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Coronavirus Impacting Theme Parks


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1 minute ago, Joshua said:

May I ask what sources you use for your information and why you think the precautions we've taken haven't contributed to keeping the death toll below expectations?

I did not say that our precautions have not contributed to not getting it. I am talking about the death rate. There are NO precautions that will affect the death rate because that is only figured from people that got it. These are two completely different things. If 100 people got it or 1,000,000 people got it, the death rate will be the same low number after this is done. No reason to not take personal precautions to not get it at all. I don't want it either. Just no need to fear the death rate unless you have a condition that puts you at higher risk. 

 

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Masks are required at the parks right now. We have hashed out your argument multiple times and there is no need to do it again. At this point in time, if you don't want to wear a mask and think t

It is really quite simple: If you do not want to wear a mask at a place of business that requires a mask, don't go. Please understand though- DO NOT cause a scene because an employee has asked yo

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46 minutes ago, jensenracing77 said:

I know I am ready for it to open. The more and more information coming out, this has been WAY overblown. I would be willing to bet my season passes that after this is all said and done, maybe another year roughly, we will see the death rate here in the US will be right close to the same amount as the flu bug and very likely less. It is for sure more contagious and obviously nobody wants sick in any way but it is not looking like the killer we were told it was.   

Hope you're right...but as long as every passing day is another 9/11's worth of American deaths, I'm good with waiting.

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5 hours ago, HandsUp said:

Amid all the projections I don't see how they factor in people's willingness to go to the park. Sure you have some that don't see this virus as real at all and I'm sure they'll be there...then those that think careful distancing is enough, etc...but there are plenty (myself included) who have simply invested too much into staying safe at this point to risk it all for a few fun hours at the park. I just don't see how, short of a massive leap in medical assurances, they can project how many would show up if they open any time soon.

That is why places like Universal sent out a survey - to find out how long people plan to avoid gatherings after they are allowed to open and under what operating conditions would they feel comfortable attending.  It simply becomes a data point for them to consider.  If 99% or some percentage they deem is too high says they will stay away for 3 months, that will likely influence their decision on when to re-open.

But as has been mentioned earlier in the thread - they will have to limit entry into the park to comply with social distancing requirements.  

How does the park determine who gets in operating at a reduced capacity - pass holders first, daily admission, or private events?  They couldn't do it first come, first serve as no way social distancing would be followed.  Think line jumping is an issue now, wait until there is six feet between people...Do they kick people out and revoke their pass for violating social distancing?

Do they divide the alphabet into the days and those with a last name A through C are allowed on Mondays, D through F on Tuesday, etc.?  What about based on number of miles away from the park - anyone greater than 35 miles will not be admitted?  Or only those living in Ohio?  However they decide to cap the capacity people will be ticked...

 

4 hours ago, jensenracing77 said:

I know I am ready for it to open. The more and more information coming out, this has been WAY overblown. I would be willing to bet my season passes that after this is all said and done, maybe another year roughly, we will see the death rate here in the US will be right close to the same amount as the flu bug and very likely less. It is for sure more contagious and obviously nobody wants sick in any way but it is not looking like the killer we were told it was.   

and yet, in just 48 days, COVID-19 has killed more in the US than the flu did for the entire flu season last year (2018-2019)...so if you are betting your passes for right now, this virus season...you just lost...:P

And once a vaccine is out like there is for the flu, then yes the death rate may be around the same as the flu annually, or potentially even less if this thing doesn't have mutations and a vaccine can be developed that is good for more than one season like we have for measles...but we are not to that point yet...

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2 hours ago, jensenracing77 said:

I know I am ready for it to open. The more and more information coming out, this has been WAY overblown. I would be willing to bet my season passes that after this is all said and done, maybe another year roughly, we will see the death rate here in the US will be right close to the same amount as the flu bug and very likely less. It is for sure more contagious and obviously nobody wants sick in any way but it is not looking like the killer we were told it was.   

The United States is currently running a fatality rate of 5.6%, 837k cases, 47k dead, and 76k confirmed recovered.  The fatality rate is likely high but all three numbers are low, for instance more and more evidence is showing that just about every country is under counting the deaths.  28,000 missing deaths, plus we have the issue with the fact that not every confirmed case has recovered.  People who are not sick enough to get tested or have seemingly no symptoms is throwing off the number of confirmed cases, and the number of people who recovered at home is also not included in those figures.

Getting accurate numbers in the middle of an outbreak like this is difficult.  But we already know this is a multitude more deadly than the flu.  Even cutting the fatality rate in half to 2.8% we are left with a figure that is 28x higher then the flu which only kills around 0.1% of the people who become infected.

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40 minutes ago, Kenban said:

The United States is currently running a fatality rate of 5.6%, 837k cases, 47k dead, and 76k confirmed recovered.  The fatality rate is likely high but all three numbers are low, for instance more and more evidence is showing that just about every country is under counting the deaths.  28,000 missing deaths, plus we have the issue with the fact that not every confirmed case has recovered.  People who are not sick enough to get tested or have seemingly no symptoms is throwing off the number of confirmed cases, and the number of people who recovered at home is also not included in those figures.

Getting accurate numbers in the middle of an outbreak like this is difficult.  But we already know this is a multitude more deadly than the flu.  Even cutting the fatality rate in half to 2.8% we are left with a figure that is 28x higher then the flu which only kills around 0.1% of the people who become infected.

Your figures ignore the fact that studies have already been carried out suggesting our actual number of cases have been between 50-80 times higher than the actual number that have been tested positive. So the death rate is presumed even by scientists to be way, way below 2.8%.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/04/20/coronavirus-antibody-testing-shows-la-county-outbreak-is-up-to-55-times-bigger-than-reported-cases.html

https://www.foxnews.com/science/third-blood-samples-massachusetts-study-coronavirus

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But we cannot get caught up on a percentage figure either. 

Regardless of what the final death percentage turns out to be, the total number of deaths does not change and that will be the driving factor going forward.

As you point out, new studies are suggesting that COVID-19 has infected 50-85% of the US population of 330 million, which could equate to a death rate if nobody else dies would be 0.04% - that is well below the flu death percentage.  However. that would be 132,000 deaths, which ironically is in the range of the projected COVID-19 death counts made back in March...

Last flu season in the US resulted in 34,200 deaths from a total of 35.5 million infected.  That means it infected roughly 10% of the population and the death rate was 0.1%.

So from a death percentage basis, it may look like the flu is deadlier, but from a total death count, COVID-19 is deadlier...it is the relationship between the infectious rate, total number infected, and total number deaths that will ultimately determine when we return to normal.

As I mentioned earlier, in just 48 days, COVID-19 has killed more in the US than the flu did for the entire flu season last year (2018-2019)...regardless of what the death percentage turns out to be, this stat doesn't change...

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1 hour ago, Kenban said:

The United States is currently running a fatality rate of 5.6%, 837k cases, 47k dead, and 76k confirmed recovered.  The fatality rate is likely high but all three numbers are low, for instance more and more evidence is showing that just about every country is under counting the deaths.  28,000 missing deaths, plus we have the issue with the fact that not every confirmed case has recovered.  People who are not sick enough to get tested or have seemingly no symptoms is throwing off the number of confirmed cases, and the number of people who recovered at home is also not included in those figures.

Getting accurate numbers in the middle of an outbreak like this is difficult.  But we already know this is a multitude more deadly than the flu.  Even cutting the fatality rate in half to 2.8% we are left with a figure that is 28x higher then the flu which only kills around 0.1% of the people who become infected.

There have been many factors that have been proven wrong or missing to come up with your 5.6%. You are not know to know for at least another year but the death rate is going WAY down as more information is gathered. 

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2 hours ago, disco2000 said:

 

 

and yet, in just 48 days, COVID-19 has killed more in the US than the flu did for the entire flu season last year (2018-2019)...so if you are betting your passes for right now, this virus season...you just lost...

 

Where did you learn math? The number of total deaths each one has is not the death rate. More people will have this virus than the flu bug likely so obviously more people will die in total. That does not mean it is more deadly, just that it is more contagious 

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19 hours ago, jensenracing77 said:

Where did you learn math? The number of total deaths each one has is not the death rate. More people will have this virus than the flu bug likely so obviously more people will die in total. That does not mean it is more deadly, just that it is more contagious 

And I could ask why you didn't catch the sarcasm :P ....and why you didn't see I agreed with you...

In all seriousness though, read my statement again.  I assume you are talking about my "so if you are betting your passes for right now, this virus season...you just lost" statement, which was sarcasm because as it stands right now, the death rate is higher for covid than the flu...right now is the key phrase:P

I know you also said when it is all said and done, which is why I followed up in the next paragraph and said you are probably right about the death rate - um I agreed with you...so obviously my math education is at least as high as yours:P 

We both agree that regardless of what the death rate turns out to be, this has killed more people in a shorter amount of time than the flu, and may kill more people each year than the flu until a vaccine is found.  Death count stats doesn't change (except for when they do because of a lag in the reporting process, but we digress LOL)..

However, the death rate you are talking about is the death rate the media will use to report and this is calculated as a percentage of number of deaths in relation to the number of known or assumed infected.  Keep in mind there is higher math called statistics, and from a statistical standpoint, the death rate is calculated differently.  From a statistical analysis, statisticians will normalize the data so that a comparison can be made over different time periods and populations.  This death rate is calculated as number of deaths per 100,000 population.  This population number is every person, whether they were infected or not.  This is how this virus will be compared to the Spanish Flu for example because the population was a lot different then than now.    So from a true statistical standpoint, the death rate when calculated per 100,000 population will probably be higher than the regular flu, at least until a vaccine is available...but you can still keep your passes LOL.

To date, the US COVID-19 total deaths stand at 46,771 individuals have died, which is 53 days since our first diagnosed patient.  The 2018-2019 flu total deaths stand at 34,200 individuals died.  Those total death counts do not change regardless of the death rate, so a virus that is more contagious with a lower death rate can kill more people than a less contagious virus with a higher death rate.  Simple math can prove that.

I have also repeatedly posted whenever someone tries to use the death rate number as an argument, that regardless of what the death percentage (death rate) turns out to be, the total number of people dead is a number that doesn't change.  Real people with real names have died regardless of the death rate.

My math education is just fine, and if you paid any attention to my other posts, you would know that.  I am fully aware that the death count is a summation of total number of people that died, you know simple addition.  Death rate is a percentage that involves addition and division and some multiplication to turn it into a percentage...:P

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47 minutes ago, bjcolglazier said:

Whenever the park opens, I think the smoking sections will be busy...two countries, months apart, have come to the same conclusion.

https://www.rt.com/news/486605-french-study-nicotine-resist-coronavirus/

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202002/15/WS5e472d79a310128217277b8e.html

They will still have to wear the face masks though:P

image.png                                 image.png       

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The Florence Aquatic Center is the latest summer swimming attraction deciding not to open this year.  This center contains a lazy river, competition pool, zero depth pool that is ADA accessible, two spray grounds, a spiral and  speed slides, sunbathing areas, shelters, funbrellas, bathhouse (including family restrooms) and concessions area.  Non-resident single memberships are $225 and family memberships are $410.  Pass holders can either get a refund or transfer the pass to 2021.  They also cancelled their Memorial Day parade.

 

Meanwhile in Florida, similar to Cedar Fair representatives on the Ohio Governor's re-open Task Force, representatives of Disney and Universal are on the Florida Governor's re-open Task Force. 

A lot of details are still being kept tight, but Universal has strongly hinted that attendance will be capped and it will be a phased reopening for “Florida State residents, then national and then international visitors last.”...  If KI follows suit, imagine all the ticked off Kentucky and Indiana pass holders, many of which by mileage would be closer to KI than many Ohio residents...I bet KI staying closed all year is looking better to those outside of Ohio now:P

On a Disney forum, supposedly a Disney employee leaked a re-opening document called Secure Circuit Protocol, indicates Disney would re-open at a greatly reduced capacity capping number of guests and without parades, castle shows, character meet-n-greets, fireworks shows, etc.  In addition, rides would be operated at reduced capacity and social distancing enforced and would include health checks of every guest at security and a waiver each guest would have to sign clearing Disney of any liability for potential exposure to coronavirus...

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18 hours ago, bjcolglazier said:

Whenever the park opens, I think the smoking sections will be busy...two countries, months apart, have come to the same conclusion.

https://www.rt.com/news/486605-french-study-nicotine-resist-coronavirus/

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202002/15/WS5e472d79a310128217277b8e.html

Some symptoms like coughing are a normal part of long term smoking though. So while a person that doesn't smoke may go to the doc for a cough that has developed, smokers may figure it's normal for them. And given it's going to be a trial with nicotine patches if approved smoking wouldn't be required.

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17 hours ago, disco2000 said:

They will still have to wear the face masks though:P

image.png                                 image.png       

I bet at the rate that it's going, 1st and 2nd degree burns are going to see an increase.

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If it comes down to Kings Island opening only for Ohio residents, or staying closed all year, I hope for the latter.  Not sorry.  It isn’t fair to those of us outside of Ohio that contribute thousands upon thousands of dollars per year to Cedar Fair.  I’m going to be an ass about it.

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24 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

If it comes down to Kings Island opening only for Ohio residents, or staying closed all year, I hope for the latter.  Not sorry.  It isn’t fair to those of us outside of Ohio that contribute thousands upon thousands of dollars per year to Cedar Fair.  I’m going to be an ass about it.

That would also mean that about 4,000 people (Including me and many others on this forum.) will be out of a job until whenever it is they reopen.

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51 minutes ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

If it comes down to Kings Island opening only for Ohio residents, or staying closed all year, I hope for the latter.  Not sorry.  It isn’t fair to those of us outside of Ohio that contribute thousands upon thousands of dollars per year to Cedar Fair.  I’m going to be an ass about it.

What about all those jobs that the park will provide? What about all the money the park could make versus being closed? You seem like your pretty entitled, I mean you did post you would violate what your state says to go to Kings Island so you must not truly not care about anything but yourself. How about you jump off your high horse since your more important the hundreds of jobs the park will provide to people truly in need... So ya be an ass about it, a jackass

 

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1 hour ago, LovinMeSomeBanshee said:

If it comes down to Kings Island opening only for Ohio residents, or staying closed all year, I hope for the latter.  Not sorry.  It isn’t fair to those of us outside of Ohio that contribute thousands upon thousands of dollars per year to Cedar Fair.  I’m going to be an ass about it.

Well if they open, all of the out of state folks adamant the park would open this year do get their wish...they just can't attend:P

Now people are starting to realize the concerns brought up throughout this thread about how could a season pass park like KI realistically open up and not tick off pass holders in the process due to having to deal with social distancing...maybe it is better to stay closed and tick everyone off evenly than to have your pass be treated differently because of where you live^_^...and if from a financial standpoint it is also a win, so be it...

As you are proving, there are a lot of entitled people out there when it comes to a season pass...and since you have publicly announced you would violate any State Order to attend KI opening day, someone will turn you in, whether it is someone on this forum or Nosy Nancy walking the lot looking for out-of-state plates or someone seeing your FaceBook post bragging that you are at KI..as the sheriff here has said many times - he has plenty of room in his jail for flagrant violators of the Order...

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7 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

Well if they open, all of the out of state folks adamant the park would open this year do get their wish...they just can't attend:P

Now people are starting to realize the concerns brought up throughout this thread about how could a season pass park like KI realistically open up and not tick off pass holders in the process due to having to deal with social distancing...maybe it is better to stay closed and tick everyone off evenly than to have your pass be treated differently because of where you live^_^...and if from a financial standpoint it is also a win, so be it...

As you are proving, there are a lot of entitled people out there when it comes to a season pass...and since you have publicly announced you would violate any State Order to attend KI opening day, someone will turn you in, whether it is someone on this forum or Nosy Nancy walking the lot looking for out-of-state plates or someone seeing your FaceBook post showing off that you are at KI..as the sheriff here has said many times - he has plenty of room in his jail for flagrant violators of the Order...

This is a post I can get behind 100%

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An amusement park is supposed to be a fun carefree day away from reality.   Who wants to spend the day at an amusement park wearing a mask, being afraid to touch anything and being afraid to be within 6 feet of any other person? Not to mention The unpleasant experience A reduced capacity rides gives  
 

Additionally, these parks are going to have the added cost of their fantasy health checks and attempting to distance people from each other.  Temperature guns can read a lower temperature if they’re not held close enough to ones for head. So any scanning done that way is useless
 

Even if they don’t limit attendance, a significant number of people are not going to want to attend.   Probably enough people are going to stay away that these parts are going to struggle to be profitable if they operate. Cedar Fair is already giving away a year of season pass revenue.  
 

It may be better for The bottom line, and definitely public health, just to stay closed for the season.   

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An amusement park is supposed to be a fun carefree day away from reality.   Who wants to spend the day at an amusement park wearing a mask, being afraid to touch anything and being afraid to be within 6 feet of any other person? Not to mention The unpleasant experience A reduced capacity rides gives     Additionally, these parks are going to have the added cost of their fantasy health checks and attempting to distance people from each other.  Temperature guns can read a lower temperature if they’re not held close enough to ones for head. So any scanning done that way is useless   Even if they don’t limit attendance, a significant number of people are not going to want to attend.   Probably enough people are going to stay away that these parts are going to struggle to be profitable if they operate. Cedar Fair is already giving away a year of season pass revenue.     It may be better for The bottom line, and definitely public health, just to stay closed for the season.     

 

 

 

 

 

 

So many things in there that I disagree with, however, I’ll focus on one. By the time parks can open, a lot of people will be fed up with hiding in there houses for months. You already can see it now. They would love to visit a amusement park for change. And for the people who still would be afraid to go out (which I understand why and the park wouldn’t force anyone to attend obviously) if getting the parks to be as safe as possible is what would get people to attend, Kings Island, along with many other parks could pull this off. Here are some different ideas parks could implement for people to feel safe.  

- Provide free hand sanitizer to all guests  

- Provide hand washing stations to all guests

- Provide face masks to all guests

- Use TVs in queues to educate guests about CDC guidelines

- Spray or clean all public areas of the park with disinfectant every night

- Wipe down every seat on every ride after each person goes on it or wipe down every seat every night

- Take everyone’s temperature before entrance

- Require guests who enter the park to show recent test results indicating they don’t have the virus

- Enforce 6 foot separations between parties in queue lines

- Regularly test all employees for the virus

- Have all employees wear masks and gloves

 

Keep in mind, the main goal of this quarantine was to stop a large amount of the population getting sick at the once, and instead, spread out the amount of cases.

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I'm willing to bet that everything will be open by July. There's already protests, and governors are already starting to cave. And now with these antibody tests, they're finding out that pretty much everyone has or had it anyway and by the end of May, the true scope of the virus will come to light. Everyone I've talked with in the last week or so says they would rather just get the virus instead of deal with all this other stuff. The governments will come to the conclusion.. If people don't want to risk it they can choose to stay home, everyone else is free to do as they want. 

These places requiring people to where masks and or gloves is ridiculous, both are actually way more likely to spread the virus, and other germs. Taking temp also does nothing, you can be infected and contagious days before you get a fever, not to mention 80%+ of the people who get it have no symptoms and have also been found to actually be more contagious. 

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8 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

The Cedar Point Marina is reopening May 1st to Ohio dockholders. That's a pretty good sign if you ask me.

I agree. I really do think that if the state is slowly beginning to re-open, the parks will follow as soon as they are able to.

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21 minutes ago, Klabergian Empire said:

I agree. I really do think that if the state is slowly beginning to re-open, the parks will follow as soon as they are able to.

It's only an assumption that they're able to reopen. The state of Ohio won't release their plan until Monday, so a lot of businesses are just guessing that they are going to be able to reopen.

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36 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

The Cedar Point Marina is reopening May 1st to Ohio dockholders. That's a pretty good sign if you ask me.

 

Aren't there only like 130 docks or so, and limiting it to Ohio dockholders certainly is an easier controlled environment than an amusement park.

And let's hope they didn't announce something too early...DeWine said on Monday he will announce what can start to re-open...and anything that does open has to comply with all the social distancing measures in place.

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I am contemplating giving up social media due to the sheer amount of people that think amusement parks will be opening soon.  Its up in the air for sporting events in the fall.  People cite china parks opening.  Last I checked China is not very regulated.

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I am contemplating giving up social media due to the sheer amount of people that think amusement parks will be opening soon.  Its up in the air for sporting events in the fall.  People cite china parks opening.  Last I checked China is not very regulated.
China not regulated? Their whole system of government relies on the government maintaining absolute control.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

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14 hours ago, super7 said:

An amusement park is supposed to be a fun carefree day away from reality.   Who wants to spend the day at an amusement park wearing a mask, being afraid to touch anything and being afraid to be within 6 feet of any other person?

I totally agree. Same with going to the beach, bars, ballgames, etc. I simply won't be able to enjoy my time there unless I have some very real assurances that the environment is safe. Those are my chances to unwind and not worry about anything. 

13 hours ago, Fishely said:

By the time parks can open, a lot of people will be fed up with hiding in there houses for months. You already can see it now. 

Of course they are-but being tired of something doesn't change the situation. You can't will normalcy into existence. I'm sick and tired of all of this. I love concerts, sports, golf, and amusement parks-and they have all been taken away. But at this point I've invested far too much into staying safe to jeopardize it by being around a bunch of people who haven't made that same investment. 

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4 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

I am contemplating giving up social media due to the sheer amount of people that think amusement parks will be opening soon.  Its up in the air for sporting events in the fall.  People cite china parks opening.  Last I checked China is not very regulated.

I know several that have done that...I am contemplating it myself.  My friends that have got off social media are so much more happier than they were before.  Regarding China, they are much more regulated than the US...

I posted something similar in another thread, but this is certainly relevant here as well as it is relevant to the timing of things.

How cities respond to Covid-19 is part science and part history.  The history part comes from the Spanish Flu of 1918.  It is well documented the differences in responses between Philadelphia and St. Louis, as well as the double-hump that Denver saw after relaxing standards regarding the Spanish Flu outbreak of 1918.

Back in 1918, Philly held a parade on September 28th, barely 14 days after the first cases were reported in Philly.  Look at the jump Philly had by waiting weeks to start the social distancing, compared to St. Louis enacting these same policies within days of their first cases.  Philly overall death count was higher too, despite it being a shorter duration.

Contrast that to Ohio for COVID-19 that started the shut-down prior to our first case in Ohio...imagine what our numbers would be if Ohio wasn't the first to go these efforts..

image.png

 

Now Denver is an interesting situation as well.  They re-opened up a little too early in 1918 and got a re-surge during the first wave of the outbreak. 

Our current elected officials acknowledge that once re-opening starts, we will start to see an uptick again, so it is a balance of not opening up too early and have re-surge be larger than the initial surge.  I would think most companies would rather wait two weeks and be able to re-open and stay open than open two-weeks early and being open a month and then getting shut down for another two months or more...

image.png

So the question will be, do our states see a new spike that is worse than the first?  And history tells us that we will see Covid-19 again this fall and next spring 2021.  History also shows the 2nd of the three phases is usually the worse...so the worse is probably yet to come...

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