mtl2013 Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 so, im sure someone has either already asked this, or i am just terribly behing, but this thought just popped into my head. Is KI still going to have platinum passes even though CF sold the park? If so, what will the platinum passes be for? Sorry if i am aking a dumb question...I just wanted to know. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 4, 2010 Share Posted January 4, 2010 For now, at least, Platinum Passes continue. The park has not been sold. Apollo has bought...nothing from Cedar Fair. A 40 day "go shop" period is underway, while Cedar Fair attempts to get a better deal from someone else. Even if no other suitor shows up, the sale would still require approval of the holders of 2/3 of the units...which may not happen. And there is litigation in Sandusky attempting to prove the Board of Directors in breach of their fiduciary duties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Do you think they will be getting a 100% pay bonus like last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 5, 2010 Share Posted January 5, 2010 Well, I am sure they will at least pause before they vote themselves such a thing...if they do. The fact there are lawsuits pending in Sandusky accusing them, in effect, of, among other things, self-dealing, might give them some concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Mr. Kinzel's Golden Parachute: TWENTY MILLION DOLLARS: ...Last year's proxy statement stated that if Cedar Fair CEO Dick Kinzel lost his job after Cedar Fair was taken over, he'd receive a $20 million golden parachute to cushion his fall from power. The new statement is expected to spell out details of his proposed contract extension under the new ownership.... There is MUCH in this article, which deserves to be read in full...including a timeline for the proposed sale (and the fact the SEC proxy statement is to be published Friday): http://www.sanduskyr...ont/1843773.txt Also, in another article: The proposed sale of Knott's Berry Farm parent Cedar Fair Entertainment could mean the Knott family's last shreds of involvement with the park could be severed. The Knotts sold primary control of Knott's Berry Farm to Cedar Fair in 1997, but kept a portion of Cedar Fair stock. Darrel D. Anderson, a grandson of park founders Walter and Cordelia Knott, sits on the board of the Sandusky, Ohio-based Cedar Fair.... http://www.ocregiste...ott-family.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Deals like that would make you want to lose your job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 One of the comments after the Register story on the compensation the execs would receive talked about an Apollo IPO. Does anyone know any more about that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Think there's now a bit of insentive for Kinzel to step down? I guess it's better then outright firing him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cory Butcher Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 Which is the precise reason I am starting my own Electrical Company this year. I want to be in control of my own destiny, NOT be looking over my shoulder every day in the fear of a layoff because an Armani wearing multi-millionaire is not making enough profit to satsify his or her fancy. Back OT, I truly dont want to sound Heartless, but I will not be able to contain my hysterical laughter when the Knotts family, and any of the other cretins filing suit against GURANTEED money lose every single cent they have invested in CF when it goes Chap 11. These "Cretins" as you are calling them believe that the board of directors do not have their best interests in mind, and are realizing their guaranteed legal right to sue, if nothing else to be sure that their best interests (the maximizing of shareholder value) are met. Many of these people who you belligerently claim are cretins bought the stock at a higher value, a value in many cases three times as high as the current market price. They have every right to exercise legal intervention in this matter. Many of the people who own Cedar Fair units, were holding onto them as a Fixed Income investment and relying on the dividends to secure a healthy retirement, pay for grocery bills, save for vacations, or even to set up college funds. With the ending of the dividend these people have every right to at least sell these shares at what would be a fair market value to purchase some other Fixed Income securities. When you invest you do risk losing what you have put into an investment. These people know that, however they do have every right to proceed how they see fit as investors. They are just making sure there is no agency problem, and have every right to do so. In addition many analysts would contend that the stock at 11.50 is undervalued (long-term) for a profitable but debt-laden company. To the best of these investors' collective knowledge, unpayable debt payments may be looming or they may not. They certainly have every reason to find out and exercise their rights as investors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 And today FUN closed for MORE than the proposed $11.50 per unit offered by Apollo. What this means and why I shall leave for others to speculate...for now. And as for Jackson, Mr. Kinzel only gets the $20 million mentioned if there is a change of control and leaving is not his idea. The lesser amounts he would receive under such circumstance if he retires, is fired for cause or leaves due to disability are listed in the article cited... ... If there is a "change of control," such as a takeover of the company, and Kinzel lost his job as a result, he would receive about $20.1 million in cash and benefits.By comparison, Kinzel would get about $14 million for disability or if he was fired, $6 million if he retired or $3 million if he was fired for cause.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
standbyme Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 "...or $3 million if he was fired for cause." Educate me Interpreter...could he be fired because the stock has devalued so badly...wouldn't it be easy for them to say that there had to have been some bad decisions made for that to have happened? Just wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 If Mr. Kinzel were fired for by the new owners (whoever they may be...IF there are any), whether or not his termination was for cause or not could easily become a subject of litigation. I'd imagine that the parties would come to a settlement and a waiver of future rights as part of any parting of the ways... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 ^^^So either way, he makes it off fairly well (just maybe not for someone used to living the way he does)... As to the stock closing, that is both good and bad. Bad (for Cedar Fair) because now people can argue the they should recieve more than $11.50 per unit, but good because that shows their might be a slim amount of hope for the company (but wouldn't it probably just be due to the impending sale). Also, couldn't many unit holders just sell of now while the price is higher than what they might get? Edit: Also, won't the people that have filed suite against Cedar Fair likely spend more money in court than they could possibly gain if they recieve more money per unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 The company has, for a very long time, tried to convince its holders that long term prospects are bright, that the debt is manageable and that the management is superb and the best available. Trying to convince unit holders now that they should sell out to another company for LESS than they could get by selling today at no risk of future losses in their units is not going to be easy, if it is possible at all. I'd suggest you focus on your inquiry on a far more fascinating question. The go shop period is underway, during which the company can sell to someone other Apollo if they can get a better offer. Why, I must ask, are the units suddenly selling for more than the offer on the table? Why, indeed? As for your last question, the plaintiffs (and their attorneys) are depending on the legal fees ending up being paid by the losing party, which they hope is Cedar Fair and its Board of Directors. The closing price today for FUN units does tend to indicate the offer being made by Apollo is not the best attainable.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted January 6, 2010 Share Posted January 6, 2010 The chart on FUN is looking interesting. It will be something to watch and see how it plays out in coming days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 The closing price today for FUN units does tend to indicate the offer being made by Apollo is not the best attainable.... That's all we need. Another offer coming into play. Let's look at the bright side: Maybe they're looking into a company that has experience in owning and operating amusement parks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Examples of companies like that and that would be in good enough shape to buy a new chain of parks include...(please finish the sentence) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Blackstone, Disney (though doubtful they'd be interested), HERCO, and a new company formed for that purpose composed of former park execs who had run one or more of the Cedar Fair parks in years past...just to name four... (the latter is NOT that much of a stretch..same way KECO was formed to buy the parks from Taft...) Oh, who is HERCO? The company that runs Hersheypark...a trust, more accurately... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I had thought of Blackstone, but they already had a huge purchase, so I didn't think they would be in the shape to do it. And Disney, it just didn't seem like the company that would want to buy other chains like Cedar Fair. I figured there were other companies who own other parks, but I figured the owners of toher parks would be smaller companies ot groups and would have the financial abilities to buy Cedar Fair. That would be interesting to see s group of former execs buy Cedar Fair, though. They should have good experience for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Blackstone not being able to finance/swing the purchase? Are you joking? Blackstone could finance 10 Cedar Fair sized purchases in any given week...though there is the question as to whether the Department of Justice would then be interested in the level of concentration in the theme\amusement park industry. The DOJ is currently looking into the proposed Comcast/NBC Universal deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I figured it would only be a matter of time before we played "Spin the Wheel of Ownership" again, howerver I had no idea it could be this soon. And now the possibilities are endless with new owners, which half excites me, half scares me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 I was not joking... And wouldn't the FTC be looking into deals between businesses like Comcast/NBC? Wouldn't they be looking into violations of anti-trust laws, which would be dealt with by the FTC? (trying to put some of my American history class to use). Also, I looked up Blackstone on Wikipedia (I know, not always reliable). It says they have about $4.226 billion in equity and $13.174 billion of assets. Is assests the businesses and companies they own (things they could sell) and then equity is the cash they have? *the values are supposed to be last accurate in 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 The DOJ and FTC are both involved in antitrust enforcement. And private equity firms use the assets of the companies they buy to finance their acquisitions (also known as leveraged buy-outs...). Equity for these companies is in effect the amount of money available that is not pledged towards debt...as you can see, most of the property they own is collateral for the debt taken on to finance the acquistions. Cedar Fair did much the same thing when it bought Paramount Parks...doing so with largely borrowed money, betting that they would make enough to pay off the interest and the debt when it was due, and making certain covenants to the lenders as to their performance. In order to borrow that much money, all the Cedar Fair property was reportedly pledged as collateral. If the covenants are not kept, the lenders can (and probably would) call the entire debt at any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Of course, the DOJ & FTC's concern with the Comcast/NBC Universal deal is related to the control of media networks and delivery. The idea of a single entity controlling/owning/distributing information tends to make people a little nervous. Let's face it NBC/Universal's theme park holdings are pretty much a non-issue when talking about the government's potential concerns about the Comcast deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 True that, and partly also the case because Comcast will not own the entire interest in the theme parks (if it even keeps them). It will have a partner, it appears, at Universal Orlando...who? Blackstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 ^^^So, leveraged buyouts can be good (gives extra 'money' or value to be used to put up to help buy something)m and they can be bad (if you don't make enough money to pay back debt, then you lose assets). ^Sounds like Blackstone was busy last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Blackstone is widely assumed to have been one of the bidders for Paramount Parks. If they were, they did not see fit to outbid the amount paid by Cedar Fair... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 ^Maybe for good reason. Also, has Blackstone owns amusement parks in the past, or are the Busche parks its first amusement parks? And, I just read Blackstone co-invested in Harrah's with Apollo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Uh, as I just noted Blackstone owns an undivided interest (half) in Universal Orlando. It has for quite some time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted January 7, 2010 Share Posted January 7, 2010 Oh. The way I had understood it is Blackstone had recently purchased an interest in Universal Orlando because you said: "...It will have a partner, it appears, at Universal Orlando...who? Blackstone." I thought that meant if a deal with Blackstone was approved, and the Comcast deal is approved. Gotcha now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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