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What I think they fail to recognize is that with all the pass add-ons, FL, etc., while bringing them additional revenue, also means that there is more demand for everything in the park than there was

The international workers are so important at CP. They relied on them heavily for resort, food and beverage and early and late season staffing. They also are susceptible to weather down time more than

I don’t think it was about the souvenir cup. I think her point is she paid for a locker and got in line, and now she’s being told that she isn’t allowed to wait in line - which would be fair grounds t

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I'm not there but I have already seen a picture on facebook with a Dragster will not open today sign. Its gonna be a typical garbage truck on fire opening weekend. I'm gonna avoid it and go next weekend. They supposedly already changed the gate policy. I think any guest can enter and leave any gate after 10am but do not quote me on that.

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25 minutes ago, SnakePlissken said:

I'm not there but I have already seen a picture on facebook with a Dragster will not open today sign. Its gonna be a typical garbage truck on fire opening weekend. I'm gonna avoid it and go next weekend. They supposedly already changed the gate policy. I think any guest can enter and leave any gate after 10am but do not quote me on that.

we will be there with flp on Friday and Saturday next week

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Yeah the gate rules only apply during the early entry hour. I'm interested in line closure times as well. 90 minutes early was the most aggressive line close we observed last year (Valravn). This year, with the big 4 being back off access passes I wonder if it'll be 120 minutes early on Maverick/SV on very busy days. Not ideal. 

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31 minutes ago, JimParker85 said:

Yeah the gate rules only apply during the early entry hour. I'm interested in line closure times as well. 90 minutes early was the most aggressive line close we observed last year (Valravn). This year, with the big 4 being back off access passes I wonder if it'll be 120 minutes early on Maverick/SV on very busy days. Not ideal. 

So 6pm closes on busy days? Makes me wonder what the line of thinking is there. If it is that busy pay employees to keep the park running till 10pm maybe even midnight. Make more money on merchandise, beer, food etc. But what do I know.

 

Also I know some of us would be completely fine with backing up the opening if it meant some later hours and night rides.

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4 minutes ago, JimParker85 said:

These very early line closures will be a guest service/guest experience catastrophe. 

I feel bad for the guys in there having to deal with that.

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49 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Management makes decisions and poor hourly employees have to pay the price.

If the early line closure was a CF chain wide policy for all parks, then maybe that is the way it is.  However, KI has not been closing lines early, so must be a CP specific policy (probably to save on labor costs).  People definitely need to stop by guest services to complain so that the new CP general manager can take notice of all the customer feedback.  It is sad that the employees have to take all the criticism from upset paying customers when the lines close early.

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3 hours ago, coaster sally said:

They closed Steel Vengeance line before 530.  Valravyn broke down this AM and never reopened.  FLP for maverick, millenium, and steel vengeance all over an hour wait.

At some point people will say FLP is not worth the cost for hour long waits...and this was with the park doing reservations....what was the cap?

And I assume that FL had to be cut off close to when they did for the regular line as well?

And then cutting off the lines before park close...

CP guests continue to get less rides in per visit.  That will have a trickle down effect.

Unfortunately for KI fans and regulars, the current operation of CP will turn all but the truest enthusiasts to come to KI for more ride times...thus increasing the attendance at KI and wait times for all...

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3 hours ago, disco2000 said:

At some point people will say FLP is not worth the cost for hour long waits...and this was with the park doing reservations....what was the cap?

And I assume that FL had to be cut off close to when they did for the regular line as well?

And then cutting off the lines before park close...

CP guests continue to get less rides in per visit.  That will have a trickle down effect.

Unfortunately for KI fans and regulars, the current operation of CP will turn all but the truest enthusiasts to come to KI for more ride times...thus increasing the attendance at KI and wait times for all...

The King's Island food and drink stands were insane today and seeing as I only counted like 3 closed I'm not sure much could be done about it. I have been to other parks not Cedar Fair on busy days and not had this problem so I'm not sure what is going on. Holiday World does not have this issue with the free drink stands. People come and go as they please. Maybe Cedar Fair needs to see how many guest have meal and or drink plans vs not and just add the price into daily tickets and passes and make drinks and or a meal a day free to cut down lines.

On the other hand seeing King's Island crazy food/drink lines and not being able to get drinks near as fast as I need to without paying for something and hearing about todays lines/early shutoffs at Cedar Point. I think I am going to reconsider my Cedar Point plans for this coming Saturday and just not go. I may not even use the Frontier Festival tickets I bought because those lines will be insane too. I thin some of them are using regular food booths this year when in 2019 they had they own little stands.

All this and the very high likelyhood of a second season without Haunt will make me highly consider not renewing passes and addons come this August. At the very least not repurchase fastlanes. Put all that money into going somewhere else new next year.

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It will certainly be interesting to see how many pass renewals they get come August.  

Granted people always complain on social media and say they won't buy a pass again, but most do.

Could this be the year were people say the value just isn't there anymore...too early to tell...but I think given how a park like CP ended last year and haven't seem to learn from it, I could see a mass exodus of pass holders for next year.

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1 minute ago, disco2000 said:

It will certainly be interesting to see how many pass renewals they get come August.  

Granted people always complain on social media and say they won't buy a pass again, but most do.

Could this be the year were people say the value just isn't there anymore...too early to tell...but I think given how a park like CP ended last year and haven't seem to learn from it, I could see a mass exodus of pass holders for next year.

Was the gold pass boom in 2019 worth it when they will get less renewals going forward?

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12 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

Was the gold pass boom in 2019 worth it when they will get less renewals going forward?

If CP were smart they would not offer that again at CP....but we both know they will...

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If the staffing issues remain a major issue all season (very possible), and crowd numbers stay higher than normal on a daily basis (with so many passholders and a drastically reduced operating calendar, also possible) and the early ride close stays as drastic as it currently is... I think the result will be fewer renewals, even if they continue to give away the gate with the $99 gold pass. Overall, however, I think their calculation will continue to be that a low price point will allow them to absorb the rapidly declining guest experience without much penalty. Sad. 

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^this!  The slightest blip of declining attendance will cause them to give away the gate like never seen before.

At what point is a correction made and what is that correction?  Is it increased pass costs?  Is it truly capping daily attendance based on available staff?  Or is it more of the same.  Hey the gold pass at $99 brought in the guests, let's try $50.  

This has been their model moving forward for quite some time.

What is the point of them requiring reservations if they then cannot balance the attendance to available staff?  

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Hopefully with a new GM, she will turn things around quickly. Now if she can't convince CF to raise wages to get more employees I am not sure what else she can do to help that.

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13 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Hopefully with a new GM, she will turn things around quickly. Now if she can't convince CF to raise wages to get more employees I am not sure what else she can do to help that.

CP has turned into the stereotypical six flags park over the last few years.

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What I think they fail to recognize is that with all the pass add-ons, FL, etc., while bringing them additional revenue, also means that there is more demand for everything in the park than there was previously, if that makes any sense...

Basically, before meal plans, a large number of people would leave the park and/or pack food and eat in the parking lot.  Now with the economical add-ons or the $30 daily meal plan for a meal every 90min means that if they let 65,000 in, a larger number of that 65,000 guests are staying within the park gates riding, eating, shopping, etc. than say 10 years ago when folks would go back to their hotel or eat in the parking lot...and the current model ends up degrading the overall experience for everyone.

The days when they could overprice the food to help balance supply/demand is tossed out the window now...in the past they recognized the higher prices for food would drive folks out to the parking lot, and they were ok with that because they knew they couldn't keep up with the demand if they offered dollar meal prices...but the demand has increased exponentially with meal plan offers without substantial improvements to the ability to handle it.

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1 hour ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

Hopefully with a new GM, she will turn things around quickly. Now if she can't convince CF to raise wages to get more employees I am not sure what else she can do to help that.

I promise you it wasn't Mr. McClure at fault, look above.  Not to mention, this new GM spent 16 years working for Disney, has anyone stopped for one second to think about WHY Frenchie and this new CP GM left Disney after so long.... an entity that traditionally treats its EXECUTIVES (and no other employee) very well?  One doesn't normally give up a spot like that 100% voluntarily.

 

Edited to say that I will be one of those not renewing my pass for 22.  I honestly would not have renewed it this year had it not been carried over from 2020, and no its not because Im an entitled, whiney douche, it is simply because it is time for me to move on to other things and if one particular person ends up moving to Sandusky in the next year or so I will simply go with them and have them purchase my FL+ so I can get it at the reduced price.

 

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28 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

What I think they fail to recognize is that with all the pass add-ons, FL, etc., while bringing them additional revenue, also means that there is more demand for everything in the park than there was previously, if that makes any sense...

Basically, before meal plans, a large number of people would leave the park and/or pack food and eat in the parking lot.  Now with the economical add-ons or the $30 daily meal plan for a meal every 90min means that if they let 65,000 in, a larger number of that 65,000 guests are staying within the park gates riding, eating, shopping, etc. than say 10 years ago when folks would go back to their hotel or eat in the parking lot...and the current model ends up degrading the overall experience for everyone.

The days when they could overprice the food to help balance supply/demand is tossed out the window now...in the past they recognized the higher prices for food would drive folks out to the parking lot, and they were ok with that because they knew they couldn't keep up with the demand if they offered dollar meal prices...but the demand has increased exponentially with meal plan offers without substantial improvements to the ability to handle it.

Has the food prices even went up all that much over the years? I came back to riding coasters in 2018 but I remember thinking even then $15 for a meal in the park was high. But after 3 years of inflation and covid regular fast food is over 10 in a lot of places and the park food doesn't seem as crazy high in comparison.

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29 minutes ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

I promise you it wasn't Mr. McClure at fault, look above.  Not to mention, this new GM spent 16 years working for Disney, has anyone stopped for one second to think about WHY Frenchie and this new CP GM left Disney after so long.... an entity that traditionally treats its EXECUTIVES (and no other employee) very well?  One doesn't normally give up a spot like that 100% voluntarily.

 

Edited to say that I will be one of those not renewing my pass for 22.  I honestly would not have renewed it this year had it not been carried over from 2020, and no its not because Im an entitled, whiney douche, it is simply because it is time for me to move on to other things and if one particular person ends up moving to Sandusky in the next year or so I will simply go with them and have them purchase my FL+ so I can get it at the reduced price.

 

This year there is no platinum discount, it may stick around.

 

And yes, this started with Mr. McClure.  CP had been going downhill ever since he got there and hit an all time low September 2019.

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28 minutes ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

Edited to say that I will be one of those not renewing my pass for 22.  I honestly would not have renewed it this year had it not been carried over from 2020, and no its not because Im an entitled, whiney douche, it is simply because it is time for me to move on to other things and if one particular person ends up moving to Sandusky in the next year or so I will simply go with them and have them purchase my FL+ so I can get it at the reduced price.

 

I'm honestly genuinely interested in your perspective here. Is it time for you to move on because the quality of the experience is no longer up to your expectations? Or is it just that you're kind of bored with Amusement parks in general?

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13 minutes ago, coaster sally said:

This year there is no platinum discount, it may stick around.

 

And yes, this started with Mr. McClure.  CP had been going downhill ever since he got there and hit an all time low September 2019.

Honestly in some ways I have to disagree with you here. One thing I’m very happy McClure focused on was the parks food offerings. Under his management the park seems to have made decent strides to improve their food offerings, which was one of my biggest problems with the park. I think your point about the park feeling like a Six Flags park is pretty spot on though as clearly operationally theres severe issues & the park seems to lack a lot of charm.

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I think there are a few things at play.

1. Isn't CP the park that depends on international visas the most? All of the other major CP parks are within 20 to 30 minutes of metro areas so they have a bigger domestic workforce population to pull from).

2. Operationally they struggle for whatever reason.  It isn't just the Intamins either.  Valravn and Raptor seem to have a lot of issues.  KI, Wonderland, and Carowinds don't seem to have this issue.

3. I have joked that CP is the park you date and KI is the one you marry.

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The international workers are so important at CP. They relied on them heavily for resort, food and beverage and early and late season staffing. They also are susceptible to weather down time more than most. They've had an unnecessarily cautious rain policy for years (even before the Magnum bumping incident) and Raptor/Dragster go down often for wind. Add in the significant reduction in ticket prices, ever increasing reliance on and availability of fastlane and more and more guests having meal and drink plan... You get a reduced experience on a lot of fronts. Now add in the awful early line closure... It's just piling on.

I've made multiple trips to the park every year since 2002 where we've paid to stay on-site. 2021 will be my first year making only 1 trip since back on my family trips in the 90s. The ride lineup is the best it's ever been and Breakers is a nice hotel (albeit still very expensive), but it's just not worth it to spend 5-8 nights there a year anymore for us. We are adding 3 Six Flags parks to our trips this summer, plus Hershey before our pass expires. Add in KI, Carowinds and BGW if Pantheon opens, and it's a lot of money spent elsewhere than CP. 

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