4/29/07 the good and the bad

[Mikewhy]

You are right about people not reading the signs or even the map. People on HERE who should know better have made statements like it is okay to get out of line and then back in if you have to go to the restrooms. Then you have EMPLOYEES of the park telling people they can drink beer in ride lines when it is explicitly forbidden. So when people who work at the park or who frequent this forum are clueless about the rules clearly printed on the park map, imagine how the truly rude or obnoxious people are going to be! They simply do not read any signs or rules, and even if they did, they would ignore them. That is why the park needs to try harder to enforce the rules. The incident at The Beast is a symptom of the park not trying hard enough to change things. I hope they take this event seriously and do something.

[The Interpreter]

It is also up to individual guests to report to the ride ops about particular guests who are line jumping. If nobody tells the ops, then nothing can be done. I have seen cases where people have reported a problem, the line jumper has gotten up to the platform to be next on and security escorts them from the ride.

It has been my recent experience that ride ops are powerless to do anything about line jumping unless they SEE it happening. I understand why, too. Let's say someone who doesn't like you very much tells the ride ops YOU line jumped...when you in fact had not. The ride ops take the reporter's word for it, not believeing you (as it is a well known fact that virtually all linejumpers claim they did not do so). You are then escorted from the park by security; perhaps even losing your season pass in the process. For many people, their next step would be to see a lawyer. Let's see; I can hear it now: wrongful imprisonment, false arrest, public humiliation, breach of contract, the list goes on and on. The same thing can happen even if the reported line jumper did in fact line jump. And oh, by the way, I bet anything the person who reported the linejumper would be unwilling to testify in court, could not be found, or would change his or her story. And even that person could possibly be named in any legal action against the park by the party(ies) escorted from the park.

Guests physically stopping the linejumper is also not a good idea. Not only could you get hurt, but there is the possibility they could claim you intentionally caused them injury and/or a large fight could start and you could be charged with some sort of criminal action as well. Assault, battery and other offenses come to mind. Yes, you may have defenses, but who wants to be charged with a crime? Who wants to pay big money to defend themselves for doing what the PARK should be doing--trying to stop linejumping.

The park needs more security and more eyes of its own watching the guests. Even the presence of a dee-jay can help, as that is another set of park eyes watching the lines.

I saw more line jumping opening weekend at Kings Island than I have ever seen before.

Kings Island was always known for how little of this type of activity there was. This problem needs to be nipped in the bud before something really bad happens.

Lastly, ironically, parks are now starting to SELL linejumping privileges. At Six Flags, they call it Flashpass. At Cedar Point, it is the VIP program. In any event, all those programs do is SELL the right to cut ahead of others who are waiting. I, for one, believe that helps to breed a disrespect for the concept of waiting one's turn, and for order and peacefulness in a park.

[Browntggrr]

After taking a night of thinking about this...

There needs to be a bigger feeling of the park security presence. Typically, if someone views a person of authority, they tend to walk a strait line. Perhaps the park has not been fully staffed with security personnel due to being early in the season, which does make sense. But once the season is in full swing, will there be security present on the platform for the last couple hours of the day? (On Beast & Firehawk)

[CoastersRZ]

Well, I know that last October, it was not uncommon to see a security guard standing on Beast`s exit ramp for the last couple hours of the night. Especially for the last couple of rides of the night.

[marlfox_21]

I have to completely agree with you when it comes to teenagers and younger adults not acting their age and displaying total disrespect towards nearly everyone around them. Blowing smoke in peoples faces ( with children around ) and cutting in line does rank pretty high on the list these days.

They are old enough to read the signs that clearly state that these such behaviors are not tolerated by the park, and they are simply old enough to not have to be RETOLD these behaviors anyways. The problem is that they are simply to ignorant to care. This is more than simply disrespectful behavior at amusement and theme parks. This has to do with their upbringing, and how well their parents raised them. And it also reflects the local school sytems success at producing mature and responsible adults. In a society that does not allow discipline, kids are learning that they may behave in whatever manner that they want. I am not saying to beat kids down, but I am saying that if parents and schools were allowed to perform discipline on misbehaving children, I think that it would dramatically reflect in the world in which we live. And I mean in a positive way.

m.f.21

[PKIVortex]

Well for one thing, teenagers now a days a much different then say when I was a teenager, 10 years ago. Parents also don't seem to car now a days what there kids to either.

[Browntggrr]

And it also reflects the local school sytems success at producing mature and responsible adults. In a society that does not allow discipline, kids are learning that they may behave in whatever manner that they want. I am not saying to beat kids down, but I am saying that if parents and schools were allowed to perform discipline on misbehaving children

m.f.21

You really can't blame the schools. Like you said, the amount of discipline that a school can hand down has been dramatically cut. At this point, the most a school can do is detention, ISS, or OSS. All three forms of discipline are effective, as long as the parent at home is enforcing it as well.

In detention the student has to either find a way to school early, late, or on a Saturday. In most cases if the parent does not drop them off/ pick up, the student does not care to go, or just won't go at all.

ISS is a great form of discipline, but now you are taking away from the student in the classroom.

OSS is just a free vacation. Chances are, the parent is not home anyway due to work responsibilities.

Bottom line, it all starts at home. If the parent does not care about the child's well being, the child will grow up not caring about anyone else.

Now if you could just give an unruly kid a swift hit with a large piece of wood, it could solve some problems.

[Guest kwindshawne]

I have to completely agree with you when it comes to teenagers and younger adults not acting their age and displaying total disrespect towards nearly everyone around them. Blowing smoke in peoples faces ( with children around ) and cutting in line does rank pretty high on the list these days.

They are old enough to read the signs that clearly state that these such behaviors are not tolerated by the park, and they are simply old enough to not have to be RETOLD these behaviors anyways. The problem is that they are simply to ignorant to care. This is more than simply disrespectful behavior at amusement and theme parks. This has to do with their upbringing, and how well their parents raised them. And it also reflects the local school sytems success at producing mature and responsible adults. In a society that does not allow discipline, kids are learning that they may behave in whatever manner that they want. I am not saying to beat kids down, but I am saying that if parents and schools were allowed to perform discipline on misbehaving children, I think that it would dramatically reflect in the world in which we live. And I mean in a positive way.

m.f.21

Well said. Big difference in the way I was raised and the way it is done now. Parents are afraid to discipline their kids, because some one who has no idea butts in and gets the law involved and the parents end up in jail for doing their job-the kids know this and that is why they act the way they do. And I have a really big problem with that.

The fast pass and such has also contributed to the problem. In my view, that was another "hollywood" type notion paramount came up with that taught everyone that with a little money, you would get special treatment. May take a few years to correct the damage from that line of thinking. When I came back here and saw they were doing that, all I could think was-i just left that mess in Cali, and here it is in Ohio

[Guest kwindshawne]

And it also reflects the local school sytems success at producing mature and responsible adults. In a society that does not allow discipline, kids are learning that they may behave in whatever manner that they want. I am not saying to beat kids down, but I am saying that if parents and schools were allowed to perform discipline on misbehaving children

m.f.21

You really can't blame the schools. Like you said, the amount of discipline that a school can hand down has been dramatically cut. At this point, the most a school can do is detention, ISS, or OSS. All three forms of discipline are effective, as long as the parent at home is enforcing it as well.

In detention the student has to either find a way to school early, late, or on a Saturday. In most cases if the parent does not drop them off/ pick up, the student does not care to go, or just won't go at all.

ISS is a great form of discipline, but now you are taking away from the student in the classroom.

OSS is just a free vacation. Chances are, the parent is not home anyway due to work responsibilities.

Bottom line, it all starts at home. If the parent does not care about the child's well being, the child will grow up not caring about anyone else.

Now if you could just give an unruly kid a swift hit with a large piece of wood, it could solve some problems.

Much different now-when I was in school and you screwed up, you got your ass beat...our principal had holes in the paddle for better swing action.

[The Interpreter]

This is no place for that particular argument, but I fail to see how authority figures beating kids instills respect for authority or for doing the right thing. After all, society quit flogging adults back in the 1800's....

[droid72]

This is no place for that particular argument, but I fail to see how authority figures beating kids instills respect for authority or for doing the right thing. After all, society quit flogging adults back in the 1800's....

I don't know... We're all so very delicate and self-entitled these days in this zero-consequence, non-judgemental society. It might be "insensitive," and "offensive," but some people need a good kick in the butt. Especially grubby little punk line jumpers. Oops, that's not PC!

[Guest kwindshawne]

This is no place for that particular argument, but I fail to see how authority figures beating kids instills respect for authority or for doing the right thing. After all, society quit flogging adults back in the 1800's....

I don't know... We're all so very delicate and self-entitled these days in this zero-consequence, non-judgemental society. It might be "insensitive," and "offensive," but some people need a good kick in the butt. Especially grubby little punk line jumpers. Oops, that's not PC!

You hit the nail right on the head.

[AvatarOp16]

I really do want to apologize to everyone who has had people line jump in front of them. Many of us are doing the best we can to watch the lines well enough to prevent it, but we simply can't do everything at once. If you ever come upon a situation where someone does line jump you, please tell the nearest ride op. Even if the person is already on the ride, many of us will take the time to talk with them once they are off the ride. As for the people who used the excuse they were in line, and had to go to the restroom, that does not matter at KI. If we let one person use that excuse, we would have to let everyone. If you see it happening, please let a ride op know, and we'll do our best to take care of it. I hate to see people who follow the rules have their day ruined by someone who can't act like they were raised properly.

[Browntggrr]

I really do want to apologize to everyone who has had people line jump in front of them. Many of us are doing the best we can to watch the lines well enough to prevent it, but we simply can't do everything at once.

You have no reason to apologize. It is not your fault, nor is it the park's fault. There are just some individuals that think they are above the rules.

... but thanks for the info!

[marlfox_21]

I really do want to apologize to everyone who has had people line jump in front of them. Many of us are doing the best we can to watch the lines well enough to prevent it, but we simply can't do everything at once. If you ever come upon a situation where someone does line jump you, please tell the nearest ride op. Even if the person is already on the ride, many of us will take the time to talk with them once they are off the ride. As for the people who used the excuse they were in line, and had to go to the restroom, that does not matter at KI. If we let one person use that excuse, we would have to let everyone. If you see it happening, please let a ride op know, and we'll do our best to take care of it. I hate to see people who follow the rules have their day ruined by someone who can't act like they were raised properly.

The park should experiment with new ways of punishing people for line jumping. Because chances are, if they are permitted to walk away from one ride, having already accomplished the completion of the ride, they are going to perform the behavior at the next ride as well. Even if they are spoken to. Because that ride attendant that informs them of the zero toleration of the behavior is not going to be able to follow them through the park to the next ride. So the next attendant has no idea.

If I could make a recomendation, that would not be popular, but would be effective, the park should consider WRISTBANDS, that are given to the participants who line jump ( only when there is a 100% confidence level of the behavior occuring. ) The wrist bands could have a time printed on them, indicating the time of the incident, and should ban the bearer of such from riding another ride until One full hour has passed. Does it sound like they are wasting money. Not if they are clearly informed of this before anything happens. And they still get to enjoy the park for the day. It would be better than being escorted out of the park without a discount. And if they are caught trying to perform the action again while wearing the band, the next printed band will ban the bearer for 2 hours and so on.

This is just a spur of the moment idea. I'm sure there are some loose strings attatched in this brief description, but you get the point.

m.f.21

[PKIVortex]

What would stop said Guest from just removing the wrist band themselves? I like the way you think, but this policy would probably be hard to follow.

[The Interpreter]

The remedy for line jumping is NOT a wristband. Rather it should be ejection from the park without refund. The first time. Every time. And revocation of said guest's season pass, should they have one.

[Browntggrr]

The only way to enforce the line jumping policy is to remove the individual from the park. Obviously each individual case is different. I consider line jumping into two different catagories: 1.) Blatently jumping the queue line- this is the most obvious or 2.) trying to catch up with someone that is ahead of you in line- this is the most common.

Yes, #2 is considered line jumping. But if a person was getting a drink from a vending machine that was in line, or using the test seat and their party continued through the line, or uses the "If I don't pee now it is the bush in the corner- or your leg". This is not as bad, and is usually not intended to be line jumping. These individuals just need to be told on what is accecptable and what is not. Once the individual has been "coached" take their id, name, what they are wearing, friends they are with etc., and document it. If there is another reported instance of line jumping, then escort them from the park.

If they are over the age of 16, chances are they have some type of ID. If they don't have ID, be sure to try and document as much about the person & the group they are with to scare the crap out of them so that it doesn't happen again.

There are ways to get away with anything (see OJ Simpson). Is there one thing that can solve the problem?- NO. But it needs to start somewhere.

The park needs to enforce the rules. If they don't, the infractions will continue & also get worse.

[PKIVortex]

Yes that is right, but before that can happen they need to catch them. I think that is major problem right now, the lack of Greeters at lines. If they would have a Greeter at The Beast last Sunday they would have caught those girls running ahead of me like that.

[Cory Butcher]

As has been said here, the number one step in discipline of offenders is detection. That really is in the hands of the many riders in line as there are a limited number of rides that usually have a specific "greeter". Its quite hard for the driver or personell checking restraints to keep guests safe to stop what they are doing and admonish the line jumper, or as has been the case in my instance several times...cursors. there is maybe 35 seconds if that, at least on my ride, where a person unloading a train or checking bars can actually get all the information needed on a line jumper and then talk with the accused.

With the rule on cursing, we must be notified by two (2) parties, in order to remove a person or persons from a train. I have used that rule a couple times this year and made a party, with the help and consent of my co-workers, forfeit their ride due to unruly behavior. I for one take great pride in making sure that you all have a wonderful care-free day at Kings Island! And for those who have seen me at the park, I take any time I can to talk with the guests, and wish them a great day!

[DropZone99]

Is anyone going May 12th.???

I should be.

=]

[PKIVortex]

What do you look like Cory, It's so hard to read this new name tags, I'll look for ya.

[The Interpreter]

Hard to read employee name tags promote customer service exactly how?

[Cory Butcher]

What do you look like Cory, It's so hard to read this new name tags, I'll look for ya.

Well, there is a decent picture of me on my profile on here! Come to IJ and you're sure to see me if I'm working! People are always saying hi to me and thanks and using my first name when I say have a great day or something nice to them; and im like, how do they know my name....oh, nametag, haha!

^one of the perks to being friendly and cordial to people!^

Anyways, Im 5'8", brown hair, athletic build....starting to sound like a dating site! lol

But, yeah, come on down and say hi! my picture is on here, or my myspace! (www.myspace.com/butchmanwr85)

[PKIVortex]

LOL, I'll be back at the park on May 18th, and then again on May 30th. If you work and if I see you I'll say hi.

[Cory Butcher]

I will be at the park All Day on May 18th! The only time you wouldn't see me, is during break!

[Browntggrr]

This is the cure for line jumpers & those who choose to smoke in line:

http://www.1010wins.com/pages/488617.php?c...ontentId=528161

Seriously though, could KI security be allowed to use a taser?

[shadow2k3]

I really wouldn't want to venture into taser territory. That would just open up massive controversy on both ends. But I guess they had to be subdued somehow. Either way, some of these kids need to grow up and learn to behave themselves in a public place like an amusement park. They should know better.

-S