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Locals concerned that Kings Island is violating noise ordinances


BoddaH1994
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I guess some people can tune it out, not me.  18 years ago my wife tried to convince me I would get used to the sound of babies crying and it wouldn't bother me.   She. Was. Wrong.

I will say airplanes are much quieter than they were in the 70's and earlier.  Back then you didn't need to live anywhere near an airport and if you were in your backyard all conversation had to end until it passed.  

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8 hours ago, King Ding Dong said:

I guess some people can tune it out, not me.  18 years ago my wife tried to convince me I would get used to the sound of babies crying and it wouldn't bother me.   She. Was. Wrong.

I will say airplanes are much quieter than they were in the 70's and earlier.  Back then you didn't need to live anywhere near an airport and if you were in your backyard all conversation had to end until it passed.  

There is no safe haven in town anymore. If you need total silence you are hurting. We are a fan-family. Used to be basic 20" box fans, but now we run these at night in every bedroom.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Vie-Air-18-High-Velocity-Floor-3-Speed-Fan-Model-VA-18-Black/199917647  If there's ever a fire, we're probably screwed, but we sleep well otherwise.

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8 minutes ago, SnakePlissken said:

Next you will try and convince me Top Thrill Dragster is louder than Steel Vengeance. 

Ha.  And it was even worse on media day when it was the ONLY thing on in the park, not even music.  I remember walking by Gemini and upon hearing it thinking OMG they broke it already?

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The sound from tall coasters travel because it is above the foliage so the noise isn't baffeled.  It will travel a lot farther because of that.  Walls and trees probably wouldn't mitigate the noise very much. That said, Orion is a long way from any housing.  There might be a handful of houses that could hear some rumbling.  I heard faint rumbling when I kayaked the Little Miami so some of those houses with river frontage will probably hear it too.  I would be amazed if they could hear anything inside their houses.  In short, it seems Orion will inconvenience a few people in a very minor way.

I find his call to action in his enquirer opinion piece distasteful.  He is attempting to apply pressure to Kings Island because of something Kings Island paid his grandfather for.  Kings Island would have almost certainly have paid a premium for the property very likely for the purpose of adding some distance to buffer sound.  If his campaign is successful, it won't be good for us because it could mean restricting the rides operating hours.

Mr. Taylor also complained that Cedar Fair didn't run their plans by the community.  They don't have to.  What if the community members said no?  Then they would have a problem where none existed before.  "We want to build a $30 million coaster that will greatly benefit our business and tourism in the Cincinnati area. Let's make sure Ken's on board!"  Its absurd.

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10 hours ago, Pez said:

The sound from tall coasters travel because it is above the foliage so the noise isn't baffeled.  It will travel a lot farther because of that.  Walls and trees probably wouldn't mitigate the noise very much. That said, Orion is a long way from any housing.  There might be a handful of houses that could hear some rumbling.  I heard faint rumbling when I kayaked the Little Miami so some of those houses with river frontage will probably hear it too.  I would be amazed if they could hear anything inside their houses.  In short, it seems Orion will inconvenience a few people in a very minor way.

I find his call to action in his enquirer opinion piece distasteful.  He is attempting to apply pressure to Kings Island because of something Kings Island paid his grandfather for.  Kings Island would have almost certainly have paid a premium for the property very likely for the purpose of adding some distance to buffer sound.  If his campaign is successful, it won't be good for us because it could mean restricting the rides operating hours.

Mr. Taylor also complained that Cedar Fair didn't run their plans by the community.  They don't have to.  What if the community members said no?  Then they would have a problem where none existed before.  "We want to build a $30 million coaster that will greatly benefit our business and tourism in the Cincinnati area. Let's make sure Ken's on board!"  Its absurd.

I doubt the town will hurt their only real source of steady income over this.

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4 hours ago, CorkscrewMcPuke said:

I doubt the town will hurt their only real source of steady income over this.

You all realize KI is not Mason's biggest employer from a true financial standpoint to the City of Mason's operating budget.  But the argument can be made that having KI in their town does help other businesses indirectly...

Based on number of full time employees, they don't even rank (meanwhile Great Wolf Lodge is No. 8 in full time employees).  P&G is number one approaching almost 2,000 full-time employees and those salaries bring in more income tax revenue than all full-time and part time KI employees...

However, due to seasonal employees, KI does crack into the top 10 in income tax withheld coming in at number 8 - so 7 employers within the City of Mason provide more income to the City of Mason than Kings Island...

 

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Reading a lot of these comments, which many are incredibly one-sided, makes me think some of you have never dealt with "bad neighbors"--especially those who move in after you previously had good/great neighbors.  Did ya'll actually fully read the posted articles?

To me, the Enquirer opinion piece reflects a bit more of the above experience.  What might have been a great situation before where everyone was happy (neighbors, city, park), when KI started out is now a bit strained (at least for one of the parties).  Unfortunately verbal agreements and assurances don't hold water after new ownership.  It appears the city doesn't want to rock the boat, even admitting they don't have an enforceable ordinance (which could be interpreted as "badly written" or "if actually enforced, would have many violators", and don't they want to rock that money boat ;)).  

I for one can somewhat understand the plight of the neighbors.  Something that grates on your nerves, increasing over time, does eventually reach a breaking point.  Going the PR route to get Cedar Fair to have a conversation is a rather inexpensive "next step" before going the court route (anyone here remember Howard Ain, the Troubleshooter!).  Sure some of the statements/expectations are over the top, but that's negotiating 101...  Honestly the park may already be reaching out to acknowledge their concerns and we would never know.  

But having noise abatement efforts as part of an ongoing building process can help "keep it down" over the long haul.  Efforts could be made such that physical growth of the park does not also mean noise growth.   Getting some agreements in writing is key.  

 

 

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2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

You all realize KI is not Mason's biggest employer from a true financial standpoint to the City of Mason's operating budget.  But the argument can be made that having KI in their town does help other businesses indirectly...

Based on number of full time employees, they don't even rank (meanwhile Great Wolf Lodge is No. 8 in full time employees).  P&G is number one approaching almost 2,000 full-time employees and those salaries bring in more income tax revenue than all full-time and part time KI employees...

However, due to seasonal employees, KI does crack into the top 10 in income tax withheld coming in at number 8 - so 7 employers within the City of Mason provide more income to the City of Mason than Kings Island...

 

I doubt any of them bring as many outsiders in to spend money locally.

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5 hours ago, Maddog said:

Reading a lot of these comments, which many are incredibly one-sided, makes me think some of you have never dealt with "bad neighbors"--especially those who move in after you previously had good/great neighbors.  Did ya'll actually fully read the posted articles?

To me, the Enquirer opinion piece reflects a bit more of the above experience.  What might have been a great situation before where everyone was happy (neighbors, city, park), when KI started out is now a bit strained (at least for one of the parties).  Unfortunately verbal agreements and assurances don't hold water after new ownership.  It appears the city doesn't want to rock the boat, even admitting they don't have an enforceable ordinance (which could be interpreted as "badly written" or "if actually enforced, would have many violators", and don't they want to rock that money boat ;)).  

I for one can somewhat understand the plight of the neighbors.  Something that grates on your nerves, increasing over time, does eventually reach a breaking point.  Going the PR route to get Cedar Fair to have a conversation is a rather inexpensive "next step" before going the court route (anyone here remember Howard Ain, the Troubleshooter!).  Sure some of the statements/expectations are over the top, but that's negotiating 101...  Honestly the park may already be reaching out to acknowledge their concerns and we would never know.  

But having noise abatement efforts as part of an ongoing building process can help "keep it down" over the long haul.  Efforts could be made such that physical growth of the park does not also mean noise growth.   Getting some agreements in writing is 

The complaints are from Deerfield Township residents not Mason. So Mason is pretty much siding with Kings Island.

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8 hours ago, Maddog said:

Reading a lot of these comments, which many are incredibly one-sided, makes me think some of you have never dealt with "bad neighbors"--especially those who move in after you previously had good/great neighbors.  Did ya'll actually fully read the posted articles?

To me, the Enquirer opinion piece reflects a bit more of the above experience.  What might have been a great situation before where everyone was happy (neighbors, city, park), when KI started out is now a bit strained (at least for one of the parties).  Unfortunately verbal agreements and assurances don't hold water after new ownership.  It appears the city doesn't want to rock the boat, even admitting they don't have an enforceable ordinance (which could be interpreted as "badly written" or "if actually enforced, would have many violators", and don't they want to rock that money boat ;)).  

I for one can somewhat understand the plight of the neighbors.  Something that grates on your nerves, increasing over time, does eventually reach a breaking point.  Going the PR route to get Cedar Fair to have a conversation is a rather inexpensive "next step" before going the court route (anyone here remember Howard Ain, the Troubleshooter!).  Sure some of the statements/expectations are over the top, but that's negotiating 101...  Honestly the park may already be reaching out to acknowledge their concerns and we would never know.  

But having noise abatement efforts as part of an ongoing building process can help "keep it down" over the long haul.  Efforts could be made such that physical growth of the park does not also mean noise growth.   Getting some agreements in writing is key.  

 

 

Getting something in writing is a terrible idea for Kings Island.  Why jump to a binding agreement?  The man wrote an opinion piece in the local paper asking strangers to contact the Ohio department of agriculture on his behalf.  From what I can tell, he's invested $0 in this.  He has no appreciable leverage in the situation.  Kings Island is doing exactly what they should be doing, ignoring him.  If he manages to pull a rabbit out of his hat, deal with it at that time.  Chances are this will all blow over and we'll have forgotten about it by next season.

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15 hours ago, Maddog said:

Reading a lot of these comments, which many are incredibly one-sided, makes me think some of you have never dealt with "bad neighbors"--especially those who move in after you previously had good/great neighbors.  Did ya'll actually fully read the posted articles?

To me, the Enquirer opinion piece reflects a bit more of the above experience.  What might have been a great situation before where everyone was happy (neighbors, city, park), when KI started out is now a bit strained (at least for one of the parties).  Unfortunately verbal agreements and assurances don't hold water after new ownership.  It appears the city doesn't want to rock the boat, even admitting they don't have an enforceable ordinance (which could be interpreted as "badly written" or "if actually enforced, would have many violators", and don't they want to rock that money boat ;)).  

I for one can somewhat understand the plight of the neighbors.  Something that grates on your nerves, increasing over time, does eventually reach a breaking point.  Going the PR route to get Cedar Fair to have a conversation is a rather inexpensive "next step" before going the court route (anyone here remember Howard Ain, the Troubleshooter!).  Sure some of the statements/expectations are over the top, but that's negotiating 101...  Honestly the park may already be reaching out to acknowledge their concerns and we would never know.  

But having noise abatement efforts as part of an ongoing building process can help "keep it down" over the long haul.  Efforts could be made such that physical growth of the park does not also mean noise growth.   Getting some agreements in writing is key.  

 

 

Our house is between two rentals that weren't that way when we bought ours. There have been good and bad but I still don't have the right to tell them what they can or can't do if no law is being violated.  Mr Taylor knew in inheritance where he was next to and how much ki has grown etc if he didn't like it he could sell make good profit etc. But he has no right to tell KI what they can or can't do with their business when they obviously are in compliance with the laws and zoning etc.  

My bet he did get a meeting and it didn't go his way so he's turning to media to try again for different results of he can get people to join him. 

 

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If they don't like it they can sell? That's unfortunately a pretty sad situation to be in as a homeowner.

Mason and KI have both admitted they aren't in compliance, but it seems no action will be taken.

I thought there would be an actual discussion here about this, but clearly this site has its mind made up. 

Side note, I love rollercoasters, but hate the B&M roar. That won't get me much love around here though, just being honest.

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1 hour ago, Maddog said:

If they don't like it they can sell? That's unfortunately a pretty sad situation to be in as a homeowner.

Mason and KI have both admitted they aren't in compliance, but it seems no action will be taken.

I thought there would be an actual discussion here about this, but clearly this site has its mind made up. 

Side note, I love rollercoasters, but hate the B&M roar. That won't get me much love around here though, just being honest.

Nothing wrong with having your own opinion. I could care less about the roar or not. I thought they were going to put sand in Orion to be honest. 

The problem I have is with the person making the complaint since his father is the one who sold the land. The first article is not really clear on how many homeowners are involved in the complaint. If more homeowners were involved I would think more news outlets would be reporting the complaint.  The second problem is the comment city council made about the ordinance being outdated. I am sure it was created at the same time everyone thought 300 ft coaster were only dreams and staying at the park passed 10 was a fairy tale. In my opinion the city council has made up its mind and wants to adjust the ordinance to accommodate KI. Which is why they are not going to punish them for breaking an outdated ordinance. If the homeowners do not approve they need to vote in new leadership. 

Whats your opinion on the situation?? I agree with the whole they can just move. That is not really an option. I also agree with the ones that if they move near KI after it was built say 80’s on can’t really complain. They knew what they were getting themselves into. It’s a tough situation to be in and really depends on how many homeowners are actually complaining. 

I also disagree with Cedar Fair doesn’t listen especially since they just donated 25 acres of land to the city of Sandusky. I understand they had there own motives but to me it proves they are willing to work with the city to benefit everyone. 

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https://www.wvxu.org/post/neighbors-kings-island-please-cut-noise

Another article from WVXU, which has similar content as the Local12 article.  It does point out more than one neighbor with the complaints, also the whole issue of city boundaries, and that the best course of action is for people to work directly with the park.  

My opinion?: KI should try to do its part to be a good neighbor and keep noise down as part of ride designs and new improvements.  There's already a known issue with Diamondback's noise.  With Orion take some precautions with the design as needed.  Maybe sand filled is already spec'd in, I don't know.  Anybody have any info on this?

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1 hour ago, Maddog said:

https://www.wvxu.org/post/neighbors-kings-island-please-cut-noise

Another article from WVXU, which has similar content as the Local12 article.  It does point out more than one neighbor with the complaints, also the whole issue of city boundaries, and that the best course of action is for people to work directly with the park.  

My opinion?: KI should try to do its part to be a good neighbor and keep noise down as part of ride designs and new improvements.  There's already a known issue with Diamondback's noise.  With Orion take some precautions with the design as needed.  Maybe sand filled is already spec'd in, I don't know.  Anybody have any info on this?

Orion is not going near their houses. It’s on the opposite side of the park from Diamondback. The whole thing is a non-story.

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From my perspective, I would love to live where Mr. Taylor lives.  But I am a coaster/park enthusiast.  He is not the original landowner, but has a vested interest in his property, as do all the other homeowners in the area.

 

If his side of the story is true, it is truly a black mark on Cedar Fair/Kings Island.  He makes it sound like they have not talked to them at all.  But I have a difficult time believing that.  Locals should expect the park to continue to expand and grow.  But, I can see the noise complaints.  If the park were to do a good will gesture and insulate his house, put in new windows etc, it would be nice, but the next thing you know, all homeowners would want that.  This would set a dangerous precedent.

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You can see if compromise can be reached but it's not sad to move if you don't like something. We can't control what others do, we're moving because we can control that.  But our house is just that a house, we're not attached to the point we'd rather be miserable then move. 

 

It's really up to the people to decide what they'll put up with. Maybe 50 years ago people wouldn't have imagined 260-400+ ft tall steel coasters in existence but it's been no secret in the last 20+ years so you should know that people will keep innovating taller faster etc as long as guests are willing to ride it.  

I can see his family attachment to his father's estate and why he's upset about noise he can make his requests but they should be within reason and a big business brining in the tax revenue is going to get the better deal. Would he rather have to pay higher land taxes and such for a quieter spot? 

Would a sound barrier closer to then help? Or would the sound travel above still? 

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