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Posts posted by BoddaH1994

  1. 3 hours ago, DiamondbackFan said:

    4. The 2025 notes are secured notes (the parks are collateral for the loan).  Cedar Fair might see an opportunity to replace these notes with new unsecured notes (the parks are not collateral for the loan). Cedar Fair's 2027, 2028, and 2029 notes are unsecured.

    I thought about that too, but do you think they have the capacity to revolve this into an unsecured loan? If so, what are your thoughts on the inherent increased rate? Rate will be higher, plus a premium for unsecured. I suppose we’ll find out the truth soon enough, but if you’re right then it leaves a lot of lingering questions.

  2. On 4/11/2024 at 7:30 PM, Stoan said:

    I like collectible cards, I'm not going to get any of these packs. Unless they sell them in the stores I'm going to miss out entirely.

    They said they are selling a "limited quantity" in the stores. 

    • Like 2
  3. Cedar Fair borrowed money. Unlike a loan like you or I would get, a corporate raises large amounts of capital by selling bonds. When someone buys a bond they will receive their initial investment plus interest. This interest rate is dictated by the rate that The Fed sets. So the company is responsible for replaying the initial investment plus the interest (probably defined as "debt servicing" on the conference calls.)

    Some bonds are "callable." This means that, although the bond matures on a certain date, the company can choose to repay it early. This is a bit of a financial risk to the bond purchaser because they may not receive the anticipated interest amount, so the interest rate is a few basis points higher for these bonds.

    Cedar Fair's bond matures in May of 2025, but they chose to call the bonds now. For long term debt, you simply pay off one bond by selling another.

    Problem is, the rates are WAY higher now due to soaring inflation and a hawkish Fed. So the cost of servicing the debt will be a very heavy burden on their balance sheet. I'm just speculating, but I see a few possibilities for why the debt would be called:

    1. They believe they can revolve (buy another bond) at a lower interest rate (unlikely)

    2. They believe interest rates may be even higher in 2025

    3. They are concerned about being able to secure financing in 2025 (probably post merger)

    If they didn't have this note coming to maturity and/or the rates were lower, the merger would never have been on the table in the first place.


  4. https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240410882251/en/Cedar-Fair-Announces-Conditional-Full-Redemption-of-All-Outstanding-5.500-Notes-Due-May-2025

    This article does not list out reasons and there’s no way to know what happens behind closed doors, but revolving this a year early implies to me that CF may be bearish about the economy as a whole in the short term and fears rates might be higher than they are now. This also may have something administrative to do with the merger, as they may not have a lot of cash on hand when it goes through. 

  5. On 4/10/2024 at 3:18 PM, Outdoor Man said:


    I don't want to split hairs but I think your terminology is a bit off. I didn't finish college with a Finance degree but was many classes in before I switched. And, forgive me because my recollection of certain term meanings as they pertain to day to day operating costs fade into the background- your comparison of "Variable Costs" doesn't see to fit here. To make sure I looked up several exact definitions:  " Variable costs are any expenses that change based on how much a company produces and sells, such as labor, utility expenses, commissions, and raw materials. " So, my mere presence walking the paths or riding a ride doesn't affect any operational piece of the park. These ere on the side more of Fixed Costs (though, in their nature are variable I guess).... employees are there anyway. Actors in shows perform anyway. Lights are on, grass is mowed, landscaping is kept, rides operate, etc... These things occur whether or not I enter the park or not. I'll leave open the possibility that you're approaching this from another angle... but on the surface it sounds wrong.

    That you call anyone who spends their money on a company's product (or service) as entitled.... I sure hope you don't work for KI/CF. $500 isn't a large expense (for passes) for our family- but it is for some. Despite this, though, is does get categorized into our "discretionary spending." A KI Season Pass is a non-essential expense that is not necessary for basic needs. This discourse has gone way off the rails of the original comment by Boddha a while ago of "he wishes he knew"- or something like that. Though we haven't officially purchased our passes yet we probably will. Though if it seems like staff feels that we are entitled... I can spend that elsewhere too. My original comment lamented that in my previous experience with owning season passes there have been times where things were offered or implied that didn't pan out as expected. We've continued to purchase anyway. But, if you want to poke holes in someone's personal/actual experience- go ahead, you seem to like to get the last word in to prove you're right.  I'll make mine easy- i won't reply further.

    He works there.

    He's also being fed some pretty bad lines about season pass holders by someone who wears a different colored name tag than him.

    If you want to enjoy the park because you love the park then you should still go. If you want to go somewhere that you will honestly be valued as a guest then you should get a Dollywood pass. 

    • Like 2
    • Thanks 1
  6. I really like this. I like how Cedar Point has collectible pins, so this could be KI’s version of that. I know they say that limited quantities will be available for sale, but I can imagine if this goes well that they’d just make it a “thing” and I’d be all about that. 

    • Like 2
  7. On 4/5/2024 at 8:49 AM, DispatchMaster said:

    The new sign does not look permanent. The posts are not set in concrete, and instead are just temporarily stuck in holes in the ground and backfilled.

    I would imagine a more permanent sign and/or structure will come at some point, using the existing footers, at which point they'll remove those posts and fill in the holes with the dirt they intentionally left there.

    I was thinking the same: the sign was just there for the photo op. 

    But with that being said, how did no one think, “we should probably do something about the unused footers sticking up in front of the sign.” If you’re going to create a photo op you probably shouldn’t inject eyesores into them. :)

    • Like 1
  8. 14 minutes ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

    And that is exactly why the meal plan was the ONE thing I didnt get, and never have.  Yes, they can (and given the chance, will) screw every other add-on up, but that and the all-season FL are the only two Id be really pi$$ed about.  The FL I find crucial enough to actually enjoying the park that I will "discuss" things with a gold tag each and every visit if I have to, as much as I have to, in order to get things right.  The meal plan I do not, and all it would do is make me angry enough to simply walk.


    Further edited to address BB1s above post.... I dumped my CC membership about 8 years ago for many of the same reasons.... immature garbage, and all I really wanted the memberships to the various clubs I belonged to from 09-16 for, was the ERT.  I had also made the decision mid-season last year that this year would be my last, and that was before I had been made aware of the CF/SIX merger, or the myriad of garbage that CF has pulled with this latest iteration of the "We already have your money" pass.  Now, as you mentioned in your last sentence, Id be adamant about this one being it even if I hadnt already made that decision.

    But remember- they did change the rules on the All Season Fast Line add-on last year. Carowinds (I believe) made you choose between Tricks and Treats or Scarowinds Fast Lane. This was unprecedented in past years and was not in the original terms.

    To Cedar Point’s credit, they are allowing All Season Fast Line purchasers to ride TT2 on an unlimited basis while the daily Fast Lane is a one-time thing… although I’m sure that if they changed the rules so that if the All Season Fastlane people had to deal with a condition that was not disclosed at purchase the same culprits would be defending them. 

    • Like 1
  9. On 4/5/2024 at 12:58 PM, Tr0y said:

    What we are seeing as far as CF goes is nothing necessarily new. For example the first year of the season long dining plan: 


    I don’t know if you were “around” for this, but please jog my memory if you remember.

    In 2014, wasn’t the All Season Meal Plan originally advertised for being through Labor Day, then they back pedaled and made it actually all season? There might have been a few days between the policy changes (which is implied by the post you shared) but I’m pretty sure they changed it that year. 

  10. 16 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

    Having a good debate is healthy. Seeing another's perspective is how we grow and learn. There are extremes both ways. This is no different than sports fans that are passionate about their team. 

    For some KI fans/enthusiasts the park can sell them a $500 pass, walk in with only 2 flat rides open in the park, and given left over McDonald's fries for their meal plan and they will be happy about it. 

    Then there are others that have these unreasonable expectations of the value of their pass. They could have ERT for themselves for 3 hours, get a 3 course meal and a massage before they leave and find something to be upset about. 

    I do not think we are at these extremes in this thread when calling out the "this changed and that changed" after the fact.  Stating that it does not look good on the company as a whole, or the value of the pass has lost some value because what was was sold on date 1 then changed on date 2  like 30 days later is not unreasonable. 

    Family's thinking about buying a pass may see these threads when doing research to decided if a pass at KI is for them. The parks decisions on these subjects have consequences on the bottom line. Just because someone feels they were mislead and and the "subject to change" has been used quite a bit in the last few years does not make them trolls. 

    Someone on one of our social posts for the pod mentioned off-hand that they visited another park first, so they bought their pass there. Then they said they went to other parks in the chain and had problems with the add-ons. Someone replied that it was their own fault for not buying their home park pass.

    You’re going to have a few sycophants and people who are seemingly being fed lines that would make that argument, but that’s not going to fly with the vast, vast majority of guests.

    Park apologists often cite the statistic that a fraction of park guests are enthusiasts. Pretending that this statistic isn’t terribly misleading, assume that 2% of guests are “enthusiasts.” How will the “your own fault” argument fly with the other 98% of park visitors? 


  11. 1 hour ago, DispatchMaster said:

    I'm not sure why this is relevant? That loan amounts to less than 0.2% of CF's annual revenue. It's barely a rounding error. A tiny fraction. And any earned interest is obviously a tiny fraction of that tiny fraction. Free money is always good, but it's relatively trivial. And it's not like that's free money, since pass holders tend to visit quite frequently per dollar spent, which costs the park money in terms of operating cost. So again, I'm not sure why this is at all relevant.

    No, I am not a stakeholder of any sort. I haven't even purchased a season pass in a few years. I just find pass holders, who are not the revenue-generating bread and butter they envisions themselves as, who constantly complain about the value they receive while continuing to hand over their money, exhausting. And beyond that, there is such a thing as constructive criticism, but calling every reduction in value or whatever a "bait and switch" is patently ridiculous.

    Furthermore, even if these were legitimate "bait and switch" actions the parks were doing, it's kind of difficult to take the complaints seriously from people who willingly engage in what appears to be an abusive relationship.

     None is asking YOU to willingly engage with complaints. We expect the person who fed you the line, “as adorable as it is predictable” to engage with complains. But we all know that they won’t bother to do that.

    By the way, as promised, here is the latest Tower Topics discussing the lessons learned from this latest antic: 


  12. 57 minutes ago, DispatchMaster said:

    I'm sorry, who are you referring to with this? And why is a throwaway phrase I used to describe whiny enthusiasts being used as that person's moniker?

    Someone else who works for the park would say that about the guests when issues or complaints would be brought up in meetings. Extremely disrespectful, but expected out of this person. 

    Kind of an “out there” phrase to be repeatedly said by this person and then posted by you. I guess stranger things have happened.

    Perhaps the only other person on Earth who would say that phrase was on a cruise when you quoted them with your post. Ask @gforce1994

    • Like 2
  13. 2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

    I just don't understand how someone would interpret that description to mean anything other than what is says, which is that you're buying a season pass which grants access to the park(s) during their public operating season(s).

    A season pass gets you unlimited access to the park during the public operating season, and in addition to that, upgrading to a Platinum Pass grants additional benefits the pass holder can enjoy during the public operating season. Expecting anything different than what is clearly spelled out in the product description seems foolish, regardless of what the product terms were historically. I can't imagine any first-time pass purchaser reading the purchase description and taking that to mean it also provides access to special or private events. And any long-time passholders would surely be aware of the "unethical bait and switch" tactics the company is so famous for, and would accordingly never make such a silly assumption, right? 


    Yes, because it quite literally says "Kings Island passholders"! Why on Earth would anyone in their right mind think "Kings Island passholders" also includes "Carowinds passholders" or "Toledo Zoo passholders", when it clearly and explicitly states the event is for "Kings Island" passholders? Now, maybe the event will include other CF passholders, but it would be pretty foolish to assume that would be the case based on the description of the event.

    Yes, and that was clearly stated in the CP Blog:

    It states, very clearly, that the event is open to Platinum Passholders, without any further park-specific qualification. But more to the point, there was no indication at the time of purchasing a 2018 pass that the pass would grant access to offseason special events, which, unless I'm missing something, is exactly the case with the TT2 preview.

    I've been buying season passes for a long time prior to the last few years. And I never, not once, assumed the pass I purchased entitled me to anything beyond what was explicitly stated in the purchase terms. Other people obviously feel more entitled, but I don't see why that's the vendor's fault.

    Fair enough. 

    But again, we learned some valuable lessons here. Expect the lessons learned to be articulated on Friday’s Tower Topics. It’ll be interesting to see what Mr. “As adorable as it is predictable” tells you about that. 

  14. 2 hours ago, DispatchMaster said:

    Based on recent practices, I would bet they simply found it easier to just clear cut everything rather than endure the time/cost of having to work around existing trees. It's a disappointing trend.

    I do not disagree. It’s also probably cheaper.

    In an ironic twist, they still make sure to include the anecdote that they made every effort they could to save certain trees while building The Beast. If it were built today, the plot would look like The Voyage. 

    • Like 1
  15. 1 minute ago, DonHelbig said:

    I am getting a Gold Season Pass with all of the add-ons. What I have yet to decide is which Cedar Fair Park will get the transaction and be referred to as my "Home" Park. 

    Given the recent developments in what the “All Park Passport” really means, we have learned some very valuable lessons. Tower Topics may be a good place to share our thoughts on that. 

    • Like 1
  16. 19 hours ago, Shawn Meyer said:

    Anyone know if The Beast has been put back on the track yet? The Kings Island facebook page has been posting other rides but not The Beast. 

    It almost certainly has. In fact, I'd be willing to go as far as saying that there have been several test cycles. It won't be long until the associates are there for training, and the rides need to be ready for that. 

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