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How do you feel about CF buying PP?

BoddaH1994

By BoddaH1994,
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CoastersRZ KIC Immortal

CoastersRZ

Posted
Posted

Yes, I would have to say that is too ealry to say how CF will affect Kings Island one way or another. Obviousely, there won`t be any changes this year (or at least not towards the end of the year when season passes typically go on sale). I would expect that staffing might improve this season, but I doubt it will. I definantely think that staffing, especially in the rides department will increase next year. Especially on the coasters.

Some things that may be seen this year is whether or not WinterFest goes on or not this December. Additionally, it will be interesting to see what happens with the Gold Season Pass and all the perks like ERT, Walk on Weekends, etc. Those perks are what have helped PKI sell their passes. Will they be back next year because of CP philosophy "If it ain`t broke, don`t fix it?" Only time will tell.

Additionally, I`m sure that next season we will loose the Paramount`s in front of Kings Island, and the park will once again be known simply as KI. Also, there will be a new logo showing up everywhere.

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CoastersRZ KIC Immortal

CoastersRZ

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Another very good point! The website probably won`t be redone until the offseason though. (I mean technically, Cedar Fair won`t even own the parks until the deal closes in the third quarter.) I`m sure Cedar Fair will be busy implementing their strategies, evaluating what works and what doesn`t work and creating new guidelines for the park, among the other of dozens and dozens of things they will be working on/looking at in the coming year.

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The Interpreter KIC Immortal

The Interpreter

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Don't, however, forget that the third quarter COULD be as early as July 1, or, on the other hand, as late as September 30. My bet is it will be earlier as opposed to later, assuming regulatory approvals are forthcoming. CBS wants out, and yesterday. Plus they don't get their money til the sale is done. And if I were Cedar Fair, I would want in to those parks I had agreed to buy, so they could be managed by someone who cares about the long-term future.

Hopefully, the FIRST thing to go bye-bye will be the no early entry into the park policy Paramount put into effect this year.

Then again, doesn't Cedar Point do things the exact same way (except for Joe Cool Club members and resort guests)?

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  • 1 month later...
cstrwomann KIC Junky

cstrwomann

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I'm in a wait and see mode. Cedar Fair has purchased the Paramount rights, bought Nickelodeon theming, and is a very good company. I don't like that they are becoming a monopoly in the USA because they control the market now. My biggest fears is they will get rid of perks at PKI like free parking, WOW/Speed Pass, Reserved Parking, BAFFD, and Fear Fest, and Winterfest. I also fear that the market will get stagnant and they will not add new rides to the parks like Paramount does every year. I also fear they will charge extra for the water park.

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CoastersRZ KIC Immortal

CoastersRZ

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Keep in mind that both Dorney Park and Geauga Lake have their water parks included with park admission. Also, I highly doubt that FearFest will dissapear. It has been a success since it was launched. Furthermore, Cedar Fair has had huge success with their Halloween events as well.

Yes, some of the pass holder perks may be altered or removed altogether. But Cedar Fair hasn`t publicly commented on what changes, if any, are coming to the season pass programs at the parks. One might think that there will be a super pass where you could get into all three Ohio parks. Which wouldn`t be a bad pass, depending on how much they charge for it.

WinterFest might be gone forever. It all depends on if they want to have it this year or not, based on the success of it last year. I hope that they give it another shot this year to see if they can make it work. It would be a great way, if profitable, for Cedar Fair to bring in some extra revenue at an other wise dead time of the year for them.

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The Interpreter KIC Immortal

The Interpreter

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And if not profitable, it would:

a. reduce the time available for changing, upgrading the parks (whether profitable or not, but it looks worse when it isn't),

b. take focus away from an effort to integrate the parks into the Cedar Fair culture and business at a most important time,

c. show creditors and investors that "business is usual" at the parks, even though the company size has nearly doubled and the debt load is now nearly overwhelming, and

d. make even the possibility of Winterfest in the future far more remote...if it fails a second time around, it'd be done for, and probably for a lot longer than 13 years this time around...it would also give the naysayers in the company ammunition for a very long time: "We tried that, it didn't work, and how...we are NOT doing it again..."

Given all this, I can't imagine there is any chance of Winterfest happening again this year. If it does, I'll be amazed. Then again, I also couldn't imagine that Cedar Fair would actually buy all the Paramount Parks. They did. Now they are looking at Six Flags levels of debt that they need to pay off. I have every faith they can and will. But they won't do it by taking riverboat gambles on things that have very, very little chance of even breaking even; much less making a profit.

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THE_BEASTmaster KIC Senior

THE_BEASTmaster

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I'm in a wait and see mode. Cedar Fair has purchased the Paramount rights, bought Nickelodeon theming, and is a very good company. I don't like that they are becoming a monopoly in the USA because they control the market now. My biggest fears is they will get rid of perks at PKI like free parking, WOW/Speed Pass, Reserved Parking, BAFFD, and Fear Fest, and Winterfest. I also fear that the market will get stagnant and they will not add new rides to the parks like Paramount does every year. I also fear they will charge extra for the water park.

Why do some of you think Cedar Fair will get rid of Fear Fest? Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm (both run by Cedar Fair) have Halloween events in October too. I personally think Cedar Fair will run KI the way it's supposed to be run. With reliable rides, better shops and food, and a clean and more friendlier environment. I think Paramount only did half of that.

Bill

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  • 8 years later...
KIFan1 KIC Tourist

KIFan1

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Posted

Disney wasn't interested. Herschend couldn't have afforded it. Universal's then owners wanted out of the business, and got out.

Cedar Fair has done well, especially after Mr. Kinzel's attempt to sell out the unit holders and enrich himself and his family and cronies failed and he was subsequently ousted.

Well Kinzel had Cedar Fair buy the Paramount Parks JUST because he wanted to own KI, Disney was interested and Herschened wanted parks with major thrills. You'd be surprised how much these theme park companies wanted us. Don't judge a book by its cover. Herschened looks like it couldn't afford it but they would really push for it. Disney would go where the money is and would want their own thrill rides. Plus Cedar Fair spent 1.24 Billion dollars and put themselves in lots of debt. That's why they tried selling to Apollo.
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The Interpreter KIC Immortal

The Interpreter

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No. Mr. Kinzel is who wanted to sell to Apollo for his own personal and family and cronies' benefits.

Disney was not interested and did not bid. Had Disney wanted the CBS Parks, they would have gotten them.

There are those here who know far more than was ever publicly disclosed about this matter and they won't be disclosing information not already public.

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KIFan1 KIC Tourist

KIFan1

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No. Mr. Kinzel is who wanted to sell to Apollo for his own personal and family and cronies' benefits.

Disney was not interested and did not bid. Had Disney wanted the CBS Parks, they would have gotten them.

There are those here who know far more than was ever publicly disclosed about this matter and they won't be disclosing information not already public.

Actually I know that Disney was interested since they did make a bid but unfortunately the economy went bad so they dropped their bid. YES Cedar Fair tried to go with Apollo since they were in serious trouble, it had nothing to do with Kinzel. The companies that were interested in buying the Paramount Parks were Disney, Universal, Seaworld/Busch Gardens, Herschened, Six Flags, Merlin, and Parques Reunidos. I just wish that people could be more open minded about other companies owning KI and just use their imagination about what would KI look like under those companies! Is that too much to ask!?
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BB1 KIC Legend

BB1

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Posted

AND...

These forums are now closed captioned for the hearing impaired!

.....And monitored frequently for capitlization of Trademarked names such as Kings Island, The Beast even.

So much has changed on this road, people here, people gone, places here, places gone, so much will change in the future too, as it is forever changing.

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bkroz KIC Superstar

bkroz

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Posted

No. Mr. Kinzel is who wanted to sell to Apollo for his own personal and family and cronies' benefits.

Disney was not interested and did not bid. Had Disney wanted the CBS Parks, they would have gotten them.

There are those here who know far more than was ever publicly disclosed about this matter and they won't be disclosing information not already public.

Actually I know that Disney was interested since they did make a bid but unfortunately the economy went bad so they dropped their bid. YES Cedar Fair tried to go with Apollo since they were in serious trouble, it had nothing to do with Kinzel. The companies that were interested in buying the Paramount Parks were Disney, Universal, Seaworld/Busch Gardens, Herschened, Six Flags, Merlin, and Parques Reunidos. I just wish that people could be more open minded about other companies owning KI and just use their imagination about what would KI look like under those companies! Is that too much to ask!?

You've got to cool it, KIFan1.

Realize that you don't have all the answers. None of us do. But some people here are much, much wiser and more well-versed in the industry than you or I. Given time and careful listening and a willingness to learn, you'll come to realize how silly some of this is.

  • Disney owns and operates, owns, or licenses its likeness to world-class, international-destination parks in leading global cities: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Los Angeles... Consider: do you really think that Disney considered - much less made an actual bid - for a chain of seasonal coaster thrill parks throughout the Midwest? Come on. Think about that. I'm sure you've heard from a friend of a friend whose cousin worked at Kings Island back then that Disney made an offer. You're being told now by those much wiser and more versed in the industry that it's not true. You don't have to believe it, but think about it.
  • Universal, as the Interpreter mentioned, was at the time owned by a company eager to unload non-core business assets. They didn't want their own parks, much less to acquire more.
  • Herschend couldn't have afforded the Paramount Parks... Not to buy them or to keep them running if they had. And you say Cedar Fair bit off more than it could chew, and you wish HERSCHEND FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT had bought the parks? Oh, my...
  • Six Flags was under massive debt. In 2004, they unloaded all of their European parks and Ohio's Worlds of Adventure (selling it at a MASSIVE loss... tens of millions of dollars less than what they'd spent on the park in the five years prior). They next years, they closed or sold Six Flags AstroWorld, Frontier City and Whitewater Bay just to try to make some money to avoid bankruptcy as the company's stock plummeted. They sold an additional six parks in 2007... right about the time that you claim they made an offer to BUY Paramount Parks for a billion dollars! (By the way, Six Flags ended up filing for bankruptcy just two years later... And you think they were in a buying mood?!)
  • Anheuser-Busch, like Universal, was eager to let go of the theme parks in its portfolio, not take on more. It was a time when companies were unloading their non-core assets. CBS / Paramount / Viacom was a production company. Even if the parks were nice, they were not part of their core business. Owning parks did not benefit their production company or studios. Same with Anheuser-Busch, whose business was beer. As nice as the parks were, they were NOT part of the core business, so they were to be unloaded.

The point is that, to those of us who have been around / been in the industry / were here on Kings Island message boards before, during, and after the Paramount Parks sale, it sounds really silly for you to say, "The following companies were interested in buying the Paramount Parks:" then proceed to list every amusement park operator you can think of. No matter what you've heard from friends or what you've told your friends so many times it seems true, there are actual facts to consider, and people who actually have memories of that time.

Similarly, some of us were around during the Apollo debacle. Some of us here are privy to the inside information, and have an intimate understanding of the ins-and-outs of that transaction. It's alright that you don't. I don't either. But trust the folks who do before you decide you know all of the information and go around spouting it. Your friends might blindly go, "Wow! I didn't know that!" But here, you're among folks who actually know their stuff. Herschend buying the Paramount Parks?

You'd be surprised how much these theme park companies wanted us. Don't judge a book by its cover. Herschened looks like it couldn't afford it but they would really push for it. Disney would go where the money is and would want their own thrill rides.

Just... relax. You don't have to pretend to be an insider.

We've all got a lot to learn. Sit back, relax, read, search, think, and ask questions.

It's fun to imagine what a Disney's Kings Island could / could've looked like. It's another for you to tell us matter-of-factly that Disney made an offer to buy some roller coaster thrill park in Ohio. It's just not true. Sorry.

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Guest dtk1376

Guest dtk1376

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If in some parallel universe Disney did buy Kings Island I got a feeling most rides would of had their theming changed to reflect their brands. Could see them easily turning Adventure Express into a Snow White-esque ride for example. It would of been nice though to have a Disney themed park in the Midwest as it would be much more accessible than driving down to Florida for the nearest park. Maybe we can have a Kentucky Enchanted Kingdom park. :)

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KIFan1 KIC Tourist

KIFan1

Posted
Posted

No. Mr. Kinzel is who wanted to sell to Apollo for his own personal and family and cronies' benefits.

Disney was not interested and did not bid. Had Disney wanted the CBS Parks, they would have gotten them.

There are those here who know far more than was ever publicly disclosed about this matter and they won't be disclosing information not already public.

Actually I know that Disney was interested since they did make a bid but unfortunately the economy went bad so they dropped their bid. YES Cedar Fair tried to go with Apollo since they were in serious trouble, it had nothing to do with Kinzel. The companies that were interested in buying the Paramount Parks were Disney, Universal, Seaworld/Busch Gardens, Herschened, Six Flags, Merlin, and Parques Reunidos. I just wish that people could be more open minded about other companies owning KI and just use their imagination about what would KI look like under those companies! Is that too much to ask!?

You've got to cool it, KIFan1.

Realize that you don't have all the answers. None of us do. But some people here are much, much wiser and more well-versed in the industry than you or I. Given time and careful listening and a willingness to learn, you'll come to realize how silly some of this is.

  • Disney owns and operates, owns, or licenses its likeness to world-class, international-destination parks in leading global cities: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Los Angeles... Consider: do you really think that Disney considered - much less made an actual bid - for a chain of seasonal coaster thrill parks throughout the Midwest? Come on. Think about that. I'm sure you've heard from a friend of a friend whose cousin worked at Kings Island back then that Disney made an offer. You're being told now by those much wiser and more versed in the industry that it's not true. You don't have to believe it, but think about it.
  • Universal, as the Interpreter mentioned, was at the time owned by a company eager to unload non-core business assets. They didn't want their own parks, much less to acquire more.
  • Herschend couldn't have afforded the Paramount Parks... Not to buy them or to keep them running if they had. And you say Cedar Fair bit off more than it could chew, and you wish HERSCHEND FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT had bought the parks? Oh, my...
  • Six Flags was under massive debt. In 2004, they unloaded all of their European parks and Ohio's Worlds of Adventure (selling it at a MASSIVE loss... tens of millions of dollars less than what they'd spent on the park in the five years prior). They next years, they closed or sold Six Flags AstroWorld, Frontier City and Whitewater Bay just to try to make some money to avoid bankruptcy as the company's stock plummeted. They sold an additional six parks in 2007... right about the time that you claim they made an offer to BUY Paramount Parks for a billion dollars! (By the way, Six Flags ended up filing for bankruptcy just two years later... And you think they were in a buying mood?!)
  • Anheuser-Busch, like Universal, was eager to let go of the theme parks in its portfolio, not take on more. It was a time when companies were unloading their non-core assets. CBS / Paramount / Viacom was a production company. Even if the parks were nice, they were not part of their core business. Owning parks did not benefit their production company or studios. Same with Anheuser-Busch, whose business was beer. As nice as the parks were, they were NOT part of the core business, so they were to be unloaded.

The point is that, to those of us who have been around / been in the industry / were here on Kings Island message boards before, during, and after the Paramount Parks sale, it sounds really silly for you to say, "The following companies were interested in buying the Paramount Parks:" then proceed to list every amusement park operator you can think of. No matter what you've heard from friends or what you've told your friends so many times it seems true, there are actual facts to consider, and people who actually have memories of that time.

Similarly, some of us were around during the Apollo debacle. Some of us here are privy to the inside information, and have an intimate understanding of the ins-and-outs of that transaction. It's alright that you don't. I don't either. But trust the folks who do before you decide you know all of the information and go around spouting it. Your friends might blindly go, "Wow! I didn't know that!" But here, you're among folks who actually know their stuff. Herschend buying the Paramount Parks?

You'd be surprised how much these theme park companies wanted us. Don't judge a book by its cover. Herschened looks like it couldn't afford it but they would really push for it. Disney would go where the money is and would want their own thrill rides.

Just... relax. You don't have to pretend to be an insider.

We've all got a lot to learn. Sit back, relax, read, search, think, and ask questions.

It's fun to imagine what a Disney's Kings Island could / could've looked like. It's another for you to tell us matter-of-factly that Disney made an offer to buy some roller coaster thrill park in Ohio. It's just not true. Sorry.

No. Mr. Kinzel is who wanted to sell to Apollo for his own personal and family and cronies' benefits.

Disney was not interested and did not bid. Had Disney wanted the CBS Parks, they would have gotten them.

There are those here who know far more than was ever publicly disclosed about this matter and they won't be disclosing information not already public.

Actually I know that Disney was interested since they did make a bid but unfortunately the economy went bad so they dropped their bid. YES Cedar Fair tried to go with Apollo since they were in serious trouble, it had nothing to do with Kinzel. The companies that were interested in buying the Paramount Parks were Disney, Universal, Seaworld/Busch Gardens, Herschened, Six Flags, Merlin, and Parques Reunidos. I just wish that people could be more open minded about other companies owning KI and just use their imagination about what would KI look like under those companies! Is that too much to ask!?

You've got to cool it, KIFan1.

Realize that you don't have all the answers. None of us do. But some people here are much, much wiser and more well-versed in the industry than you or I. Given time and careful listening and a willingness to learn, you'll come to realize how silly some of this is.

  • Disney owns and operates, owns, or licenses its likeness to world-class, international-destination parks in leading global cities: Hong Kong, Shanghai, Tokyo, Paris, Los Angeles... Consider: do you really think that Disney considered - much less made an actual bid - for a chain of seasonal coaster thrill parks throughout the Midwest? Come on. Think about that. I'm sure you've heard from a friend of a friend whose cousin worked at Kings Island back then that Disney made an offer. You're being told now by those much wiser and more versed in the industry that it's not true. You don't have to believe it, but think about it.
  • Universal, as the Interpreter mentioned, was at the time owned by a company eager to unload non-core business assets. They didn't want their own parks, much less to acquire more.
  • Herschend couldn't have afforded the Paramount Parks... Not to buy them or to keep them running if they had. And you say Cedar Fair bit off more than it could chew, and you wish HERSCHEND FAMILY ENTERTAINMENT had bought the parks? Oh, my...
  • Six Flags was under massive debt. In 2004, they unloaded all of their European parks and Ohio's Worlds of Adventure (selling it at a MASSIVE loss... tens of millions of dollars less than what they'd spent on the park in the five years prior). They next years, they closed or sold Six Flags AstroWorld, Frontier City and Whitewater Bay just to try to make some money to avoid bankruptcy as the company's stock plummeted. They sold an additional six parks in 2007... right about the time that you claim they made an offer to BUY Paramount Parks for a billion dollars! (By the way, Six Flags ended up filing for bankruptcy just two years later... And you think they were in a buying mood?!)
  • Anheuser-Busch, like Universal, was eager to let go of the theme parks in its portfolio, not take on more. It was a time when companies were unloading their non-core assets. CBS / Paramount / Viacom was a production company. Even if the parks were nice, they were not part of their core business. Owning parks did not benefit their production company or studios. Same with Anheuser-Busch, whose business was beer. As nice as the parks were, they were NOT part of the core business, so they were to be unloaded.

The point is that, to those of us who have been around / been in the industry / were here on Kings Island message boards before, during, and after the Paramount Parks sale, it sounds really silly for you to say, "The following companies were interested in buying the Paramount Parks:" then proceed to list every amusement park operator you can think of. No matter what you've heard from friends or what you've told your friends so many times it seems true, there are actual facts to consider, and people who actually have memories of that time.

Similarly, some of us were around during the Apollo debacle. Some of us here are privy to the inside information, and have an intimate understanding of the ins-and-outs of that transaction. It's alright that you don't. I don't either. But trust the folks who do before you decide you know all of the information and go around spouting it. Your friends might blindly go, "Wow! I didn't know that!" But here, you're among folks who actually know their stuff. Herschend buying the Paramount Parks?

You'd be surprised how much these theme park companies wanted us. Don't judge a book by its cover. Herschened looks like it couldn't afford it but they would really push for it. Disney would go where the money is and would want their own thrill rides.

Just... relax. You don't have to pretend to be an insider.

We've all got a lot to learn. Sit back, relax, read, search, think, and ask questions.

It's fun to imagine what a Disney's Kings Island could / could've looked like. It's another for you to tell us matter-of-factly that Disney made an offer to buy some roller coaster thrill park in Ohio. It's just not true. Sorry.

I'm good. I just get upset when I ask people to use their imaginations on other companies owning KI and they just try to make me look stupid. You showed a more informative way so I like your response. It's just others where it looks like their making fun if me. (I've been bullied before and I often take things they wrong way. So I apologize to everyone for my attitude.)
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malem KIC Legend

malem

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Posted

^ Never be afraid to learn or to admit when you don't know (or have bad information). No one is always right.

People replying to your posts were not trying to make fun of you. Content posted to public message boards is subject to critique from other contributors. The hope is that people learn from each other and have an enjoyable discussion.

If someone claims that your statement is inaccurate, it can help to do some research before posting a rebuttal. Reading the same argument over and over is annoying to your audience.

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KIFan1 KIC Tourist

KIFan1

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^ Never be afraid to learn or to admit when you don't know (or have bad information). No one is always right.People replying to your posts were not trying to make fun of you. Content posted to public message boards is subject to critique from other contributors. The hope is that people learn from each other and have an enjoyable discussion.If someone claims that your statement is inaccurate, it can help to do some research before posting a rebuttal. Reading the same argument over and over is annoying to your audience.

Thanks! I want to enjoy the posts and have fun but I just want people to use their imaginations and not just look at KI owned by a different company realistically.
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