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Dalefan

Should Kings Island get a record breaking coaster?

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Should Kings Island get a record breaking coaster? This applys to any type of steel coasters loop or non loop.

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Even though we have all of the wooden roller coaster records basically, I still think we need a good record breaking steel coaster of some sorts.. just my personal opinion. Althought it probably wont ever happen due to Cedar Point being just north of us

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All the wood coaster records?

Steepest drop?

Oldest?

Most historically significant?

Besides, make no mistake about it...if there is a record breaking coaster put in the Cedar Fair chain, the chances are nearly 100 percent that it will be within feet, not miles, of Lake Erie.

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See, that makes me worry. If KI starts to outdraw CP (as it has been known to in the past), will CF embrace KI as being a winning park or arrogantly take ephasis off of KI and put more on CP?

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I wouldn't think just because Cedar Point and Kings Island is owned by the same company that they would say hey lets put this record breaker in Cedar Point, lets totally forget about KI. Remember both parks bring in different people.

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I think they would do both. I think they would embrace a money making park so as to help recoupe the payout for the parks. At the same time I think they will keep the rivalry going between the parks and I think CP will always be their #1 park. Which really is the way it should be, it's THE CF park, it came far before KI and when it come to thrills is the best park in the world.

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See, that makes me worry. If KI starts to outdraw CP (as it has been known to in the past), will CF embrace KI as being a winning park or arrogantly take ephasis off of KI and put more on CP?

I do want to point out that while it looks good on paper the number of guests a park draws is not really the important figure here. Cedar Point makes a LOT more money then Kings Island. This is from a number of factors. First guests spend more money on average at Cedar Point then Kings Island. Also Cedar Fair owns a lot of other attractions in the area. This includes the marina, several hotels, and the separate water park. If Kings Island brought in as much money as Cedar Point (and I doubt it could without hotels owned by Cedar Fair) then you might see as big of installs. According to Cedar Fair the amount of money a park gets spent on improvements is based on the profits made at the park not attendance.

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And KI was the Flagship Paramount Park, that's why they should continue to invest good rides into KI.

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But the Paramount Park with the most attendance (and perhaps the most profits, but park by park breakdowns were not released) was Canada's Wonderland.

And Cedar Fair Entertainment Company has made QUITE clear it will no longer release park-by-park attendance figures. If Kings Island DOES draw more visitors than Cedar Point, the chances are excellent no one outside the company will KNOW for sure.

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Yes, part of why Cedar Point has received large installs is because Cedar Fair owns a lot of hotels up there. So in order to keep those full, they have to give guests a reason to return to the park year after year.

That being said, I doubt that Cedar Fair will simply 'forget' about Kings Island. Apparently, Kings Island is a park that Dick Kinzel thinks very highly of, and was in part one of the handful of reasons why he wanted to buy the Paramount Parks. Heck, in this first year of ownership from Cedar Fair, KI is receiving $10 million in capital expenditures, which is more than what some of the other Paramount Parks are receiving for this season. True, it is not as much as what Cedar Point is receiving for this season, but Cedar Fair didn`t have a lot of time to implement a capital expenditure program at the Paramount Parks for this year.

While some people are disappointed that Kings Island is getting a "used" ride from another park, it does not bother me. I enjoyed X-Flight when I visited that park back in 2002. It will be a ride that will be a welcome addition to the park, and the public will quickly embrace the ride. Plus, if the park can get Son of Beast rolling at some point this year, Firehawk will increase the overall park capacity, which is always a plus.

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See, that makes me worry. If KI starts to outdraw CP (as it has been known to in the past), will CF embrace KI as being a winning park or arrogantly take ephasis off of KI and put more on CP?

Ryan that is were I think you are wrong. Cedar Fair isn't Six Flags and they truly now how to run a theme park empire. If Kings Island starts making more money than Cedar Point so what. Kings Island has a lot more room for them to expand than Cedar Point giving it a chance to outgrow Cedar Point. If Kings Island did in fact start to draw more out of towers I think Cedar Fair may just go with the flow and keep doing what they have been doing.

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As some of you said, Cedar Point brings in more money. While i am not 100% that it's true, it only makes sense if it is, since KI doesn't bring in nearly as many outside visitors as CP; visitors who simply come in one or two days and spend lots of money. KI has a lot of pass holders. They don't spend as much money.

A record breaking coaster may bring in those one time visitors, but that's debatable, I think.

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Actually, back around the middle of last year, they said how much revenue each park brought in. Cedar Point brought in a lot more money, but that was because it included all the resorts that Cedar Fair also owns up there.

I wouldn`t necessarily say that CP brings in more out of towners compared to Kings Island. While Kings Island may indeed have more season pass holders, that doesn`t mean that pass holders don`t spend anything in the park. Why do you think they brought back the Gold Season passes? It is loaded with perks to get the pass holders to visit the park often, which will entice them to spend more money in the park.

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See, that makes me worry. If KI starts to outdraw CP (as it has been known to in the past), will CF embrace KI as being a winning park or arrogantly take ephasis off of KI and put more on CP?

I think that depends on whos still holding the reins of the chain. It's obvious that CF has made som arrogant decisions in the past and has had a pretty arrogant attitude that hasn't always shaped out well for them. With Kinzel right now I dont see them ignoring parks like KI and Wonderland that do very well but I still see them catering to CP a lot more.

See, that makes me worry. If KI starts to outdraw CP (as it has been known to in the past), will CF embrace KI as being a winning park or arrogantly take ephasis off of KI and put more on CP?

I do want to point out that while it looks good on paper the number of guests a park draws is not really the important figure here. Cedar Point makes a LOT more money then Kings Island. This is from a number of factors. First guests spend more money on average at Cedar Point then Kings Island. Also Cedar Fair owns a lot of other attractions in the area. This includes the marina, several hotels, and the separate water park. If Kings Island brought in as much money as Cedar Point (and I doubt it could without hotels owned by Cedar Fair) then you might see as big of installs. According to Cedar Fair the amount of money a park gets spent on improvements is based on the profits made at the park not attendance.

Do you have a link to the actual figures of how much each park makes?

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In the end money talks...and ignorance walks.

Take it for what you will!

If Cedar Point ignores Kings Island they will lose a large chunk of profits, no matter how much is added to Cedar Point they will not make up for these valuable sums! This is afterall why they bought the Paramount chain! As far as the money, by building on to Kings Island they have the possibility to inevitably gain more profits than what is gained from Cedar Point. Kings Island could become not only a regional destination but in due time, a true vacation getaway. I am quite sure that Cedar Fair will not ignore this!

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All the wood coaster records?

Steepest drop?

Oldest?

Most historically significant?

Besides, make no mistake about it...if there is a record breaking coaster put in the Cedar Fair chain, the chances are nearly 100 percent that it will be within feet, not miles, of Lake Erie.

I'm pretty sure I didnt say all .. I said basically all of them which with the 3 you named off, we basically have all them

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I like to see a new type of coaster at Kings Island. Also Cedar Point and Dollywood are showing this year you don't need a record braking coaster to get guest to come to the park.

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We Need a huge steel coaster . Record breaking not really. Hopefully Vortex under Cedar Fair maintenance will be around for a long time to come. But Kings Island will get I feel a huge coaster.

That is steel.

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I think KI has enough wooden coasters, we definitely need some more steel ones. They are an entirely separate thing from the wood coasters we have.

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I like to see a new type of coaster at Kings Island. Also Cedar Point and Dollywood are showing this year you don't need a record braking coaster to get guest to come to the park.

How do you know it will bring more people to the park. The year hasn't happened yet.

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All the wood coaster records?

Steepest drop?

Oldest?

Most historically significant?

Besides, make no mistake about it...if there is a record breaking coaster put in the Cedar Fair chain, the chances are nearly 100 percent that it will be within feet, not miles, of Lake Erie.

Most historically significant is debatable... Not everyone will eventually agree on one, but look at The Beast. It set the standard for wooden coasters. But then even look at the coaster that lead to The Beast... The Racer. The Racer showed that the public still enjoyed wooden coasters, and it defiantly lead to multiple coasters being built.

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Uh...

Leap the Dips?

The Coney Island Cyclone?

The Bobs at Riverview?

As for steepest drop on a wooden coaster, that's El Toro...nothing at Kings Island comes even close. Voyage does (it was announced as having the steepest drop, but right after that El Toro was announced), but last I heard that's over in Indiana...

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Im pretty sure the most historical coaster was started in Russia on one December day, back in 1874. But then again, its debatable! ;)

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Ok, who will be the first member here to point out that those are 2005 numbers? c'mon, roll up, roll up! Place your bets here!

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I think this whole subject is more complex than what is being discussed here to date. There are many factors that a company like Cedar Fair or any other leisure business would weigh in:

1. Current market share and potential market share not tapped.

2. Regional Economic factors.

3. Competition.

4. Park potential and land availability for expansion.

5. Marketing.

6. Keeping tabs on customer needs and concerns. (And following through on making changes).

7. Having a balance of rides, attractions, and entertainment for the WHOLE Family.

8. Having balance between reasonable prices for food and merchandise and good quality products.

Of course, you can certainly break down these catagories further and I am sure Cedar Fair does.

I think most of us would love to have a major coaster installed. But look at Geauga lake. Two coasters are gone and one of those is at KI for 2007. I don't think CF is getting a good return back from the attractions, based on the attendance for GL. I think Six Flags took the the "Field of Dreams" approach to GL and they DID NOT come (at least in the numbers that SF expected). I think CF took the approach to lay low for a couple of seasons to see if they could turn things around and they realized they needed to take drastic action to re-make GL's image. The problem is it will take several years to change the park. That goes the same for KI, KD, CWonderland, Carowinds, etc.

I believe that Cedar Fair will have to change their thinking now that they consist of 15-17 parks. Don't get me wrong, Cedar Point will have to be high on their list because it is currently their only major full resort in existance. They have quite a bit of money tied up in that resort and they have to keep it up and improve it.

But, they now own five new parks of which all have drawn greater attendance that any existing CF property with the exception of Cedar Point and Knott's Berry Farm (well, I thought KI CWonderland drew more than CP). So Cedar Fair can't ignore those new properties either.

My home park is Kings Dominion and, as you are aware, we are getting 3 major additons to the water park. The other two parks in the Cedar Fair Southern Division, Carowinds and World/Oceans of Fun are getting general park improvements this year. Carowinds is getting their 360 swingin ship back and an figure skating show.

CWonderland is getting 2 brand new restaurants and a expanded show schedule with both the ice skating show and the twisting to the 60's show as well. Great America is getting a new wave pool. You folks are getting Night Hawk and probably an expanded show schedule.

So, given the fact that CF just paid over a billion dollars for all the paramount parks, plus took us over in the middle of a season, I think we did not come out too bad for 2007. Can you imagine what the parks would be like iF CBS was running them for 2007?

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Very thoughtful post. It's Firehawk, by the way...

And I don't even want to think about what CBS would be doing with the parks right now, based on what I saw last year.

It's just too depressing.

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Well, I believe that Cedar Fair owns at least one, if not more than one, hotel by Knott`s Berry Farm in CA. Also, Cedar Fair owns 12 amusement parks, not including their management contract for Gilroy Gardens (formerly Bonfante Gardens), Star Trek: The Experience or their separate gated water parks.

Also, while it will take some time to integrate the Cedar Fair philosophy into the former Paramount Parks, it won`t be quite the transformation that Cedar Fair has been, and still is, trying to do at Geauga Lake. That is due in large part because of the fact that the Paramount Parks were generally well run parks (at least they were before CBS got total control of the parks at the start of 2006). While Six Flags didn`t do the best things for Geauga Lake, and Cedar Fair is having to deal with those issues still, even after owning that park for several years.

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