Benjamin22
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Posts posted by Benjamin22
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1 minute ago, BeastForever said:
What might be surprising to some is if you go back through every major coaster installation that Cedar Fair has added to both KI and CP since being co-owned beginning in 2006, one would notice that the total amount of investment has been roughly similiar, if not in KI's slight favor.
KI:
2007: Firehawk (Don't have an exact source, but I've read on here on multiple ocasion that the cost of relocating X-Flight was comparable to building it up ground-up; for our purposes, I'll estimate $10 million
2009: Diamondback ($22 million)
2014: Banshee ($24 million)
2017: Mystic Timbers (Est. $12 million*)
2020: Project X (Est. $30 million*)
CP
2007: Maverick ($21 million)
2013: GateKeeper ($25 million)
2016: Valravn (Est. $18 million*)
2018: Steel Vengeance (Est. $20 million*)
*As far as I can tell, 2015 appears to be the last year in which Cedar Fair released the official costs or major rides. So in place I put rough estimates based on similar rides.
So in sum, about $95-100 million have been spent on coasters alone at KI, and about $80-85 million respectively spent at Cedar Point.These numbers, of course, do not include the plethora of flat ride, waterpark expansions/improvements, area renovations etc. which both parks have had no shortage of in the past 13 years.
This begs the question, why do some subscribe so firmly to mindset that Cedar Fair has been actively trying to 'check' KI's prominence so as to not diminish the allure of their namesake park. Because "if you watch what they do", one would realize thats not the case at all.
Yes, one could say KI is till solidly behind CP in terms of great (few parks aren't), but thats not out of Cedar Fair's doing. Since 2006, the parks have expanded at basically the same rate.
Its just KI fell so far behind upon getting SOB and TRTR as its big invesemtents at about the same time CP getting MF and TTD. The way I see it, THAT was the cause of the perceived wealth disparity.
Sim ddrough 1996, KI was on par with CP, and since 2007, they've been improving
It’s a very interesting topic if Cedar Fair is trying to intentionally make Kings Island the inferior park, which or course could be argued either ways.
The way I see Kings Island is one of the most important parks for Cedar Fair (Id rank it 3rd) Solely due to the fact it brings in such a large amount of revenue. For this reason Kings Island gets frequent large investments. Often times people say Kings Island won’t get a coaster due to the fact it doesn’t grow, while growth is ideal decline isn’t. As parks age their overall quality diminishes and it’s for this reason we get the rides we get, to maintain Kings Island appeal.
Personally I think Cedar Fairs plan with Kings Island is to let it be a large regional park that doesn’t take the spot light away from Cedar Point. Personally I think this new Giga coaster helps support that theory due to the fact it doesn’t seem to take and record away from Millennium Force. Cedar Points the flagship and because of that had probably gotten nearly 2x as much investments then Kings Island since 2013 (Sports force park, waterpark renovation, Sawmill Creek & Breakers renovation). Cedar Fair has treated Kings Island fantastically these past few years and the park seems like it has a bright future ahead of it.
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Compared to Canada’s wonderland & Carowinds id say we received a very similar amount of investment. Cedar Point obvious receives the most
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7 minutes ago, malem said:
^ Where do you get the option to renew? Typically, links aren't sent out until passes go on sale to the public.
I went to the season pass auto renewal webpage and then clicked onto the portal. Once you type your pass information in I think you press onto enroll and all the season pass addons are shown which includes the Fast Lane option.
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20 minutes ago, malem said:
Some leaked photos on social media show the all-park Fast Lane option for 2020 passes, which aren't on sale yet. Assuming the images are genuine, they were found pre-programmed into the Cedar Fair/Accesso online store. As always, details are never final until they actually go on sale to the public.
The $850 price seems low; it sounds like a great deal for people who often spend their weekends traveling between Cedar Fair parks. The number of passes offered at that price is likely to be very low.If you go onto renew your season pass the option does appear.
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There is now the option for season long Fastlane plus at all Cedar Fair Parks for $850. You would get Fast Lane at every park.
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12 minutes ago, Joncars05 said:
Its okay that you dont think that HW is a major player but they draw over 1 million people a year to SANTA CLAUS, IN!!! They are HOURS away from any major city yet still draw an attendance level on par with Kings Dominion, Dorney Park, California's Great America, and Valleyfair. Based off of attendance levels HW would be in the upper half of Cedar Fair's portfolio if it was owned by CF. I'm not saying HW or KK will take over Kings Island. Of course they won't, they dont have the financial backing of a parent company that owns 11 parks. But they are definitely major players hence why Kings Island started marketing heavy in Indianapolis with they 39.99 deal. The water park at HW is a huge draw and they make a ton of money from it. Just because its a water park doesnt mean its not a juge draw. Good luck getting to ride everything in the water park on one day during the summer. Thats where they make their money. HW is almost a multiday park especially for families. Also HW pulls from St Louis, Indianapolis, Louisville, Cincinnati, and Nashville, I didnt believe it until I went to Nashville and saw multiple HW billboards and tv commercials. Small parks dont advertise in multiple states and in cities 5+ hours away. I understand most people think parks are small because they dont have a 10+ coasters and arent owned by parent companies but they still do have power in the region and luckily KI and CF have taken notice and blessed the park with 3 new coasters, new antique cars, 3 new additions to Planet Snoopy, and a slide complex in Soak City, and many adjustments (International street overhaul, grand carnival, and other additions) and made the all within 6 years. I mean they have built more coasters and had more park improvements than Cedar Point, Knotts Berry Farm, Canada's Wonderland and Carowinds have recieve in the same time. Although each of those parks have higher attendance numbers than Kings Island. I wonder why that is?
I wouldn’t be surprised if Carowinds, Cedar Point & Canadas wonderland have gotten more capital these past few years then Kings Island. As I’ve already stated all the paramount parks have gotten capital due to how mismanaged the parks were, if you compare the 3 they’ve all gotten very similar additions. Yes Kings Island got a coaster but that cost just as much as a hotel.... Kings Island gets as much capital as it does due to the fact it brings in the 3rd most revenue out of the 11 parks. Theme parks age, and if they don’t keep getting investments their revenue stream will eventually decline. It is for these reasons that Kings Island gets as much investment as it does. In my honest opinion I don’t think Holiday world is a major player, yes they do compete with Kings Island but I don’t see them having a major impact on the parks bottom line. Kentucky Kingdom On the other hand could be a major competitor (Hence the major investments the park received in the late 90’s) but due to its lack of large capital investments it isn’t a major threat. Yes it does take a few people from Kings Island but the park is still able to compete due to its large size. The investments Kings Island has received aren’t due to holiday worlds “build up” its due to keeping the park modern and appealing to more distant markets imo.
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1 hour ago, Joncars05 said:
LOL! A park that has brought in over 1 million people every year since 2006 is not a small park. I remember people saying the same thing about Kentucky Kingdom when they opened up. Then after they pulled in over a million visitors with their 39.99 ticket deal, Kings Island responded to that by making their own 39.99 deal with free drinks and parking. If HW and KK were "small players" you wouldnt see the investment of new rides at KI. They have added Banshee, Mystic Timbers, Antique Cars, and this new Giga coaster in the last 6 years... HW has three world class roller coasters (Raven, Voyage, Thunderbird), three world class water rides (Wildebeest, Mammoth, and this new water coaster they are building). They are major players in the region and to diminish HW is not a wise business strategy.
Few things
1- Yes they bring in a decent number of people but to act like they’re a major player in the industry is a tad bit of an overreaction. Sure they have 3 “world class” coasters but when you look past that their lineup falls really short. Still a great park but their lineup needs a lot of work.
2-Kings Island has received pretty much an average amount of investment when you compare it to Canada’s wonderland & Carowinds. All 3 of these paramount parks are receiving similar investments (3 large steel coasters, one of which is a hyper & giga) Yes Kings Island got a wooden coaster while Carowinds got a new waterpark & Hotel. Canada’s wonderland got a few flats & a hotel.
3- The reason Kings Island gets as much money as they do is due to the fact it brings in a lot of revenue. Amusement parks lose value every single year, as rides age their value goes down. For this reason Kings Island gets investments to maintain its value and to maintain its revenue. Yes there’s some competition but the competition isn’t a major threat, Kentucky Kingdom is a small independent park really only draws in the areas around Louisville. Holiday world is also a small park that gets a coaster almost once a decade, they do pull in people from the same market as Kings Island but since Kings Island pulls from more markets it’s not as big as a threat as one might assume.
4-Holiday worlds attendance largely comes from its waterpark, Kings Island on the other hand gets more attendance due to its coaster collection & flat ride. Yes the waterpark is a draw but it’s not a major draw.
Yes Cedar Fair takes the two Parks into account but you have to realize neither of them get enough capital to really threaten Kings Island.
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Just because a ride is a walk doesn’t mean its not popular.... Vortex is a popular ride it just doesn’t have a large line due to how good the capacity is. Not to mention I don’t see staffing being as much of a problem with these new dorms. Let’s all remember Kings Island has a huge family market and if you get rid of 2 48’ rides you’re going to see lines go up and satisfaction going down.
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I mean considering we already now have float storage I could very well see this coming to Kings Islands Winterfest
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15 minutes ago, malem said:
The Haunt site hasn't been updated yet to include what's new for 2019, according to the banner on the top of the page:
Strange then that they include Kings Mills antique autos if the list is out dated
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Looking at the 2018 map I noticed there was a scare zone called wasteland that also doesn’t appear to exist any more.
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I don’t recall seeing that company on the notice of commencement, interesting.
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14 minutes ago, Fitzcoasts14 said:
Leviathan was a prototype and they failed at designing it. It will be nowhere near similar to Leviathan (besides the length).
B&M didn’t fail at anything. Leviathan is just like ever single B&M mega coaster built, same ride systems, same train design ect. If you feel let down by the way Leviathan rides then that’s on Cedar Fair, not B&M.
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Just now, Fitzcoasts14 said:
What if the theme for the new giga were related to millennium force, but they caught the thing creating the millennium force?
I really hope not, I want this ride to have a unique theme, not trying to piggyback off of Millennium Force.
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20 minutes ago, arrold said:
Just got back from the park. Seeing those giant footer holes got me real excited.
Has anyone mentioned the Firehawk trains are finally gone?
They were moved behind a storage container in the old Animal habitat I believe.
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We all can see the petition, it’d probably be best not to spam this thread with 30 post counting up to 1000.
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3 hours ago, presto123 said:
The Beast should be RMC'd. Can you imagine what they could do with that coaster? It would be unreal.
The Beast has a very drawn out low to the ground layout, doesn’t really scream RMC to me.
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I know it won’t happen but I could see a water ride fitting nicely in the Tomb Raider building (Assuming it was finally removed)
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I believe Cedar Point only does fireworks during the light up the point event.
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kind of wish they’d sell copies of these posters after they announce the ride.
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My back does not like the red side, blue feels smoother (assuming you sit in the right row)
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1 hour ago, Steel Maverick said:
It could be intentional diminished hype to totally sneak attack the industry. Holiday World are fun llike that.
Who exactly are they sneak attacking? It’s a small park. As others have mentioned I’d suspect it’ll be a waterpark addition. I don’t know when we’re going to see a new large coaster considering the fact I don’t think Thunderbird did the numbers they were hoping for.
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1 hour ago, flightoffear1996 said:
Why would you put a bunch of money into rethemeing a ride that is mostly likely at the end of its service life. Don’t get me wrong I love Adventure Express and would hate to see it go but one day sooner rather than later I can see it being removed. Maybe not though!
I don’t think it’s really at the end of its service life. I believe S&S is still providing parts for the attraction? Considering how many mine trains have been manufactured. The ride also seems to be very basic, compared to rides such as The Bat.
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Are you referring to the Dinn that was originally going to be in the rivertown area? If that was built (as originally intended) then I think the ride would have eventually been RMC’ed.
Is Kings Island a Have or a Have Not Cedar Fair park?
in Kings Island
Posted
Very interesting topic, both chains at the time of the sale were very similar in terms of attendance, how ever the average revenue per guest was noticeably higher for Cedar Fair compared to Paramount parks. I’d say the Paramount parks need Cedar Fair more then Cedar Fair needed paramount. When you look at the management of Paramount parks it was noticeable that many of their investments were somewhat failures (Hypersonic, SoB etc), granted a lot of this was due to the CEO of the late 90’s and early 2000’s. These parks were in a rough position at the time of the deal, their lineups were quickly falling behind and the overall guest experience continued to fall, these parks had 2 futures - Continue on the path they were on or be sold to another outside firm that believe they could improve the parks. CedarFair, a firm that had plenty of experience was up for the task and knew what worked, large high quality coasters.
Did Cedar Fair need Paramount? No, their chain wasn’t at risk of significantly going bankrupt (pre-paramount) but when you look at Paramount it told a story of something that needed to be changed or else these parks were going to keep heading down a dark path.