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Coronavirus Impacting Theme Parks


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Some good points have been presented here.  An interesting model to look at right now is the SIX Memberships.  When purchased one commits to a full year of monthly payments and then continues theoretically in perpetuity until cancelled with 2 months notice (I think). So those long time SIX membership holders have the option at this point to notify SIX they would like to cancel.   I wonder how many are doing so and how that will impact SIX.

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Masks are required at the parks right now. We have hashed out your argument multiple times and there is no need to do it again. At this point in time, if you don't want to wear a mask and think t

It is really quite simple: If you do not want to wear a mask at a place of business that requires a mask, don't go. Please understand though- DO NOT cause a scene because an employee has asked yo

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26 minutes ago, medford said:

Been too long since I've really dived into a balance sheet, so don't count me as an expert, but:

 

They list long term debt as 2.6 Bil

They list property and infrastructure value @ 3.7 Bil

Someone smarter than I can break it down further, but I'm fairly certain that if they declared brankruptcy they would fetch a good amount of money for the land and buildings, steel, etc... that they own.

 

This will sting and hurt their bottom line, no doubt about that, I expect their dividend will be cut, if not eliminated soon.  However, at some point this will pass.  While many are hurting in a bad way, there are many that are sitting at home not spending money on anything, they will be looking for places like KI to not only spend that money, but to get the kids and family out of the house and doing something "normal" and fun again.  I'd even venture to say, that if every park in the US opened back up June 1st, that a place like KI would see an immediate effect much quicker than a place like Disney.  Disney is the kind of place many plan a year plus for, KI most just do on a "whim".  While Disney will recover quicker in the long run, CF could do better in the immediate short run depending on when things open back up.  At some point, businesses will open back up, even if Covid-19 isn't fully expunged, there is only so long that people can sit around not being productive.

And how many shuttered amusement parks around the country and world are sitting as vacant shells of their past? 

https://www.cnet.com/pictures/abandoned-amusement-parks/2/

https://blog.cheapism.com/abandoned-theme-park-14552/

Why hasn't anyone bought the steel or the land and developed?  How long has Geauga Lake land been for sale? 

Once you take salvage value, depreciation, amortization, etc. into account, most really aren't worth much if not operating...calling the accountants on the forum...Like a new car rolling off the lot, you cannot sell Diamondback for what it was purchased for...

Yeah it may be a lot of land, but given what we are going thru, the next issue will be all the shuttered buildings and stuff and an excess of property for sale.

I'll leave the most recent balance sheet here...how exactly do they plan to pay off debt with no income?  They list total assets at $2.58B and total debt at $2.15B...

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Just want to point out Long-term debt is not Total Liabilities, but one class of Liabilities.  This is why I posted Total Liabilities.  Perhaps other classes of liabilities are not really liabilities?  I defer.

I find it ironic we are now talking about bulldozing the park.  :lol:

 

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So, I just want to make a point to the park closing all season, it doesn't make any economic sense, the park is going to try and get any and all business that they can once this passes, Dr Anthony Fauci a few days ago indicated that just because this thing could be around til August or July, did not mean the Restrictions would apply during that time. Another important point to make as to why this doesn't make any sense is that people are still working at the park and the parks departments are still training new employees and continue to do so in anticipation of the season, so there is no intention of closing the park down for the entire season, a small delay, yes that is completely possible, but KI will not miss out on the entire season. 

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7 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

^A lot of things going on right now make no economic sense in the interest of public health.  But there are different perspectives in which those decisions do make sense. 

We're not talking about a restaurant, the entire season is 9 months (Including Haunt + Winterfest) Cedar Fair will not miss the opportunity to make money off of being able to open for it. Because when they do open, people are going to look for a place to go after cooped up forever. KI is the perfect place for that and CF and KI know that, they won't miss that opportunity. 

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On 3/19/2020 at 11:34 AM, CheetahDrew said:

So, I just want to make a point to the park closing all season, it doesn't make any economic sense, the park is going to try and get any and all business that they can once this passes, Dr Anthony Fauci a few days ago indicated that just because this thing could be around til August or July, did not mean the Restrictions would apply during that time. Another important point to make as to why this doesn't make any sense is that people are still working at the park and the parks departments are still training new employees and continue to do so in anticipation of the season, so there is no intention of closing the park down for the entire season, a small delay, yes that is completely possible, but KI will not miss out on the entire season. 

While it may be true they are anticipating opening and are currently training new employees, that is subject to change - lots of things have changed drastically over a rolling 24 hour period...Dollywood was going to open and then almost last minute didn't.  PGA tour was not going to stop and had round one of a tournament completed and then cancelled it.  NCAA college conference tournaments started and then stopped.  Everything is subject to change right now...

It is too simplistic of an approach to say "it doesn't make any economic sense to not open the parks".  We have no idea what "bailouts" are going to come from the federal government as they haven't been developed yet.  We have no idea if CF has some "catastrophic insurance policy" to cover the event of an entire season not opening because of some world crisis (and if they have such a policy it would only be applicable if they do not open).  Plus there are tons of accounting and tax regulations and other situations that we are not privy to that a company will look to use to the best of their advantage.  There is a reason so many corporations do not pay taxes...No doubt Cedar Fair has lobbyists that will be pushing legislators on multiple fronts - one will be bailouts if they cannot open this year, and another front will be lobbying to allow them to open as soon as possible to try to salvage the season.  Time will tell which lobbying efforts win out, if any...

If one of the bailouts for example is that seasonal attractions that do not open in 2020 will have debt interest forgiven or delayed or a bailout to "make them whole", but if they re-open in 2020 then the payments begin and/or bailouts are significantly reduced, it might make economic sense for a park not to open this season...You don't think that will happen - well college students don't pay on government student loans and interest doesn't start until they leave college...I know it isn't quite the same, but we have no idea what bailouts are going to happen in these unprecedented times.

Cedar Fair and other companies will be crunching the numbers as it stands right now and as new information becomes available.  I am sure they have developed a date that says if the parks don't open by (insert date here), then financially the start up costs to get going will not exceed anticipated revenue.  They may even have clauses in debt service payment related to making payments after every X number of days in operation so that could drive a decision...  

At a certain point it will simply be easier to remain closed and simply have season passes for 2020 valid in 2021.  Any opening this year will inevitably create so many scenarios and requests for full refunds or pro-rated or whatever for those that already bought passes.  Sometimes a simple sit it out and reboot next year makes the most sense...

If the millennial generation keeps this up, then the delay and closings will be extended...https://news.yahoo.com/corona-corona-coronavirus-pandemic-doesnt-133416655.html  Every day you wake up to articles of the younger generation doing this and defying orders... we have members on this forum that still traveled on a plane for spring break in the wake of all of this...

Orders and declarations passed because of this virus could allow the government to take over hotels and other areas for triage or other staging grounds to deal with the sick once hospitals are beyond capacity because people are defying orders to maintain separation...an amusement park parking lot would make an ideal location for one of these temporary centers...kinda hard to open a park when the parking lot is not available... 

In these unprecedented times, things may not make sense based on looking at it from a simplistic, single sided approach, but when given all the information, companies will chart the best course they feel makes sense given all the variables and other items at their disposal, many of which we will never be privy to...

Assume the park will not open, and then when it does, you can be pleasantly surprised and elated and happy and excited.  There are more important issues right now than opening amusement parks...

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19 minutes ago, CheetahDrew said:

We're not talking about a restaurant, the entire season is 9 months (Including Haunt + Winterfest) Cedar Fair will not miss the opportunity to make money off of being able to open for it. Because when they do open, people are going to look for a place to go after cooped up forever. KI is the perfect place for that and CF and KI know that, they won't miss that opportunity. 

What makes you think I'm talking about a restaurant?

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Uncertainty surrounds everything right now.

When the parks finally open, it may be in a reduced capacity as there is no way to predict how many will be coming through the gates.

The fear of the virus will continue to spread long after businesses open back up.

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43 minutes ago, Browntggrr said:

Uncertainty surrounds everything right now.

When the parks finally open, it may be in a reduced capacity as there is no way to predict how many will be coming through the gates.

The fear of the virus will continue to spread long after businesses open back up.

Those were my thoughts exactly. I think the main concern right now is trying to make sure that if someone needs a hospital bed there is one available. 

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3 minutes ago, chad_1138 said:

Indiana has just extended school closures until May 1 (at least).  Closures were originally until April 13.

And South Dearborn Schools in Indiana already called the rest of the school year as remote learning...

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37 minutes ago, flightoffear1996 said:

Those were my thoughts exactly. I think the main concern right now is trying to make sure that if someone needs a hospital bed there is one available. 

Well there are not enough.   Hospitals these days run very close to capacity as a normal course of business.  They have what is called a census each morning that gathers what hospitals have available beds.  My mother is actually part of those meetings in St. Louis and there are not many in normal times.  
 

So......what is being done about that?   Not sure the Carnival Discovery can make it up the Ohio River to Cincy and is going to have a tougher time getting to CBus.  
 

Beds are not the real issue, it is ventilators/respirators, PPE and staff.   I see talk but not action.

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Well there are not enough.   Hospitals these days run very close to capacity as a normal course of business.  They have what is called a census each morning that gathers what hospitals have available beds.  My mother is actually part of those meetings in St. Louis and there are not many in normal times.  
 
So......what is being done about that?   Not sure the Carnival Discovery can make it up the Ohio River to Cincy and is going to have a tougher time getting to CBus.  
 
Beds are not the real issue, it is ventilators/respirators, PPE and staff.   I see talk but not action.
Large hospitals have become tertiary care centers. Smaller hospitals have become less crowded as more complex care has moved to the larger centers.
As such, smaller hospitals may have the beds but not the staff. For nursing, there are only so many patients that can be cared for on a shift (ratio). Same with other providers...be it respiratory therapists, housekeeping (infection control), dietary, clinical engineering (maintenance of equipment) and equipment/supply chain management.
It's not like the tv dramas at all. Doctors rarely do the things you see them do. Nurses are much more hands on and front line.
All that to say...you can't just snap your fingers and have ventilators, blood pressure cuffs, thermometer probes, gloves, gowns, masks, food and most importantly STAFF appear out of nowhere. The steps being taken are appropriate but it takes time. Thinking otherwise is pure foolishness.
Even if 500000 vents were to appear overnight, with a critical shortage of nurses and respiratory therapists, not to mention doctors, they will sit idle.
The military and civilian ships are q good idea for port cities that have a huge population. I don't think anyone in their right mind would think they would be used inland. But again, you will not have people to staff what we have, much less what is going to be added to the strained system.

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21 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

Well there are not enough.   Hospitals these days run very close to capacity as a normal course of business.  They have what is called a census each morning that gathers what hospitals have available beds.  My mother is actually part of those meetings in St. Louis and there are not many in normal times.  
 

So......what is being done about that?   Not sure the Carnival Discovery can make it up the Ohio River to Cincy and is going to have a tougher time getting to CBus.  
 

Beds are not the real issue, it is ventilators/respirators, PPE and staff.   I see talk but not action.

Beds are a very real issue. Yes we suffer from a lack of ventilators, and it is a dire situation, but not every COVID19 patient needs a vent, and we will still have normal medical emergencies during the pandemic, heart attacks, strokes, general illness such as appendicitis, car crashes, cancer, you name it. These "normal" patients cause a 75-125% occupancy rate at hospitals.  Now you are adding the COVID19 patients on top of that. At my wives hospital they are running 65% capacity as of this morning with zero elective procedures for the past 3 days.  She was in a meeting this am where they were/are deciding what types of patients went where to help with the case load when the surge starts. 

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2 minutes ago, PilotDude said:

Beds are a very real issue. Yes we suffer from a lack of ventilators, and it is a dire situation, but not every COVID19 patient needs a vent, and we will still have normal medical emergencies during the pandemic, heart attacks, strokes, general illness such as appendicitis, car crashes, cancer, you name it. These "normal" patients cause a 75-125% occupancy rate at hospitals.  Now you are adding the COVID19 patients on top of that. At my wives hospital they are running 65% capacity as of this morning with zero elective procedures for the past 3 days.  She was in a meeting this am where they were/are deciding what types of patients went where to help with the case load when the surge starts. 

Which is why I mentioned earlier that the Orders and Declarations passed because of this virus could allow the government to take over hotels and other areas for triage or other staging grounds to deal with the sick once hospitals are beyond capacity...an amusement park parking lot would make an ideal location for one of these temporary centers after the hotel beds are fully utilized...they are big and flat and easy access from interstates and accessible by medical helicopter and if this doesn't get under control soon, we will certainly see this start to happen...

And it will be kinda hard to open a park when the parking lot is not available to a government controlled operation...

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2 minutes ago, King Ding Dong said:

I didn't phrase that well. The physical mattress part is what I meant, as a society we can come up with beds easily, they may not be fancy hospital types with a remote, but I can donate a couple of twins in an emergency.  Better than the floor. 
 

@disco2000  but the potholes......:P

The government is going to be paying for lots of things it wasn't expecting to.  I am sure CF will negotiate a repave as part of the negotiation:P

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I didn't phrase that well. The physical mattress part is what I meant, as a society we can come up with beds easily, they may not be fancy hospital types with a remote, but I can donate a couple of twins in an emergency.  Better than the floor. 
 
[mention=8370]disco2000[/mention]  but the potholes......
In the medical arena, "beds" refer to available rooms. That is why a patient might be in a (physical) bed, but might be boarding in the ED, PACU or even hallway until a bed (room) becomes available. Beds may take a while to open because someone died and a family is driving in to see the body before it goes to the morgue, or there isn't a housekeeper to clean the room, or the room is clean but nursing is short staffed so the floor is not accepting patients at the moment.

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An email response from CP regarding opening posted on the similar thread on pointbuzz.  Not much to see, but here you go.

Spoiler

Thank you for contacting Cedar Point.

Cedar Point is currently scheduled to open to the public on Saturday, May 9th, as planned. Any pre-season special events, such as our Just for Fun Weekend and the Platinum Pass previews, are also scheduled to take place on their planned dates. We are not issuing refunds at this time.

As always, we maintain close relationships with local, state, national and international public health authorities. We take their guidance when additional preventive measures are deemed necessary. 

As we are learning, this entire situation is fluid and changes not just from day to day, but from hour to hour. We will keep our guests up-to-date on changes as they occur. Any critical information to be shared will be found on our website and/or social media pages. You can also sign up for our newsletter at www.cedarpoint.com/profile/register for news delivered right to your inbox.

Best Regards,

~~ Cedar Point Admissions and Guest Services Teams

There are other unsourced claims that CP has cancelled overtime for staff preparing for opening.  But that is worth what you paid for it.  

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Which is why I mentioned earlier that the Orders and Declarations passed because of this virus could allow the government to take over hotels and other areas for triage or other staging grounds to deal with the sick once hospitals are beyond capacity...an amusement park parking lot would make an ideal location for one of these temporary centers after the hotel beds are fully utilized...they are big and flat and easy access from interstates and accessible by medical helicopter and if this doesn't get under control soon, we will certainly see this start to happen...
And it will be kinda hard to open a park when the parking lot is not available to a government controlled operation...
And when the current medical facilities are understaffed, who is going to staff the parking lot/hotel hospital temporary facilities? It's also time to have the conversation about health care workers being granted hazard pay.

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22 minutes ago, BeeastFarmer said:

And when the current medical facilities are understaffed, who is going to staff the parking lot/hotel hospital temporary facilities? It's also time to have the conversation about health care workers being granted hazard pay.

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This may answer part of your question as to how they could staff it in a parking lot...I am sure the conversation about hazard pay will be a topic of discussion as we work thru this...

15 hours ago, Waltny said:

As for the military, I did 14 years active duty between the Marine Corp and Army. In my time in the the Army, I worked in the medical field as a medical equipment repairer. I got to work at the highest level at the US Army depot in Utah and it was what I did there that is important to the story at hand. Most NG and AR do not have organic medical repair'er and when we ramped up for OEF and OIF those unit deployed heavily and we sent contact teams out over 22 midwestern and mountain west states. I can tell you that there are well trained members that are sitting on 100+ bed hospitals that could go up in a day and be fully operational. I also know that there are multiple stored hospitals that sit ready in connex boxes ready to go(well save an inservice inspection and the consumables brought up to date) that could rival some country hospitals for what they could offer. IF.... IF the NG or AR were to be called up for reasons such as this you should consider yourself blessed that we have resources to do it with and most of these folks already work that profession in their regular life...

 

 

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So by removing the national guard folks from the current hospitals will exacerbate the shortage in the existing facilities. I work in a large academic medical center and have teaching affiliations and several other hospitals and the national guard employees are few and far between.

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1 hour ago, disco2000 said:

Which is why I mentioned earlier that the Orders and Declarations passed because of this virus could allow the government to take over hotels and other areas for triage or other staging grounds to deal with the sick once hospitals are beyond capacity...an amusement park parking lot would make an ideal location for one of these temporary centers after the hotel beds are fully utilized...they are big and flat and easy access from interstates and accessible by medical helicopter and if this doesn't get under control soon, we will certainly see this start to happen...

And it will be kinda hard to open a park when the parking lot is not available to a government controlled operation...

Google "FEMA camps" if you need some conspiracies.

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I think we might have about two weeks and if the United States model follows Chinas the curve should flatten. Here is to praying for the everyone involved in treating,and finding treatment for this. Also to our leaders that they support us and make the best decisions to protect us. 

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