DispatchMaster
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Posts posted by DispatchMaster
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The picture seems to have been unauthorized, so it's possible they had planned to announce it at a time of their choosing, but were forced to respond to an earlier than expected press request.
Also pretty stupid of whoever took that photo to not be more careful. It won't be difficult for the park to figure out who took it, considering you can see the side of their vehicle in the photo...
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I cannot imagine a ride of this scope and complexity hasn't been testing already for some time now.
A ride like this is almost certainly going to be considerably more complex compared to any roller coaster, at least from a controls perspective. And as the controls system complexity increases, so too do the number of potential failure modes, etc. All of that takes time to work through.
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18 hours ago, CedarPointer said:
Is their excuse really going to be that they meant it was the lowest price of 2025 on 2026 passes?
I don't see how anyone could take "lowest price of the year" to mean anything other than the year 2025... What else would "year" refer to?
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On 2/19/2026 at 12:55 PM, Orion-XL200 said:
a $300 discount on a product I paid $999 for just because of their pass type
I'm sure this is ignorance on my part, but how are folks getting what is effectively a $300 discount? Is it because the pass itself is $~300 cheaper? Because at the Midwest parks it seems all season Fast Lane is still $1,000.
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I wouldn't worry so much about the price itself - it was either "worth it" to you or not at $1,000. But the issue I see is that cutting the price in half will likely saturate and dilute FL/FLP even further than it already is. The daily prices have been far too low, and so too have the season long FLP passes, judging by the ever-increasing FL/FLP queues.
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On 2/19/2026 at 12:55 PM, Orion-XL200 said:
Yeah, I'm not happy with others getting a $300 discount on a product I paid $999 for just because of their pass type.
I haven't been following the SF pass strategy insanity closely. What are you referring to here?
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13 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:
Construction projects have deadlines and it mostly just takes good planning to ensure each opening date is reached.
Are you familiar with the "fast, cheap, good - pick two" axiom? The idea is that a project/product can be any two at the expense of the third:
- It can be done fast and cheap, but it won't be good.
- It can be done cheap and good, but it won't be fast.
- It can be done fast and good, but it won't be cheap.
Obviously the park cannot sacrifice the "good" component, so you're left with options 2 or 3. And considering park installations are meant to provide entertainment value for decades, it's hard to justify spending significant sums of money to achieve "fast", when all that really means is opening a few weeks earlier for a product that is expected to operate, say, 400 weeks over its lifetime. Does it make fiscal sense to increase a budget by several percent to achieve an additional <1% of operating weeks? Parks seem to have settled on "no" for that answer, which makes sense.
14 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:AlpenFury didn't open until the middle of July and left Canada's Wonderland Silver Pass holders with only 1.5 months to experience it instead of the full 4-ish
I don't recall the announcement. Was AlpenFury ever announced to be opening on the park's opening day? Or was it announced to be opening "this summer" or whatever? Because if it's the latter, it makes no difference what pass holders expected. They were provide what the park announced - a new coaster that opened in the summer.
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8 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:
I think the main question is if we will see a return to the standard of a ride opening with the park or not.
New rides, in general, are often bigger and more complex than they were back in the day, and the off season is as short or shorter than ever for many parks, with Halloween and other holiday events.
I think that, in combination with parks realizing that it's not essential to have a ride open when the parks aren't even that busy (the bulk of business is done in July and August), means rides opening during the season has become the new standard.
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On 2/3/2026 at 2:13 AM, Losantiville Mining Co. said:
I'm still hung up on the idea that it would take two straight months of work to program the whole ride. Would they not be working all week (40 hours) every week to get it ready starting in March?
I have no information nor opinion on when the ride will open, but coming from the world of industrial automation, which this ride essentially is, it would not be the least bit surprising that it would take a couple of months to program and debug this thing. It's a very complex machine, with hundreds, if not thousands, of sensors, relays, contactors, pneumatic and/or servo actuators, safety systems, audiovisual hardware and software, PLCs, HMIs, etc., all subject to hardware infant mortality, all of which is designed to be efficiently and safely operated by minimum wage operators. No small task!
When automated systems are complex, the number of failure modes skyrockets to the point that debug alone can take quite a while (think ~10 engineers & technicians working 6 or 7 12-hour days for weeks), to say nothing of the programming itself. For example, a typical automotive automated production system will run in debug for ~3 weeks once the hardware is "on its feet" to try to identify the myriad ways in which it can fail. Plus, even with those failure modes addressed, it will go on to exhibit dozens more failure modes once released to the wild.
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19 hours ago, DonHelbig said:
I was there. Directly involved.
OK, fair enough. So then how were you able to decipher between the pandemic's impact on attendance versus impact of sentiment towards the ride? In other words, what percentage or portion of the depressed attendance could be attributed to each factor?
To be clear, it's not as though I disagree with the overall opinion, it's just the leap from that to effectively saying definitively that attendance and ROI were lower than expected solely or even primarily because of that opinion, when there was also a pandemic that prevented the park from opening for ~3 months during the ride's debut year, and limited attendance and ride capacity thereafter. I appreciate the fact that you work in the industry, but I'm also skeptical of the claim, and "trust me" does little to dispel my skepticism.
18 hours ago, DonHelbig said:it’s missing an element that Fury 325 and Diamondback both have that riders absolutely love about those rides: an abundance of airtime.
MF at CP, listed at 6 in that very list, also lacks abundant airtime, FWIW.
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I didn't suggest that it did.
You stated that the installation of Orion did not meet attendance and ROI targets, and seem to be suggesting that the reason it did not do so is because of the supposed guest sentiment that the ride is "just OK".
I'm pointing out that the ride opened during a pandemic, which is a rather monumental factor to consider when trying to analyze attendance and ROI. Therefore, I'm asking how you were able to determine that it was that guest sentiment, rather than a once-in-a-century pandemic, that is primarily to blame for Orion's poor performance.
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16 hours ago, DonHelbig said:
...not a ride that drives attendance. It hasn’t delivered the expected ROI.
I'll grant the sentiment angle, but I would like to hear more about how the attendance and ROI conclusion was reached. It's not as though public companies go out of their way to share data that demonstrates they made a poor 8-figure investment. In fact, public companies are always inclined to do the exact opposite - perform logical acrobatics to spin poor financial performance as the fault of anything other than their decision making.
But more to the point, as Losantiville Mining Co. points out, Orion did not debut in a vacuum! Instead of getting the normal first year bump in attendance - and thus a huge chunk of its expected ROI - Orion debuted during the pandemic, operating a fraction of the expected hours its first year, with limited attendance and capacity. Even in its second year when those restrictions were lessened, a nontrivial number of people simply were not traveling, depressing the park's attendance, and thus further depressing ridership and ROI.
There is no way to definitively untangle those effects versus the effect of the supposed guest sentiment that Orion is "just OK".
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46 minutes ago, Outdoor Man said:
Rank it. 14 coasters; where do you place it?
I will provide you with information that is of equal relevance to your claims about Orion - my ranking of 80's sitcoms:
- Cheers
- Family Ties
- The Cosby Show
- Perfect Strangers
- ALF
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13 hours ago, Outdoor Man said:
Answer my first question instead of commenting on a statement with your own question
I'm asking the question as a means to point out the absurdity of the claims you're making.
You stated that the "typical guest sentiment" is that Orion is "just OK". I'm asking how you arrived at this conclusion. Is there survey data somewhere that leads you to this conclusion?
You then stated that the park should have done something different in order to "sell tickets". I'm asking how you arrived at the conclusion that Orion did not "sell tickets" or otherwise meet the park's desired goals for the investment. Do you have access to the park's expectations for the ride? Or the performance metrics? Anything at all to substantiate the claim you're making?
It's one thing to say that you were personally underwhelmed by the ride, or that you wish they had done something different with the investment. It's another thing entirely to state with certainty that the park isn't hitting its expected attendance marks or that Orion is viewed by guests as underwhelming.
Others have pointed it out, but it bears repeating - enthusiasts generally are not great at understanding what it takes to run a successful, well rounded amusement park, because they tend to assume their own preferences are widely shared by the average guest. That is just not true.
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On 1/15/2026 at 11:26 AM, Outdoor Man said:
create something truly unique that will sell tickets.
Why are you assuming the installation of Orion did not sell tickets? More specifically, why are you assuming the performance of Orion has not or will not meet the targeted goals of the investment?
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9 minutes ago, Outdoor Man said:
typical guest sentiment
Where is this customer feedback?
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On 1/12/2026 at 6:33 PM, KI Guy said:
Orion is widely seen as a fun ride that is just ok.
According to what metrics?
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20 hours ago, KI Guy said:
I do wonder what the appeal of the season long Fast Lane is.
It comes down to how much a given person values their time. If a FL/FLP pass costs, say, $150, and someone values their time at $50/hr, one need only save 3 hours to "break even", which is relatively easy to do. If you get on 6 rides throughout the day and save an average of 30 minutes per ride, you've come out even. Anything more than that and you come out ahead.
Personally, I don't use it to marathon rides or maximize the number of laps I get throughout the day. I use it because I'd rather be enjoying my day at the park without spending the majority of it waiting in line.
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1 hour ago, DonHelbig said:
The survey is doing what they wanted it to do: create a diversion to get people talking about something else besides maze up-charges, rides closed (see KD), parks that could be sold, etc.
They've been sending out these surveys every ~year for several years now, right? If so, what's unique about this year's survey that makes you think it's a distraction?
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It makes more sense to price it high initially and reduce if necessary than it does to do it the other way around.
Interestingly, at CP (where the price is also reduced), both the Haunted Attractions Express Pass and Conjuring tickets are sold out online, but that is not the case for KI.
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14 hours ago, Losantiville Mining Co. said:
Did anyone else see that this might be opened into a manslaughter case?
It is a manslaughter investigation, which simply means they're investigating an accidental death.
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1 hour ago, KI Guy said:
The incalculable value of better park food and happier customers
Why do you assume this would be the result of outsourcing?
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15 hours ago, KI Guy said:
Your assumption is that my model would not work because no large parks are doing it.
No, my position is not that what you are proposing "would not work." I'm saying that there are known built in disadvantages to what you are proposing, and that whatever advantages you're suggesting exist are either nonsensical or not well defined (e.g. "the free market will win the day!", "the human factor!"). And therefore the proposal is, on balance, worse than the modern status quo of fewer, larger centralized food service locations.
15 hours ago, KI Guy said:You are trying to somehow disprove the viability of something before it's even been tested.
What you are proposing are not remotely novel concepts. It's not as though parks don't understand the cost-benefit balance with having an outside vendor sell stuff in their parks compared to selling that stuff themselves. And it's not as though parks don't understand the cost-benefit balance of having multiple small food service locations compared to fewer, larger venues.
15 hours ago, KI Guy said:...a private business might decide it is in their interest to pay its employees more...
So, the downsides are that product costs (lower volume, more waste), operations/infrastructure costs (rent, utilities, etc.), and labor costs (both number of employees and, now, wages) will increase, while overall efficiency/throughput will decrease. It seems, therefore, that quality would have to improve by a massive margin to make it even a wash, much less an improvement.
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On 9/15/2025 at 4:14 PM, KI Guy said:
Just because something has not been done
Except decentralized food service has been done. The only difference you're proposing is that parks have less control over how those food service stands are operated, which isn't a novel idea either.
I also think it's telling that you keep pointing to two relatively tiny parks - IB and Knoebels - as "evidence" that this model can be easily and successfully scaled up, and without providing examples of other similarly sized parks that have done so.
On 9/15/2025 at 9:29 PM, Orion-XL200 said:I literally just said that...
Just because it is your anecdotal experience that the modern food service setup is unsatisfactory does not mean that the average guest agrees.
And even if that were the case, the decentralized food service model offers few, if any, built in advantages that would improve things like quality control, throughput, etc., that would be necessary to improve guest satisfaction.
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Monster appears to be retired ?
in Kings Island
Posted
Sure, but not sure how they're supposed to get in front of an unauthorized photo that was taken and posted in violation of their agreement with vendors? Are they supposed to prepare a media package before moving forward with the actual ride removal?