Action Zone Redevelopment

[disco2000]

5 hours ago, johnjniehaus said:

I totally agree. The Arrow Suspended Coasters were never as common as the loopers and mine rides and their numbers are dwindling. They are an endangered coaster type that needs to see a group like ACE make a motion to start preserving at least one or two. I was so excited to hear The Bat trains are getting repainted this year and of course that Adventure Express is getting enhancements. That's code for AE is going to be around many more years and The Bat has a few more seasons left as well. I personally love to see the directions the park is going with maintaining the older coasters - Racer re-track greatly improved the ride, Beast re-tracking was amazing, Adventure Express enhancement is exciting....I think it's always a debate of do we fix an old coaster or just build a new one and unfortunately 95% of the time they build a new one. Kings Island has some very important coasters that need to be preserved for future generations and one of those is The Bat. 

 

There is a big part you are missing, and that is service life and repair costs of steel coasters compared to wooden coasters, and that is why we see things like Vortex, Firehawk, and King Cobra disappear, and eventually The Bat will leave...that plays a much bigger role than "community" opinion or a "debate of do we fix an old coaster or just build a new one" on when a steel coaster is removed.

And don't mistake a paint job as it means it will be around a lot longer.  King Cobra was repainted and was gone a year or two afterwards.  Slingshot was painted and then removed without re-opening....

A wood coaster can last longer because it is easy for the parks to buy lumber in bulk and the type of laborer needed and access to the piece that needs replaced is easier than for a steel coaster.

Our wooden coasters are walked daily and if you visit enough, there are times you can see a piece of wood has been replaced mid-season as a result of these daily inspections.  And then sometimes we get off-season sections replaced as we have seen recently.  Due to the design of the wooden coasters (walking paths the entire length) and the type of laborer needed for wood (compared to a welder), it is cheaper to maintain wooden coaster than a steel coaster.

While steel is stronger than wood, it is subject to higher loads, fatigue and as such has a defined service life.  Sometimes the service life is shorter than expected, and sometimes it is longer.  So many factors come into play.  Maybe it got bad steel; or the stress loads were higher than anticipated; or the temperature of the location of the ride impacted the steel more while it was being operated.  Steel can only handle so many cycles before it starts to fatigue and it typically deforms and weakens at the welds.  Steel coasters are subject to annual non-destructive testing inspections for the integrity of the welds. Other testing such as holiday testing, ultrasound, and several other methods are used to detect imperfections that are not visible to the naked eye.  At some point these inspections provide how much longer the ride is able to operate until wide-scale fatigue failure occurs.  Sometimes is matches up with the intended design life, and sometimes it doesn't.

Part of the maintenance of steel coasters is repairing any welds that are beginning to fatigue. This is extremely expensive. The ride manufacturers require certain methods, type of welds, materials, etc. to be used on their rides.  Plus, unlike wooden coasters with a walking track the entire length, steel coasters usually only have that on the lift hill, MCBR, and final brake run.  So now you need cranes or other equipment to hoist the laborer and material in place.  With a wood coaster, you can carry a couple of pieces of lumber with you to the location. The specialty labor required for a steel coaster weld repair, along with the parts cost is orders of magnitude greater than for a wooden coaster.

You may be asking well why don't parks re-track and replace components yearly on their steel coasters like they do for wooden coasters? Again, the answer is cost.  Depending on the nature of the repair, it could cost more to repair than a new coaster.  Same thing with automobiles - sometimes the cost to repair a vehicle after a crash is more expensive than just buying a new car.  Or restaurants.  Many times it is cheaper to demolish and rebuild on site than it would be to remodel and get it up to current code.

The initial build and fabrication of the steel coaster is always cheaper in the factory and onsite in an open field than 30-something years later.  Access is more difficult, more levels of approvals are needed.  More specialized laborers are needed.  The cost of the materials are more expensive, etc.

Further, by the time the ride has reached its original design life, many of these rides will have lost enough ridership as they have aged that the ride's popularity would not justify replacing all the steel components needing replacement, especially if it would be cheaper to simply build a new coaster. As it relates to The Bat, it does have going for it that the segments are bolted instead of welded like older Arrow coasters, so if there were sections that came back that were more fatigued than others, it could be possible.  But there is still a lot of welding on The Bat.

Does that mean that no steel coaster is ever rehabbed and track replaced - no - it has happened and will continue to happen on a case-by-case basis.

But for something like The Bat, I could only see KI keep it around beyond its service life with rehab if ACE provided funds to do so to "preserve" an Arrow Suspended Coaster and I just don't see that happening...

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

10 hours ago, disco2000 said:

There is a big part you are missing, and that is service life and repair costs of steel coasters compared to wooden coasters, and that is why we see things like Vortex, Firehawk, and King Cobra disappear, and eventually The Bat will leave...that plays a much bigger role than "community" opinion or a "debate of do we fix an old coaster or just build a new one" on when a steel coaster is removed.

Vortex put a lot more force onto its tracks than The Bat does. It was also built very high off the ground, on uneven terrain no less. The growing roughness of the old girl was due in part to how awesome she was.

Firehawk was always an unreliable maintenance nightmare. I don't think there was a day I visited where it didn't have some kind of problem. I feel that it truly deserved its demise.

King Cobra was an unremarkable TOGO which relied on a gimmick that was insufferable for roughly half the people riding it. There is still a clone of it operating in Italy despite this. Italian men must really like their standup coasters.

 

While I have an undying affinity for classic Arrow Loopers, they really don't offer much of a unique experience to your average thrill rider. It pains me to say it, as it was my favorite in the park, but Vortex was a rough antiquity that didn't appeal to a lot of riders.  This is the real reason it was axed. It was a jerky novelty from yesteryear that people seemed to be very mixed on. The Bat is not anywhere nearly as uncomfortable as Vortex was during its last few seasons, nor does its location cause any real congestion in the absence of Son of Beast. The Bat's day will come, far sooner than I'd like, but I do not see it going anywhere for a few years, especially since we just got Orion on that side of the park. The wheel incident was a bad look, sure, but so was Vortex's chain failure back in 2011. If I am wrong then feel free to jeer me a year or two from now. For now, let those woods roar.

[BeeastFarmer]

Can you imagine the angst around the end of the next decade when it comes time to remove Diamondback?  Or if Mystic Timbers becomes Steel Timbers?  On the other hand, it will be exciting to see the Junkyard Coaster leave, unless the park decides to really clean up and retheme the area.  (Nothing against the coaster itself, its theme is just terribly ugly!)

[Rivertown Rider]

I would expect Invertigo to leave before The Bat would.  It seems like it has the most downtime of any of the coasters and it has bad efficiency because of its design.

Also the Invertigo area being flatter would be easier and likely cheaper from a future construction standpoint.

[IBEW_Sparky]

1 hour ago, BeeastFarmer said:

Can you imagine the angst around the end of the next decade when it comes time to remove Diamondback?  Or if Mystic Timbers becomes Steel Timbers?  On the other hand, it will be exciting to see the Junkyard Coaster leave, unless the park decides to really clean up and retheme the area.  (Nothing against the coaster itself, its theme is just terribly ugly!)

We were just talking about that very thing Sunday while at Winterfest....having GCI utilize Titan track to add about 40' to MTs lift hill, and put a corkscrew or zero-G roll and a slow 180 stall both somewhere in the layout!

[rlentless]

I just hope we do not have to look at empty spots where Invertigo, Congo Falls or The Bat now sit . . Drop Tower too.  What is the longevity of those type of rides?  Because now we have to look at an empty lot where Vortex sat until something new comes along.  That one seemed to happen before the park had planned.  My guess they found fixing the support structure was just too cost prohibitive.

I just don't want to see anything removed until there is a replacement plan.

[johnjniehaus]

18 hours ago, disco2000 said:

 

There is a big part you are missing, and that is service life and repair costs of steel coasters compared to wooden coasters, and that is why we see things like Vortex, Firehawk, and King Cobra disappear, and eventually The Bat will leave...that plays a much bigger role than "community" opinion or a "debate of do we fix an old coaster or just build a new one" on when a steel coaster is removed.

And don't mistake a paint job as it means it will be around a lot longer.  King Cobra was repainted and was gone a year or two afterwards.  Slingshot was painted and then removed without re-opening....

A wood coaster can last longer because it is easy for the parks to buy lumber in bulk and the type of laborer needed and access to the piece that needs replaced is easier than for a steel coaster.

Our wooden coasters are walked daily and if you visit enough, there are times you can see a piece of wood has been replaced mid-season as a result of these daily inspections.  And then sometimes we get off-season sections replaced as we have seen recently.  Due to the design of the wooden coasters (walking paths the entire length) and the type of laborer needed for wood (compared to a welder), it is cheaper to maintain wooden coaster than a steel coaster.

While steel is stronger than wood, it is subject to higher loads, fatigue and as such has a defined service life.  Sometimes the service life is shorter than expected, and sometimes it is longer.  So many factors come into play.  Maybe it got bad steel; or the stress loads were higher than anticipated; or the temperature of the location of the ride impacted the steel more while it was being operated.  Steel can only handle so many cycles before it starts to fatigue and it typically deforms and weakens at the welds.  Steel coasters are subject to annual non-destructive testing inspections for the integrity of the welds. Other testing such as holiday testing, ultrasound, and several other methods are used to detect imperfections that are not visible to the naked eye.  At some point these inspections provide how much longer the ride is able to operate until wide-scale fatigue failure occurs.  Sometimes is matches up with the intended design life, and sometimes it doesn't.

Part of the maintenance of steel coasters is repairing any welds that are beginning to fatigue. This is extremely expensive. The ride manufacturers require certain methods, type of welds, materials, etc. to be used on their rides.  Plus, unlike wooden coasters with a walking track the entire length, steel coasters usually only have that on the lift hill, MCBR, and final brake run.  So now you need cranes or other equipment to hoist the laborer and material in place.  With a wood coaster, you can carry a couple of pieces of lumber with you to the location. The specialty labor required for a steel coaster weld repair, along with the parts cost is orders of magnitude greater than for a wooden coaster.

You may be asking well why don't parks re-track and replace components yearly on their steel coasters like they do for wooden coasters? Again, the answer is cost.  Depending on the nature of the repair, it could cost more to repair than a new coaster.  Same thing with automobiles - sometimes the cost to repair a vehicle after a crash is more expensive than just buying a new car.  Or restaurants.  Many times it is cheaper to demolish and rebuild on site than it would be to remodel and get it up to current code.

The initial build and fabrication of the steel coaster is always cheaper in the factory and onsite in an open field than 30-something years later.  Access is more difficult, more levels of approvals are needed.  More specialized laborers are needed.  The cost of the materials are more expensive, etc.

Further, by the time the ride has reached its original design life, many of these rides will have lost enough ridership as they have aged that the ride's popularity would not justify replacing all the steel components needing replacement, especially if it would be cheaper to simply build a new coaster. As it relates to The Bat, it does have going for it that the segments are bolted instead of welded like older Arrow coasters, so if there were sections that came back that were more fatigued than others, it could be possible.  But there is still a lot of welding on The Bat.

Does that mean that no steel coaster is ever rehabbed and track replaced - no - it has happened and will continue to happen on a case-by-case basis.

But for something like The Bat, I could only see KI keep it around beyond its service life with rehab if ACE provided funds to do so to "preserve" an Arrow Suspended Coaster and I just don't see that happening...

Very good explanation of why steel coasters have a limited life. There are a few Arrows that have been made ACE Coaster landmarks such as Magnum XL 200 at Cedar Point, Corkscrew at Silverwood, Runaway Mine Train at Six Flags Over TX, Lochness Monster at Busch Gardens Williamsburg, and Matterhorn at Disneyland. Surely X2 is going to be nominated at some point in the future. I really hope they will nominate an Arrow Suspended Coaster at some point (not sure if they are historically significant enough seeing as all the historical ones are already gone). I personally think that S&S should bring back the model just because they are genuinely fun, unique coasters that are going the way of the dinosaur. There's always room to hope seeing as the Schwarzkopf WildCat is apparently coming back in 2024! 

[CorkscrewMcPuke]

On 12/15/2022 at 1:22 PM, rlentless said:

Drop Tower too.  What is the longevity of those type of rides?

The actual structure itself likely doesn't take too much abuse. Coaster supports regularly get shock-loaded every time a train comes by, but a tower like that kind of just guides the vehicle back to the station. I don't see Drop Tower going until they already have something planned to plop down in its place, but that's really just a guess.