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2022 & 2023 Additions and Improvements Notice


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19 minutes ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Do you have a source on that? I have never heard that before. I thought Orion was always planned on being part of Coney/Xbase.

It's called he wrote a book and did tons of interviews lol.

But that concept has been talked on here before...

 

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7 hours ago, Coasterteam said:

I don't know what would make a company appear on this document, whether that just be general talk between them and Kings Island or actual work being done with them, it's still intriguing. 

I feel like its important to answer this question.  What does it take to make it on this list.  The park has a signed contract with these companies, discussions are not enough.  This document is intended to mark the start of a major project, the companies on this list will be providing goods and services to the park that will result in an improvement to the property.

Regular maintenance, something that you can just call up a company, order a replacement part, and have park employees install will not be on this list.  For instance, a lift chain or motor is just not enough to make this list.  The company has to actually be doing something substantial for the park.  I could see modifications related to fixing the jolt after the turn around on Diamondback being enough, but I don't think that is what we are looking at.

This document and list screams the park is getting a new steel coaster.  The document is extremely similar to what was filled before Orion, the park quite literally modified that document to add additional companies.  I pulled up this document and the last one from 2019 and put them on my monitor side by side.  The list of companies, starts out being identical for a long ways down the list, the majority of the companies on this document are the same as Orion.  The changes are down towards the bottom where Zamperla, and Gravity Kraft are listed.

The only conclusion I can draw is the park is getting another B&M.  Still tons of options, wing, dive, flying, floorless, or stand-up.  But I feel confident either someone screwed up, or we are looking at the start of a coaster.

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5 hours ago, KIghostguy said:

Yes, Jeff Gramke and Jamie Gaffney. The initial idea was for the station to go where TimberWolf was and the coaster would have gone along the old Columbia Road and the parking lot. The issue with that is there's a lot of utilities owned by outside companies right around there. Relocating those and negotiating with the companies would have been too time-consuming since the project started later in the game at Kings Island. Ultimately, Coney Mall was slipping on the revenue side and had two rides that needed to be replaced, so they decided to focus on that area instead. I don't believe there were any layouts done with the ride in Action Zone since it was early in the planning process. Just the general idea of, "This is where it could go."

There are some easements posted in the last couple years (one earlier this year) on the Warren County Recorder site between the park and Duke Energy which makes me wonder if that is related at all to this project.

Action Zone does need a refresh. If O'Rourke is being brought in to take out Timberwolf and the old SOB station the park has a real opportunity to revamp that whole area including lessening the walk to The Bat.  Another B&M in that area will help rebalance the crowds.  The main question is do they go Dive or Wing.

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Another B&M idea is what if its something we haven't seen yet. I believe it was a year or 2 ago B&M filed something with 2 new train designs. One being a new stand up which is going to SeaWorld Orlando for their surf coaster and the other one was B&M's take on a sit down lap bar (maybe for a multi launch to rival Mack, Intamin, etc). An idea I came up with here is what if they go with the new sit down lapbar design and build something similar to the Hulk at Universal with the new train design. 

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Vortex’s plot deserves a bold visual statement like Vortex itself was. I don’t think it needs to be a Hulk-like launch, we already have FOF and Backlot for launches and they take a lot of power to run, but a large, overhead lap bar (or even normal OTSR train) floorless has been my preferred model for that location ever since Vortex left.

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10 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Another B&M idea is what if its something we haven't seen yet. I believe it was a year or 2 ago B&M filed something with 2 new train designs. One being a new stand up which is going to SeaWorld Orlando for their surf coaster and the other one was B&M's take on a sit down lap bar (maybe for a multi launch to rival Mack, Intamin, etc). An idea I came up with here is what if they go with the new sit down lapbar design and build something similar to the Hulk at Universal with the new train design. 

image.png

I personally would like to see a Dive because we don’t have that vertical drop coaster but I wouldn’t mind a wing or surf.

I do think that a Surf launcher coaster by B&M is a very high possibility, we will find out in the early months or 2023 hopefully.

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17 hours ago, Hawaiian Coasters 325 said:

Do you have a source on that? I have never heard that before. I thought Orion was always planned on being part of Coney/Xbase.

I cant speak to the Timberwolf statement, but I can tell you that when I interviewed Mr. Koontz for ACE, he confirmed a couple locations in the park were spec'd for the coaster that eventually became Orion.    Here's what he said:

“We looked at a number of different designs and had discussions with Walter (Bolliger) at B&M about the different possibilities.” “We looked at the opportunities throughout the park, and they produced designs for different areas.”  He also said “It would have been a lot easier if we had built this coaster in the parking lot. “ He then alluded to the perimeter of the park being one of the areas spec'd in early proposals.

I think the important thing to remember is Orion's installation at KI was kind of a perfect storm.  Several things aligned (a couple ironic and timely) to help make the decisions for where it was built and what it became.  However, just with many other rides - it originated as several initial ideas & proposals for various areas in the park.  

Back to the topic at hand... 2023.... I stand by my belief that we will see a themed area re-hab.  I suspect at least part of Planet Snoopy might be on the bill for a re-do.  I noted this past season that the back half of it was in an obvious state of transition and vacancy.  Plus, I would suspect KI might want that "Best Kids Area" moniker back...  

If memory serves me, back when they expanded HB Land in '98, they didn't announce it until late in the season (August/Fall.) Also, (P)KI didn't announce the Nick Central expansion until January 2001.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, robintodd said:

I've always thought a dive on The Vortex plot would be ideal and wondered if you could do 300 ft. using the ravine.  Valraven always has a decent line at CP and the uptime is decent as well.

IIRC, the ravine is about 30ft below at its deepest. I think a mini dive focused on inversions would be fun whenever Vortex gets eventually replaced:

 

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56 minutes ago, SonofBaconator said:

IIRC, the ravine is about 30ft below at its deepest. I think a mini dive focused on inversions would be fun whenever Vortex gets eventually replaced:

 

Bring on the 187 foot dive coaster with 208ft drop for our second Hyper in the park!

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I think B&M’s new Surf Coaster would be great for Action Zone, it would give KI something different from CP’s lineup. If a new coaster is indeed coming for Action Zone then The Vortex land is going to still be empty for awhile, so Coney Mall will be next in line, since Area 72 is its own area now.  Can’t wait to see what happens. 

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Another possibility for O'Rourke I thought of is what if its for demolition of Congo Falls? Ik the park never did a last ride event or made an announcement so this is just pure speculation, but if I remember correctly Carowinds removed their chute the chutes ride without warning back in 2017 which was replaced by Copperhead Strike. Idk. Trust me if I was KI and removed Congo, I would announce it over the summer and do a last rides event, but we've seen rides close without warning before so who knows. If you removed Congo, you could honestly fit in a B&M wing or something without removing Timberwolf. Just build an L shape like GateKeeper and follow along the parking lot behind Timberwolf. They would have to work around or do some work with some of those power lines though which could be an issue as talked about earlier in this thread. 

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I think as Shaggy stated, that the kids area could use a revamp.  The last time it saw any investment was way back in 2015 when Woodstock`s Gliders and Snoopy`s Space Buggies were added.  It could certainly use a theming update, some fresh paint and a new ride or two...  

I think they need to fill in Vortex`s plot of land with something eventually.  Ideally before another coaster lands in the already coaster heavy Action Zone.

Soak City could use something new over there as well in the next several years. 

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I mentioned this earlier in the reddit thread that popped up for this document.

If we saw companies like Gerstlauer, RMC or Mack on this then speculation would begin to run rampant. 

While I'd love to see a Vortex replacement soon, this is likely just additional trackwork and/or parts for current rides. 

 

Either way as I've said before, time will tell! 

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15 hours ago, Kenban said:

The only conclusion I can draw is the park is getting another B&M.  Still tons of options, wing, dive, flying, floorless, or stand-up.  But I feel confident either someone screwed up, or we are looking at the start of a coaster.

I don't want to act entitled. The park obviously doesn't owe me anything. But none of those potential models sound like a good addition to me. Their hyper models are great but other than that, B&M's are remarkably uninteresting coasters these days especially in a park that already has three. And I'm very much not alone in that thinking.

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6 minutes ago, RedSummit20 said:

Diamondback is getting painted for the 2023 season. They said that at Coasterstock!  

They mentioned it being a goal for next year; so that can be taken different ways. 

Hoping it does though! Seeing Baynum on the list is very good and makes it more likely it'll happen! 

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While all of us enthusiasts would love a hyper hybrid RMC or an inversion focused infinity coaster to challenge the smiler over another B&M, the reality is that another B&M could be the best choice given the constraints put on KI.

Based off the investment history since Cedar Fair bought the park, its my opinion that the ride priorities for KI are as follows :

1. The new coaster must have good capacity. Riders per hour is a key metric, no low capacity adult coasters will be installed at KI going forward

2. The new coaster must be reliable. No experimental or complex rides. Uptime is king.

3. The new coaster must not be too intense for the general pubic. No i305 type rides for KI :(

4. The new coaster must be good enough to be marketable and draw in the locals. No coasters that are intentional filler coasters, whatever is added needs to fit into the Banshee\Diamondback\Mystic\Orion\Beast tier of coasters. (You could make the argument that they intended mysitic to be a filler coaster, and it just turned out WAY better than anyone anticipated by accident, but I suspect they intended it to be a top tier ride)

5. The new coaster must NOT render any top tier coaster at Cedar Point unmarketable. KI has a strong local market to keep it fed, CP does not. If the coasters at KI at better than CP, the profitability of the flaghship park is at risk. KI needs GP magnets to keep the locals coming, while CP needs record breakers to get people to travel there from out of state. As a bonus, many of those people who travel will visit KI as well. KI and CP are on the same team, and their rides need to complement eachother. CP needs to draw people in, KI needs to be good enough to keep the people it has, and to warrant a side trip from the CP guest. Different positions on the team, but both part of the starting lineup.

 

With these factors in mind, a Dive, floorless or Wing would both fit the bill. While CP has all three of these models, but they are not what brings people to the point. All three of these models would meet all 5 points. It might not be what us entitled enthusiasts want, but they fit the needs of the park.

 

Maybe if we go for a dive, Cedar Fair will consider giving us a record a go for a giga dive. Thats actually not that much bigger than Yucon Striker, and would give the park something noteworthy.

 

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22 minutes ago, Coasterteam said:

They mentioned it being a goal for next year; so that can be taken different ways. 

Hoping it does though! Seeing Baynum on the list is very good and makes it more likely it'll happen! 

its Def getting painted ;)

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10 minutes ago, Rifleman said:

Maybe if we go for a dive, Cedar Fair will consider giving us a record a go for a giga dive. Thats actually not that much bigger than Yucon Striker, and would give the park something noteworthy.

Kings Island is often considered chained by Cedar Point. Some can argue that the park is already better than Cedar Point in terms of employees, operations, and atmosphere. (I certainly prefer KI over Cedar Point, it's too much of a tourist attraction for me and needs to regain a lot of its lost rider capacity) Since SoB Kings Island leadership have stuck to those 5 points you have made. So far they're pretty good at keeping to those points.

An RMC would be risky since capacity can be an issue as well as reliability; i.e. Steel Vengeance has a lot of issues. RMC did learn a lot from that and they seem to be doing better. Intensity is up for debate but it would easily be the most intense coaster at the park; which would risk another point. Seeing a ground up RMC is very unlikely but a scaled down version could be an option if CF still wants to work with them. 

A B&M and GCI would check off all these points. A new Mack could have good capacity, Copperhead has an estimated 1200/hour capacity. Not sure how well it actually hits that. I have not heard of Copperhead or Time traveler being unreliable. The intensity is not on a level of intimidator 305. The fact few extreme spinners exist right now could make the ride seem more of a concept and risky in the complexity point. Might be too much of a crowd drawer since the only one currently in the US is in SDC. 

One thing people often miss is how Cedar Fair is starting to really head in the "nostalgia" direction. Could we see a modernization of a former ride come back? New B&M standup? Something like Bavarian Beetle? Some old flats come back?

 

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58 minutes ago, Rifleman said:

5. The new coaster must NOT render any top tier coaster at Cedar Point unmarketable. KI has a strong local market to keep it fed, CP does not. If the coasters at KI at better than CP, the profitability of the flaghship park is at risk.

This is not true at all. Worrying about "overshadowing" Cedar Point is not a part of the decision-making process for Kings Island. Look at Banshee to see this in action--it's a much more marketable ride than Raptor. And I'm sure a lot of people would put Orion above Mehllennium Force. :P

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18 minutes ago, Coasterteam said:

Kings Island is often considered chained by Cedar Point. Some can argue that the park is already better than Cedar Point in terms of employees, operations, and atmosphere. (I certainly prefer KI over Cedar Point, it's too much of a tourist attraction for me and needs to regain a lot of its lost rider capacity) Since SoB Kings Island leadership have stuck to those 5 points you have made. So far they're pretty good at keeping to those points.

An RMC would be risky since capacity can be an issue as well as reliability; i.e. Steel Vengeance has a lot of issues. RMC did learn a lot from that and they seem to be doing better. Intensity is up for debate but it would easily be the most intense coaster at the park; which would risk another point. Seeing a ground up RMC is very unlikely but a scaled down version could be an option if CF still wants to work with them. 

A B&M and GCI would check off all these points. A new Mack could have good capacity, Copperhead has an estimated 1200/hour capacity. Not sure how well it actually hits that. I have not heard of Copperhead or Time traveler being unreliable. The intensity is not on a level of intimidator 305. The fact few extreme spinners exist right now could make the ride seem more of a concept and risky in the complexity point. Might be too much of a crowd drawer since the only one currently in the US is in SDC. 

One thing people often miss is how Cedar Fair is starting to really head in the "nostalgia" direction. Could we see a modernization of a former ride come back? New B&M standup? Something like Bavarian Beetle? Some old flats come back?

 

When Canada's Wonderland put in Yukon Striker, there were elements of that ride that were heavily influenced by SkyRider, the coaster that was formerly in that spot (Similar paint scheme, loop in the same area as SkyRider's loop, the initial announcement video for Yukon Striker featuring SkyRider). Assuming this potential B&M could be going in Vortex's plot, it's possible that there could be elements of Vortex in this new ride, whether that be with theming or with certain element(s).

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1 hour ago, Coasterteam said:

One thing people often miss is how Cedar Fair is starting to really head in the "nostalgia" direction. Could we see a modernization of a former ride come back? New B&M standup? Something like Bavarian Beetle? Some old flats come back?

After thinking long and hard about it, I'm starting to lean in that direction. At Coasterstock, Mike Koontz was asked if he could bring any former ride back, what would he bring back and his answer was King Cobra. As much as I hated the 2 standups I've been on, I'm interested in seeing if this new version going to SeaWorld will be any more comfortable. With the hype and marketing going around with Zambezi Zinger returning, imagine the advertisements and hype they could do. Maybe the campaign being "The King is Back" or something along those lines. 

EDIT: Another thing I realized is 2024 would mark 40 years since King Cobra was built and if were still standing would celebrate its 40th anniversary. What a way to honor it 40 years after being built is to open a modern version.

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1 hour ago, KIghostguy said:

This is not true at all. Worrying about "overshadowing" Cedar Point is not a part of the decision-making process for Kings Island. Look at Banshee to see this in action--it's a much more marketable ride than Raptor. And I'm sure a lot of people would put Orion above Mehllennium Force. :P

I don't know many that put Orion over Millie...and many rank Diamondback over Orion... 

Orion is consistently ranked the bottom North America giga by many polls...

Heck, even the golden ticket ranks Millie #3 and Orion #20 (last place giga).  Not even close...  Where did Diamondback fall, oh #17...ahead of Orion... 

 

 

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