Jump to content


  • Posts

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Posts posted by TombRaiderFTW

  1. ^ What he said. If you imagine riders having no loose items and being quick and efficient boarders/disembarkers, there being no seatbelt to check, and every train being 100% full, you could theoretically launch a train roughly every 30-40 seconds (approximately the time between launch and clearing a non-trimming MCBR.) That would put the ride at 1,800-2,400 people per hour, assuming it was running enough trains to always have a train waiting before the station and there was enough operators checking restraints.

    Here in the real world, of course, basically none of those things ever happens, so obviously 2,000+ pph is a pipe dream.

  2. 39 minutes ago, DiamondBeast said:

    Yeah, but it's not the same. You're not in a huge wash tub like car. 

    I doubt a modern Virginia Reel could be made with that kind of car. Laws and guidelines concerning restraint design on new installations have come a long way since Virginia Reels last existed, and from what I've seen of them, they basically had no restraints anyway.

    • Like 1
  3. Of the ones on that list, I'll take the Arrow Suspended, the Intamin Accelerator and Suspended Catapult, and the Schwarzkopf looper.

    It's funny to me that anyone would want the Chance Toboggan back. Those things are torture devices.

    They're not on the list, but I'd add CCI wooden coasters, too. No, S&S and The Gravity Group aren't the same, regardless of staff. I don't mean to be a snob and say that CCI wood coasters and Schwarzkopf looping coasters are where coaster design peaked... but I'd be lying if I said any present-day industry players make rides nowadays that I like quite as much as either of those.

  4. 17 hours ago, CoasterJack said:

    What Flight of Fear really needs is some new trains, those would do wonders to extending the life of that ride. They might be the worst in the park in my opinion

    Premier isn't offering anything better nowadays, IMO. Their Sky Rocket II trains are more comfortable once seated, but getting in or out of them is a nightmare. They're super cramped.

  5. 17 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

    One thing that I find crazy is how Kings Island is not making as big of a deal about the new track on The Racer, the supposed new signature restaurant replacing Skyline on International Street, or even Diamondback’s repaint. I know Adventure Port is opening this year, but these park improvements could probably generate at least some buzz. I remember when Kings Island retracked Blue Racer’s TURNAROUND and the local news was buzzing with stories of a smoother ride experience even though it was a relatively small improvement. It also seems like there more more blog posts about retracting updates in the past. When Kings Dominion announced Grain and Grill was replacing Panda Express, they released concept art. I feel like if the park could generate a lot more buzz about improvements like these if it wanted to. Even though a repainted Diamondback might not make someone jump in their car and immediately head to Kings Island, it will at least put Kings Island in their head, and maybe they will think about visiting. I guess news stories about Kings Island “parting ways with a 27 million dollar attraction” make people think of Kings Island, too.

    You're not wrong, and it's making me wonder if something is going on behind the scenes at KI, CP, CF corporate, or all 3. The late announcement of Adventure Port plus the fact that it's not looking like it'll be ready for opening day makes me think that something shifted at the last moment in 2022 that made AP happen. Racer is getting a significant retrack and not much has been said about it, which is odd for the park. The International Street Skyline and Chick-Fil-A, which have been there for many years, are being replaced with... something, and that has never been truly addressed except passively by updating the food options on the website--Coney Bar-B-Que got more coverage, despite being announced super late, IIRC. It's like every change for 2023 has taken KI by surprise.

    Meanwhile, CP just had an enthusiast event where most of the announcements were, "Remember [thing]? Well, [thing] is going away!"

    If the oddity of 2023 had just been limited to CP, I would sooner guess it's something to do with their new GM... but it's not. I wonder if someone at the top of the chain changed recently.

    • Like 4
  6. 2 minutes ago, DJSkyFoxx said:

    Having like a point system would be great. Something tangible where you can actually see what you are earning towards certain things. For example if you say, "earn 500 points and get a free ice cream or sweet treat" say earn "5000 points and earn a free t-shirt worth x amount of dollars". Something like that. Having either a separate Cedar Fair rewards app or having something built into each park's app with the point system visible would be wonderful.

    If I remember correctly, this was basically how the original version of Fun Perks worked back in 2012... I think. I remember there being some confusion about what your point total was--I wanna say you'd semi-randomly get an extra receipt when making a purchase in-park that would give you a free cotton candy, a discount on Slingshot or Skyflier, etc.

    • Like 1
  7. The part of me that remembers growing up at KI in the 90's and early 2000's loves Backlot as it is, as it's basically the only remaining remnant of that era, for better or worse. The rest of me had a daydream the other day of Backlot being removed and a new Swan Lake being put in its place as part of a reimagining of that area, in preparation for whatever is coming to Vortex's plot of land.

    I like the thought of it getting a full retheme, though. Even post-Mystic, I'm not holding my breath that Cedar Fair would give it the Verbolten-esque theming it would need... but it's a nice thought.

    Genuinely curious: If y'all had to choose between getting a Vortex replacement first or getting a top-to-bottom retheme of Backlot first, which one would you choose?

    • Like 1
  8. 3 hours ago, RedSummit20 said:

    Thats Six Flags, this is Cedar Fair..lol 

    What am I supposed to take away from this? That it's a bad idea because Six Flags did it? Y'all act like Six Flags has not successfully been in business longer than Cedar Fair has existed.

    • Like 1
  9. 17 hours ago, RedSummit20 said:

    Ki will never go solar, lol you know how much they would need to INVEST to power all the lights, then re run the wires, add new lights, as cool as that would be, i HIGHLY doubt it. 

    Six Flags Great Adventure, which is roughly the same size as KI, runs on solar power. If they can do it, I don't see why KI couldn't.

    More: https://www.nj.com/news/2019/06/six-flags-is-now-one-of-worlds-1st-solar-powered-theme-parks-more-clean-energy-is-on-the-way.html

    • Like 2
    • Haha 1
  10. 9 minutes ago, silver2005 said:

    There is footage somewhere that shows full size test cars at the Utah plant going through a corkscrew and it'll give you whiplash watching it fling the swinging cars over the top.

    I don't think I've ever seen a full-size suspended coaster do a corkscrew, but there is a miniature version in this video:


    • Like 1
  11. This is pure speculation: I think the idea that inspired the suspended coaster concept was that, instead of having to bank the track, the train would bank itself. As has been pointed out here many times, both the original Bat and Arrow's suspended coaster prototype had the unbanked track. It was only after 1981 that Arrow started banking its suspended coaster track, presumably due to lessons learned at Kings Island. All that to say, I think the existence of the suspended coaster as a concept is inextricably tied to the build and failure of The Bat. The Bat or a ride like it, warts and all, was always where that concept was going to end up, unless someone at Arrow was going to build and continuously operate a full-sized prototype for years and track how the thing aged (which seems unlikely.)

    Let's pretend for a minute that Arrow designed an unbanked track that could handle what the trains were doing. I wish I could remember who it was, but someone (possibly Jeff Gramke?) said at Coasterstock 2015 that the 6 dampeners that exist at the rear of each suspended coaster car were added on the fly while trying to troubleshoot The Bat. They eventually became standard on Arrow's suspended coaster cars. Those dampeners serve to... well, dampen the swinging of the cars so they go back to their "resting" position under the track more quickly. The more those dampeners have to move, the more quickly they wear out. On the post-1981 suspended coasters with banked track, those dampeners barely move, apart from moments like the swing up into the brakes on the 1993 Bat. On the original Bat, the wild swinging of the cars made them move like crazy. If the track could take the forces, I think the next issue would be parks not wanting to have to replace the dampeners. In other words, I think banking the track was always a likely future for suspended coasters, and the one(s) that had unbanked track probably wouldn't have had as long of a life as the later ones. I don't think The Bat would have been around for, say, 30 years in this scenario.

    Let's pretend that the track and the dampeners both aren't issues, somehow. Arrow's prototype contained a corkscrew. I've never heard officially why that never worked out, but many have speculated that it might be hard to guarantee consistent and safe navigation across all temperatures and weather. (The train takes the corkscrew too slowly because it's cold or windy? The car/cars presumably might fall to one side or another, which might not be comfortable and/or safe for the riders.) Eleven years after The Bat, B&M made their first inverted coaster. It's a similar concept (you hang below the track) but they can do inversions, which is a big selling point. Sure, as coaster people, we know that inverts and suspended coasters are of course very different rides, but that's not a nuance a lot of parkgoers are concerned with. Flashiness is the name of the game and always has been with coasters.

    All that to say: Had the original Bat had a track that worked and the dampeners somehow weren't a deterrent, I think it wouldn't have made a massive change to KI's future or the industry's future. Perhaps Arrow would have sold more suspended coasters elsewhere in the 1980's if their first big showing of the model hadn't flopped. And if we already had a functioning suspended coaster in 1992, perhaps we would have gotten a B&M invert when all the "cool kids" were getting them instead of 20 years after the fact like we did. At most, maybe Arrow would have beaten B&M to the punch on inverts and Banshee would have been an Arrow invert located where the current Bat is. I think suspended coasters are a neat, unique glimpse into a pre-CAD bit of coaster history, and we are unlikely to ever see anything quite like them again--Vekoma has/had their own version, yes, but they're very different layouts compared to Arrow's and haven't been sold in several years. But that's just my opinion!

    • Like 4
  12. 20 hours ago, IBEW_Sparky said:

    Non-PR B.S. answer to the question of what is coming is "Absolutely as little as we can possibly get away with and just barely enough to keep the mice listening to our flutes."

    Boy, have I got news for you about how businesses work.

    19 hours ago, BB1 said:

    However, this is all screaming budget cuts to me. The fact that they are cutting back on basically discretionary expenses really makes me wonder how this season is going to run. Which also begs the question, why is Chick Fil A leaving and Johnny Rockets still there? I don't doubt that the park will have some decent culinary options coming, but this is after Keat's becoming a taco joint, Pink's going the way of the dodo, and now the Juice being demo'd. Everything tied in with the lack of CP Nights which I was planning on attending for the first time this year really just sours the deal.

    I don't know if this was true in every presentation or just in mine, but Tony did admit in ours that part of some of the decisions that were made for 2023 were based in staffing and trying to consistently offer quality in what remains. I don't think that's mutually exclusive with, "We're trying to save money."

    I've had kind of a vibe from Cedar Fair recently (minus Kings Island and Carowinds) that they aren't particularly sure of what they are right now, and WCO 2023 only solidified that feeling for me. Cedar Fair post-Ouimet is giving me Disney post-Walt vibes--they seem to know that what was done 7-11 years ago worked but don't fully understand why, so they keep doing it in hopes that it'll keep working. I think that's why rides keep disappearing at Cedar Point and restaurants pop up in their wake, and why live entertainment hasn't moved past music revues (which has been standard amusement park fare since the 70's) and circus acts (which appeared circa 2012.)

    LARP-style attractions (Ghost Town Alive, Forbidden Frontier) were an interesting step in the right direction with a lot of potential, but CP was always an odd choice to me for one, and they basically hid it from plain sight. You had to look for it, unlike at Knott's, where you'd easily stumble into it (since Ghost Town is effectively their International Street, for the purposes of this conversation.) I'm not shocked it wasn't pulling numbers (Tony's words, not mine) and it's gone. It's a shame that Forbidden Frontier seems to have put a bad taste in CF's mouths about the entire concept.

    Cedar Fair circa 2012-2017 was redefining what the seasonal amusement park experience was, and it seems like we've faltered. Cedar Point's 2023 strategy being "we're adding a wild mouse and removing a bunch of other stuff" makes me feel like no one knows what to do with where things stand.

    Putting Tony Clark in the spotlight to have to break that news in person to a bunch of enthusiasts was an odd move at best, and at least in my presentation, it showed. Tony was very subdued and even the littlest bit sharp with people. It's unsurprising to me that they did a "text your question to this number" system for the Q&A, because that gave him the ability to ignore disgruntled questions.

    • Like 4
  13. 20 hours ago, TOPGUN1993 said:

    What you see in the photo is just the base color on the masks. More to come to make them feel aged and ancient. ;) :rolleyes:

    I'm excited to see more. I appreciate the detail work that has gone into them already, but they did seem a bit "clean" compared to the overall vibe of Adventure Express.

    • Like 5
  14. 18 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

    Diamondback’s repaint looks amazing! I really like the new color scheme. I think Kings Island should pressure wash/clean Diamondback’s splashdown pond if possible. It has been looking a little dirty recently.

    Or even paint it. Not shades of blue like the Royal Fountain, but a deep blue, aqua, or even black would be a nice change from the concrete, whose light gray shows the gunk easily.

    • Like 2
  15. I expect that Fast Lane will be sold at a higher price this year.

    Frankly, this seems like another decision rooted in them selling too many Prestige passes for 2023. That, and selling too many of the all-year Fast Lanes. Gotta cut down on FL demand somehow.

    • Like 1
  16. 10 hours ago, DiamondbackFan said:

    At 1:36 of the below video: "we can go from 0-45 Kph or 0-200 Kph, it's all up to our clients"

    200 Kph = 124.274 Mph

    rcdb.com lists TTD speed at 120 Mph


    Adam Sandy is the guy in the video. Formerly a higher-up for Ride Entertainment, the firm that handles sales for Gerstlauer and SkyCoaster, among others. Now the Sales and Marketing Director for Zamperla.

    As someone whose career is built on keeping promises, I expect that he chose his words very specifically. You don't toss out "200 kph" without being sure that you can do it.

    To be clear, IF I'm on the right track at all, I really, really, really don't think Adam is part of Cedar Point's marketing. In other words, I think this might be an interesting piece of the final picture, but it is NOT a hint. I've been around these parts long enough to know that someone's gonna take an unrelated company's video as a hint from CP's PR department, and so help me, I'm not gonna feed that monster. :P

    For the record, this isn't me pretending to know something when I don't. Because I don't know anything about what CP has planned. I'm just offering what perspective I can.

    • Like 1
  17. 10 hours ago, Snowball said:

    It's a coat rack with some coats and a hat on it, and the arms of the coats pop out and hat pops up revealing the face and arms of a monster, it also has an air cannon in it that goes off when the arms pop out. I'm not sure if it was running in Cornered as it was in pretty rough shape last time I looked at it. May have just been used as decoration.

    Here's the link from the company that makes it: https://www.scarefactory.com/index.php/product/fix705-haunted-coat-rack/

    I know exactly which prop you're talking about--it caught me by surprise in Holiday Horror and is unique enough that I usually end up taking note of it each year.

    I did see it this year in Cornered, and I really want to say that it was operational.

    • Like 1
  18. 2 hours ago, Browntggrr said:


    Lots of demo going on.

    Christmas tree, finish sign, footers on both launch & brake side still there.  Big hole where transfer track was and clearing at end of station is interesting.

    Very, very interesting. I can't think of a reason why the blocks between the final brakes and the station would need to be removed. Or why the supports halfway through the brake run to just after the station would need to be removed.

    The launch track and brakes make sense to remove, if the rumored launch conversion is actually happening (and I speculate that it is, though I question if Zamperla or Intamin is doing the conversion.) It's basically a given that new track would need to be fabricated. I could mayyybe understand needing to replace the supports to make that happen instead of being able to make the track work with the existing supports... maybe. But removing the footers, which is what appears to have happened on the back side of the station? I don't want to stir this into a bigger deal than it actually is, but that makes me think this won't simply be a track replacement.

    Someone speculated elsewhere that TTD will be converted into an Ice Breaker-style multi-launch. That seems a little far-fetched to me, but the footers going away makes guesses like that seem slightly more realistic. If the park is going to THIS much bother, it makes sense that they might choose to "plus" the ride somehow as a part of rebranding it, to help distance it from being That Ride That Hurt Someone. I don't know that I'd necessarily agree that simply painting New TTD as a new ride is the best move, if that's what they choose to do--it lends itself to the GP idea that amusement parks are unsafe and run by schemers who care little about safety and will slap paint and a new name on something that has had an accident just so they can keep taking your money--but I'm not sure what a better move would be. It's a tough position to be in.

    Winter Chill Out is gonna be an interesting one in 2023. Even with the second day being added to it, I expect that it will sell out immediately, and people will be expecting TTD news. And surely Tony Clark knows that.

    • Like 4
    • Haha 1
  • Create New...