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IndyGuy4KI

The History of Outpost 5

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I came across a twitter post from the KIHistory Twitter page showing a picture of an floral arrangements where they state, "Kings Island used to showcase new attractions in a large floral display outside the park entrance." The picture below taken in 1991 showing the incoming Adventure Express back where the themeing shows the track closed at the now infamous Outpost 5. 

A lot of people think Outpost 5 originated with Son of Beast, when actually Outpost 5 references back to Adventure Express instead. KIC members have been discussing this for the last several years when it comes to using the Outpost 5 name and symbol for theming of Kings Island's next coaster (now Orion.) The answer to the the origins of Outpost 5 have been right here this whole time. The picture source is @Tomkatt7's picture from his 90's thread posted back in 2009.


AE Floral Announcement.jpg

 

In addition, @Gordon Bombay in his post below gives a great explanation as well. 

Quote

 

Outpost 5 is in reference to the recordings that used to play in Adventure Express' queue line. "All aboard the express for Outpost 5." 

The loose storyline to AE was that you were boarding a mine train to that specific outpost and interspersed were reports from the "station master" who mentioned that one track was closed, one expedition had gone missing (and that the search was called off), etc. 

I think it was "track 2" that was closed (and there used be a sign reading something like "Track 2. Closed. Do not enter!" when your train entered the first tunnel. And the expedition was... the "Richards Expedition?"

Anyways, yeah, that's what Outpost 5 is in reference too on the side of Son of Beast's old station. 

Fun Fact: for years, Adventure Express had the Indiana Jones theme playing in its queue line between announcements from the "station master." This music, along with the ride's general theme, gave the distinct impression that the ride was Indiana Jones themed. However, it never was directly. Paramount's Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom (the one that features a mine cart sequence) debuted in 1984, and the final film in Paramount's series (Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade) debuted in 1989. Adventure Express opened in 1991. Paramount acquired the park in 1992/1993. 

 

 

The next time you hear a ride op say on the microphone: "Number 5 is Alive" it is not referencing SOB 2.0, Adventure Express or Kings Island. It is not related at all. 

 

Tell us your thoughts and if you know any more info about Outpost 5. Do you have any old pics of Outpost 5 or the symbol?

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I remember that floral arrangement. I thought it was the actual entrance to the ride when I was little. Haha 

Would be cool if they brought something like that back. 

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31 minutes ago, BoddaH1994 said:

I remember that floral arrangement. I thought it was the actual entrance to the ride when I was little. Haha 

Would be cool if they brought something like that back. 

In an off year with no major ride, I would love a full revamp and restoration of Adventure Express. High capacity ride that appeals to and accommodates a large number of guests. 

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19 minutes ago, Gordon Bombay said:

In an off year with no major ride, I would love a full revamp and restoration of Adventure Express. High capacity ride that appeals to and accommodates a large number of guests.  

THIS.

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Question: I heard the rumor for years about Adventure Express' ending being the way it is due to lack of funds to finish the ride. I find this hard to believe based on how close the second lift is to the station. Can anyone confirm either way?

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1 minute ago, trick track charlie said:

Question: I heard the rumor for years about Adventure Express' ending being the way it is due to lack of funds to finish the ride. I find this hard to believe based on how close the second lift is to the station. Can anyone confirm either way?

I do not believe that was the case.

Keep in mind: many Arrow mine train models (and some Arrow suspended models) feature two lift hills. Adventure Express' station sits above a ravine and the pathway features a slight rise in order to deliver riders to the station. The train descends, makes a run, climbs the lift and then goes about its course. It needs a lift hill to return to that station. 

For a long time, the prevailing rumor has been: there was more to the ride envisioned, then scrapped for budget cuts, so instead of another ride sequence, the design was modified to turn into the station. I don't believe that to be true. The ride would need a significantly taller second lift in order to complete another run and return to the station at that elevation. Not to mention, many of the early concept art designs that have popped up online over the years do not show an extended ride. 

I believe the ride exists as intended based off other Arrow models, the topography, early marketing materials, and the existing length. Any longer and it'd be a real rarity in terms of length/experience time. 

Another example to check out of the lift hill to station effect: Ninja at Magic Mountain. 

I also don't have much experience with this ride and its history, so this is just my personal assumption. @Shaggy, @TombraiderTy, @TOPGUN1993, or @gforce1994 may have some better analysis/info.

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Is the question literally asking if Adventure Express was not completed and there was supposed to be more after the final lift?

If so....

No.

Adventure Express was built as originally designed.

 

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I'd love some TLC to be given to Adventure Express. I might be wrong, but I feel like the arrows no longer pop out of the wall/ceilings in one of the tunnels anymore, and I wish they'd bring back the smoke effect and do some better lighting or effect work in the lava tunnel. 

Although, really, it's still a really fun ride. My 7-year-old son isn't a fan of roller coasters with big drops, but he loves AE. I actually took my first night ride on it with him this year and it's a really fun ride in the dark. 

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6 minutes ago, cdubbs727 said:

I'd love some TLC to be given to Adventure Express. I might be wrong, but I feel like the arrows no longer pop out of the wall/ceilings in one of the tunnels anymore, and I wish they'd bring back the smoke effect and do some better lighting or effect work in the lava tunnel. 

Although, really, it's still a really fun ride. My 7-year-old son isn't a fan of roller coasters with big drops, but he loves AE. I actually took my first night ride on it with him this year and it's a really fun ride in the dark. 

The arrows popped out in the very beginning of the season. Practically living on this coaster growing up, I had never noticed them working. By late summer this year they were back to being dormant.

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2 hours ago, Gordon Bombay said:

In an off year with no major ride, I would love a full revamp and restoration of Adventure Express. High capacity ride that appeals to and accommodates a large number of guests. 

Yeah, I agree. Also position the entrance ques so they can accommodate new flat rides in Oktoberfest.

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I love seeing stuff like this. Adventure Express is probably the most sentimental ride to me out of any park, as it was my first roller coaster. This is a coaster that holds up very well against the sands of time, as looking more run down works well with its theming. I'm quite hopeful for its future, as mine trains tend to have very long lifespans.

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Adventure Express Trivia to be taken with a grain of salt... 

I recall during winter 1999 (when Action Zone was being built) a replacement section of Adventure Express track was located in the parking lot.  I remember this because the short section of Arrow track was placed somewhat near where they were storing the track for Face/Off (Invertigo.)  I saw it with my own eyes.

I always assumed it was the zig zag section that used to have a mist effect right after you left the station.  Seems like the track looked "different" the following season (newer) so I figured that section might have rusted.  Especially since the mist effect disappeared in summer 1999.  

Never had it factually confirmed, but always assumed thats what happened.

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Funny you mention that, but I seem to recall seeing/hearing something similar back then as well.

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What the ride needs is an extended final lift hill, followed by a Carowinds Goldrusher type final helix/tunnel finale or a Silver Dollar City Thunderation swooping five finale.  Both are excellent mine train finales.   Plus rethemed to Barvaria.  

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11 hours ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

 The next time you hear a ride op say on the microphone: "Number 5 is Alive" you will know that they are referencing Adventure Express, not a SOB 2.0.

 

Tell us your thoughts and if you know any more info about Outpost 5. Do you have any old pics of Outpost 5 or the symbol?

The quote “Number 5 is Alive” has no reference to Adventure Express, Son of Beast or even Kings Island.

Simply coaster fans mistakenly connecting dots to something it’s not.

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8 minutes ago, TOPGUN1993 said:

The quote “Number 5 is Alive” has no reference to Adventure Express, Son of Beast or even Kings Island.

Simply coaster fans mistakenly connecting dots to something it’s not.

You’re right! Enthusiasts have conflated “Number 5 is Alive” with Outpost 5. I think people should go back to the source and re-examine ;)

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On November 14, 2019 at 11:00 AM, IndyGuy4KI said:

 

The next time you hear a ride op say on the microphone: "Number 5 is Alive" you will know that they are referencing Adventure Express, not a SOB 2.0.

That's not a reference to a direct quote from SHORT CIRCUIT? 

 

On November 14, 2019 at 3:25 PM, Shaggy said:

Is the question literally asking if Adventure Express was not completed and there was supposed to be more after the final lift?

If so....

No.

Adventure Express was built as originally designed.

 

I think the confusion about the final lift comes from that people can clearly tell it's building towards something, but are either too young or no longer remember what that something wasThe park really needs to restore that lava effect. Without it, guests are losing a key plot element. 

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I would love to see Adventure Express get upgraded theming. Would be awesome "off year" addition. Maybe enclose the 1st lift hill and theme the ride to an escapee from A haunted mine shaft. 

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10 hours ago, TOPGUN1993 said:

The quote “Number 5 is Alive” has no reference to Adventure Express, Son of Beast or even Kings Island.

Simply coaster fans mistakenly connecting dots to something it’s not.

Thanks, I have fixed the original post.

4 hours ago, Captain Nemo said:

Number 5 is alive was in fact alluding to 5th car of the train for Cedar Creek arrow coaster at Cedar Point. 

The 5th car on a train for CCMR? Why?

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Outpost 5 is the location of where the guy was mauled to death by the lion. Well, it was the closest guard station and mentioned( by name) in the incident report. Check out the maps in the thread about the lion attack and you'll see detailed maps and how close Outpost 5 was. Imo, this was a tasteless joke who's actual meaning has been lost over time. For reference, SOB was located on the spot where the wildlife Safari adventure once stood. The wildlife Safari is where the "trainer" was eaten alive by the lions. Thus making the direct connection to Outpost 5, explaining why it's not used anymore and why you should fear it. Adventure Express was the first to mention it and also sits near the old lot where WSA was located. A "in-house" horror story, so to speak. Lets tie Banshee into it all. Now we have a ghost out there haunting the grounds where SOB stood. Yes, a Banshee is a female spirit but the theme is still about a ghost. It's like a billboard for flight Commander in the antique car ride that says "you'll fall for these thrills!" Most people wouldn't get the connection. 

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18 hours ago, Shaggy said:

Is the question literally asking if Adventure Express was not completed and there was supposed to be more after the final lift?

If so....

No.

Adventure Express was built as originally designed.

 

Welllll I was told, A a double helix to the left and turn back into a  small hill were supposed to come after the second lift back into the station. The park decided to make the change and intensify the theme in the tunnel. 

Source: Dennis Speigal, I asked him a longg time ago at some event I wanna say it was Banshee year. The quote thats locked in my head "A lot of steel, a lot more money, for a little bit longer of a ride."

But he said it the same way you tell a five year old there is a super hero over there. Very enthusiastic guy. 

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19 minutes ago, GavPenn said:

Outpost 5 is the location of where the guy was mauled to death by the lion. Well, it was the closest guard station and mentioned( by name) in the incident report. Check out the maps in the thread about the lion attack and you'll see detailed maps and how close Outpost 5 was. Imo, this was a tasteless joke who's actual meaning has been lost over time. 

I'm sorry, but I don't believe this is correct. @KIghostguy has written extensively about that incident and can probably add more, but if you check out his article here: http://kingsislandghosts.blogspot.com/2018/01/the-untold-story-of-kings-islands-fatal.html, there is a mention of "Post 5." However, post 5 is on a hand-drawn map and is labeled as being in the Northeast corner of the preserve, towards the river and not the location of Adventure Express. The ride's audio references "Outpost 5," not "post 5." Is that a coincidence? Kind of. Is it proof of a tasteless joke? I doubt it. I can't imagine out of all the easter eggs that they could hide in the ride that they're going to reference a tragic incident. But again, @KIghostguy probably has more knowledge here. 

Also, the location of SOB's station doesn't line up with the map of "post 5." 

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14 hours ago, Shaggy said:

Adventure Express Trivia to be taken with a grain of salt... 

I recall during winter 1999 (when Action Zone was being built) a replacement section of Adventure Express track was located in the parking lot.  I remember this because the short section of Arrow track was placed somewhat near where they were storing the track for Face/Off (Invertigo.)  I saw it with my own eyes.

I always assumed it was the zig zag section that used to have a mist effect right after you left the station.  Seems like the track looked "different" the following season (newer) so I figured that section might have rusted.  Especially since the mist effect disappeared in summer 1999.  

Never had it factually confirmed, but always assumed thats what happened.

Interesting. Could thematic mist/fog really cause that much of an issue or exacerbate it? Especially considering the coaster is exposed to rain/snow year round? Thanks for always sharing awesome stories and trivia, @Shaggy!

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1 hour ago, Gordon Bombay said:

Interesting. Could thematic mist/fog really cause that much of an issue or exacerbate it? Especially considering the coaster is exposed to rain/snow year round? Thanks for always sharing awesome stories and trivia, @Shaggy!

I had the same thought. Makes me wonder if the ride was simply designed to have those sections of track replaced every few years. That would also account for why the plug was pulled on the mist. There’s no way that they wouldn’t have the foresight that the constant mist could be damaging. 

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2 hours ago, JonahWilliamson said:

Welllll I was told, A a double helix to the left and turn back into a  small hill were supposed to come after the second lift back into the station. The park decided to make the change and intensify the theme in the tunnel. 

Source: Dennis Speigal, I asked him a longg time ago at some event I wanna say it was Banshee year. The quote thats locked in my head "A lot of steel, a lot more money, for a little bit longer of a ride."

But he said it the same way you tell a five year old there is a super hero over there. Very enthusiastic guy. 

Dennis Speigel was not with the company at the time of the development and construction of Adventure Express. Both Jeff Gramke and Bill Ossim have told me the reason why it ends with a lift hill, but again, that is something I’m saving for my book.

Thanks @Gordon Bombay for linking my article! You are correct. John McCann was killed in Section 2, which was the internal name for the lion section. Post 5 was a guard tower, I believe.

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2 hours ago, JonahWilliamson said:

Welllll I was told, A a double helix to the left and turn back into a  small hill were supposed to come after the second lift back into the station. The park decided to make the change and intensify the theme in the tunnel. 

Source: Dennis Speigal, I asked him a longg time ago at some event I wanna say it was Banshee year. The quote thats locked in my head "A lot of steel, a lot more money, for a little bit longer of a ride."

But he said it the same way you tell a five year old there is a super hero over there. Very enthusiastic guy. 

With all due respect to Mr Speigel, he was not working at KI at the time of Adventure Express' development and was, as far as I know, not involved with the project.

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Well that really makes me wonder. I really hope Adventure Express is here to stay for awhile. Give me 10 more years with her.

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1 hour ago, JonahWilliamson said:

Well that really makes me wonder. I really hope Adventure Express is here to stay for awhile. Give me 10 more years with her.

The original Arrow mine ride, Runaway Mine Train at Six Flags Over Texas, is still running 53 years later. Adventure Express is 28, albeit arguably more intense and forceful than Texas'. I too hope it has years and years left in it though.

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