The Interpreter Posted May 24, 2015 Share Posted May 24, 2015 Kings Island's attendance in the early 90's was in the multi-million category...I believe it was well over 2,000,000 and closer to 3,000,000. To give Ed Hart great credit, when he owned Kentucky Kingdom the first go-round, he tried to target a different audience than the competition--be it Holiday World, a much smaller park back then, or Kings Island. He positioned Kentucky Kingdom as The Thrill Park, a positioning that worked very well in that time and given the competition. This time around, he says they are aiming at families. Yet, a Drop Tower (again!?). T3? Last year, before the park opened, projections for attendance he helped whisper around the industry (probably to help a sale in the then near 2015 or 2016) were a million guests for 2014 with more in the outyears. They got...less than 600,000. And now, two days for less than 30 dollar deals for out of state residents, subject to certain conditions. It may well be the 2 more admissions is even more critical than the two more being out of state. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieF Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Kentucky Kingdom has done ~50,000 in attendance over nine days. Worse, they claim it took them seven weekends to do so. A local high school fair is said to do 100-125k+ in attendance over four days. Hmm... The only thing I would comment on that would be how much the high school fair cost to get in and how much was food and stuff like that, they probably had way more attendance because it certainly did not cost as much as say KK to get in. Now 50,000 has me a bit worried about KK, I hope it just survives. The only thing that really boils my blood is when other members here compare KK to a way bigger park(like KI or CP) and say that KK needs to be like this or do things like they do. KK is not even close to being in the league of those parks and they are in different parts of their lifespan anyway, KK was built in 1989, so it is around 26 years old, when was KI just 26 years old, when they were just starting out with Paramount in 1994. You can't just compare KK to a park that gets 2.5 million more than it. However I am not saying that I am defending the park, the parks policies make me a little sick inside, with refusing ADA standards at Swampwater Jacks or not inspecting their coasters and rides daily and many more policies that are issues. I really want KK to succeed, but I do not know if it will. I think it could become actual competition if they were smart. They may not be as large, and they could even keep the same amount of rides as they have now. But they do not market well to the state. Like I said earlier, I'm outside of Lexington and I rarely hear or see any promotions for the park. They could easily put themselves on the map if they marketed better and were consistent in information. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Still amazed how this park received taxpayer funding with little to no commotion from the people of the Commonwealth. Politics at its finest. Just looking for some clarification and I may have missed something, but is the park actually being directly funded in any amount by the Commonwealth of Kentucky? I followed this thread a lot more closely during the Bluegrass Boardwalk breakdown and the initial return of Hart, but from what I've seen (and the quick searching I've done tonight) it seems that the park was offered incentives/tax breaks not necessarily a direct subsidy. I did find one article making mention that the city of Louisville itself had put forward around $200,000, but not a mention of the state directing cash into the park. Again, maybe I missed something? If that's the case - that's probably why you haven't seen more of a "commotion." KK always has and will continue to fall into a political arena given who owns the land and its relationship with the State Fair. Nevertheless, if "tax breaks" at the state level are the only thing on the back of Kentucky taxpayers, that's a hell of a lot better than a direct subsidy and not much different than the tax breaks the state gives to film studios and other corporations to attract business (see: Toyota and the battle with Texas as well as when Kentucky squared off with Cincinnati for who could offer Omnicare the best tax breaks). I also believe the state offered similar tax breaks to the Creation Museum's latest amusement park endeavor. Not saying it's right, but just pointing out it's not as if the government is directly funding this operation. If I've missed something though, please point me in the right direction! Signed, A taxpayer in the Commonwealth of Kentucky (a state where you never see much of a tax return and pay quite a bit for a license plate sticker, but hey: the cigarettes are cheaper here than across the river). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 The state land is collateral for Hart & Co.'s loan from The Bank of Kentucky. Also, rides and fixtures owned by the state are also collateral. If the park fails, to the extent that loan is not otherwise paid, the taxpayers lose state assets. In addition, the property is clearly leased to a private operator for less than its fair market value at its highest and best use. This is in essence a direct subsidy. If I let you use a new Cadillac for $200 a year, the IRS would say, depending on our relationship, you either got a gift or income. Foregone income can be a business choice--are the people of the state better served by Kentucky Kingdom than what the private sector would put there absent government subsidy? But, should a Democratic governor and his pals make that decision without legislative or the people's input? If we get to November without this becoming a political issue, I will be stunned. Especially if the 2015 Kentucky State Fair is not a raging success. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBEASTunchained Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 So......Quick question.....A bit off topic from the discussions above....BUT.... Have any of you KICentral members tried out any Kumbak SLC trains before? I was curious and thought maybe I could get a preview opinion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnaalexis Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Unfortunately I haven't I think the only ones in America are at Kennywood, on Phantoms Revenge. Haven't made it to Kennywood yet but it's on my Theme Park bucket list lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Uh, no. Kennywood had Kumbak redo the controls. Morgan modified the trains. Given Sea Viper in Australia had perhaps the most prominent version of the SLC trains from Kumbak, one must wonder. It closed. Permanently. Last summer. Wonder where the trains... 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnaalexis Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Ah! Alrighty lol I knew they had a hand it somewhere just didn't know where lol sorry for the flub lol Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thekidd33 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Perhaps or perhaps not relevant, Kumbak also designed an evacuation system for Morey's Piers SLC. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Will T3 maintain 1 train operations or does it have 2 trains? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TombRaiderFTW Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Uh, no. Kennywood had Kumbak redo the controls. Morgan modified the trains. Given Sea Viper in Australia had perhaps the most prominent version of the SLC trains from Kumbak, one must wonder. It closed. Permanently. Last summer. Wonder where the trains... Sea Viper was an Arrow looping coaster, though, and not an SLC...? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Indeed. So much for that theory! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 When it was T2 there were 2 trains 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silver2005 Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 ^But I thought they only used one and used the other as a parts donor? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 It opened with two trains. By the time it closed, it had been down to one for quite some time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I made my trek to KK yesterday. It was a very short one, a friend wanted to go and let's just say there were many delays, like the loss of the Kroger voucher. My impressions: 1. Very nice grounds. My former career was in the landscape industry, so I pay close attention. There were a few areas that need attention, lke bedding areas with prickly lettuce and nutsedge weeds. However, the labeling of plant specimens was really a nice bonus. And the landscaping--can't believe it looks so great after the park was left to decay for several years. 2. Very nice staff. As mentioned, my friend left her Kroger voucher at home, about 2.5 hours away. Her daughter took a picture and sent it, and the staff were able to scan it with no problems. And they had no hassles with that. 3. Thunder Run. Oh.My.Gosh. Smoothest wooden coaster I have ever experienced. 4. Lines moved well, even though only one train were on the coasters. 5. "Security" present everywhere, unlike the gangland of SFKK 6. Good food prices, but only had soft drinks because of arrival time 7. Rides seemed well maintained, in spit of weekly checks 8. Some attention to detail with paint, landscaping andsignage could enhance the experience. In fairness, KI could do the same with paint on The Racer, Eiffel Tower, etc. 9. The carousel needs a deep scrubbing. Looks like the years of closure did a number with mildew. But it ran well. 10. The park has a confusing layout; but maybe that is because I'm not familiar with it.new 11. The new flats look fun and are an appropriate scale for the park. 12. Why load a Ferris Wheel with only 4 tubs? 13. They close the lines before the park closes, so I was not able to ride Lightning Run. This is unfortnate, especially since they close early in the day. It was a crowded day, but everything was managed well it seemed. As a taxpayer, I hope for crowded days so that the park will operate and pay the loans and not have to end in disaster, as Terp has explained the collateral issue. Also, with people in the park and spending money, it creates sales tax and income tax from employees. So hopefully the cycle continues and revenues will support further debt repayment and investment into the park. 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I don't know if something has changed regarding inspections or if this was in addition to the daily ones. Both maintenance personnel and ride operators must go through an opening checklists before allowing guest on the ride each day. Maintenance did in fact, at least last year, walk the tracks and do checks every day before opening. Maybe the weekly checks is something in addition to those checks. At least I hope. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 Or maybe Ed Hart just didn't know what he was talking about. Which, if true, is profoundly disturbing. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhyano Posted May 25, 2015 Share Posted May 25, 2015 I'll have to go to the park on the way to Holiday World this year! 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrick Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Did Six Flags take T2's train, or was it simply in an unusable state after the years of sitting in the elements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Probably didn't deliver the image the park was going for as family friendly. At least if it's a looper they can try to make it slightly more enticing than being in a minor car accident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoF96" Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Something else to note about the inspections. Somewhere near the control panel there should be a bright green "Ready to Operate" tag that is signed and dated by maintenance and the operator. There is a clear paper holder hanging and these tags should be visible if you know what they are. Those should prove whether or not that ride has recieved proper inspections for the day 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBEASTunchained Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I'm strongly considering heading out to the Kingdom late next week, but that's only if I hear that T3 is operating by then...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I hope everyone goes to opening weekend at Kentucky Kingdom so I can have King's Island to myself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsus Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Some were led to believe that they already did, or did attempt to, attend Kentucky Kingdom's 2015 opening day. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Some were led to believe that they already did, or did attempt to, attend Kentucky Kingdom's 2015 opening day. Generally I count the opening day when all of the rides are open. And tested. EDIT: Their website sucks. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtk1378 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I kinda want to check Kentucky Kingdom out just based on this thread alone lol. I wouldn't do it for anything over $20 though, so doubt that's happening. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I kinda want to check Kentucky Kingdom out just based on this thread alone lol. I wouldn't do it for anything over $20 though, so doubt that's happening. Well, if you're not from Kentucky, I'm sure there's a deal for you. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtk1378 Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Nope, I'm from the good ole bluegrass state, and even worse, the Northern Kentucky variety, so not even close to their target demo. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KatieF Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Nope, I'm from the good ole bluegrass state, and even worse, the Northern Kentucky variety, so not even close to their target demo. Oh no. Full price for you then! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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