New attraction at Knott's Berry Farm?

[medford]

An article was posted on here somewhere recently, from the begining of the operating season (or perhaps a shade earlier than when KI opened up) that stated about Cedar Fair's goals, financial projections, etc... One of the pieces was how they planned to spend x% of projected revenue's each year to upgrade/refurbish their parks. Whatever the % was, it worked out to roughly 90 millon this year, so the person above who posted $85-$90 mil in total development was pretty much in the ballpark. what that means for KI (or Knott's Berry Farm) I don't know in relation to 2013, but it would seem fitting w/ so much put into CGA and the Pointe this season, a new big budget coaster for both Knott's and KI would be in the works for 2014.

[DBInternational]

I would definitely be okay with something big coming to the park id much rather see a new section of the park rather than just a new ride

[CoastersRZ]

Why do you want a new section of the park? X-Base, back by where Flight of Fear is could use some sprucing up and a flat ride or two and a set of restrooms. Have you ever hiked to the nearest restroom to Flight of Fear/Firehawk? Its quite the hike.

[Creed Bratton]

Why do you want a new section of the park? X-Base, back by where Flight of Fear is could use some sprucing up and a flat ride or two and a set of restrooms. Have you ever hiked to the nearest restroom to Flight of Fear/Firehawk? Its quite the hike.

While it's not real close, the one next to WindSeeker and Dino's Alive is the closets. Still a walk. I second this motion ^.

[westcoaster]

Would they add to X base for finishing that section first?

To me KI is now one big park and quickly not slowly becoming a non themed park:

[SonofBaconator]

^Paramount did more theming than Cedar Fair did.

[Creed Bratton]

Would they add to X base for finishing that section first?

To me KI is now one big park and quickly not slowly becoming a non themed park:

I hope they do finish X Base sometime. I had hoped, the area that Dino's Alive (whether it's good or bad doesn't matter for this comment) covers would have been part of the addition. I really would love to see each "section" of the park be returned to it's original idea of "theme".

[malem]

^^ Back to the subject of Knott's, Cedar Fair is currently investing a lot into restoring and upgrading the theming of their log flume, including new animatronics. The sort of project both Paramount Parks and previous management at Cedar Fair would avoid.

http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-knotts-berry-farm-log-ride-overhaul-20130103,0,2787923.story

An article was posted on here somewhere recently, from the begining of the operating season (or perhaps a shade earlier than when KI opened up) that stated about Cedar Fair's goals, financial projections, etc... One of the pieces was how they planned to spend x% of projected revenue's each year to upgrade/refurbish their parks. Whatever the % was, it worked out to roughly 90 millon this year, so the person above who posted $85-$90 mil in total development was pretty much in the ballpark. what that means for KI (or Knott's Berry Farm) I don't know in relation to 2013, but it would seem fitting w/ so much put into CGA and the Pointe this season, a new big budget coaster for both Knott's and KI would be in the works for 2014.

You're probably referring to one of Cedar Fair's earnings announcements, perhaps 2012Q3: http://seekingalpha....ipt?part=single

The number identified for capital expenditures was 9% of gross revenue, and the parks identified as a primary focus of ongoing capital investment were the 4 most-attended parks: KI, CP, Canada's Wonderland, and Knott's.

[TheCrypt]

^The log flume upgrade at Knott's has me wondering if we will see something similar happen at one of the other seasonal parks. Boocifer's castle in Mason, OH needs a massive overhaul.

[TTD-120-420]

Which is sad since it is relatively new.

[CoastersRZ]

I wouldn`t say that Boocifer`s castle needs a major update. I still sorely miss Phantom Theater. It was a really unique attraction, and the Sally Dark Rides installation can be found at so many parks now, that it isn`t unique. (And it can be frustrating when those darn guns can`t seem to hit the targets no matter how hard you try).

Hopefully this renewed focus carries over to the seasonal parks as others have mentioned. Keep in mind that Knott`s is just down the road from Disneyland, so the typical Knott`s customer is accustomed to seeing Disney caliber theming, while the average Kings Island customer is not. Not to mention that Kings Island is only open seven months out of the year, there is less time to generate revenue when compared to Knott`s.

[westcoaster]

Correct about 7 mths compared to everyday ki vs knotts but it would not be to awful much to add a couple nice one of a kind non coaster family attractions, is it kennywood with 3 dark rides for a seasonal park?

[malem]

^^ KI is a very mature park with a well-tapped market. Capital investment here will likely serve to incrementally increase attendance and revenue, while decreasing expenditures. Knott's and Canada's Wonderland, on the other hand, have been identified as having significant growth potential.

New management is all about spending capital in ways that will yield the maximum ongoing return. Whether a specific type of investment (say, a highly themed dark ride at Kings Island) would maximize returns (dollars at the gate, people out of lines spending money, retirement of something more costly to operate) is a question that none of us can answer. Regardless, I would expect more attractions with a broad appeal, as the chain works to incrementally increase attendance in mature markets.

As for the Knott's log flume, here's a rather interesting article for those interested in that ride's history: http://entertainmentdesigner.com/news/theme-park-design-news/the-timber-mountain-log-ride-gets-a-facelift/

Notice that it's reported as the most "popular" ride in the park, which Boo Blasters is very far from being. Especially with its halved capacity. I wouldn't expect that a major investment there would have a significant return, and that has nothing to do with management's position toward theming (or lack thereof).

[TheCrypt]

(And it can be frustrating when those darn guns can`t seem to hit the targets no matter how hard you try).

You just listed one of the major reasons the ride needs a major upgrade; the guns. It seems half of the guns don't even work, and the ones that do typically have bad accuracy. An upgrade in guns would be major in and of itself.

Notice that it's reported as the most "popular" ride in the park, which Boo Blasters is very far from being. Especially with its halved capacity. I wouldn't expect that a major investment there would have a significant return, and that has nothing to do with management's position toward theming (or lack thereof).

Could it be the only working thematic elements in Boo Blasters are black lights and painted cardboard? A larger and/or more mature audience might be drawn if the ride's thematic elements weren't so "cheap" looking and volatile in operation. As is, the ride isn't "worth it." If it were to get an update, even just a few more 3-dimensional objects and a couple new guns here and there, the whole experience would be so much better, at least for me.

[malem]

Could it be the only working thematic elements in Boo Blasters are black lights and painted cardboard? A larger and/or more mature audience might be drawn if the ride's thematic elements weren't so "cheap" looking and volatile in operation. As is, the ride isn't "worth it." If it were to get an update, even just a few more 3-dimensional objects and a couple new guns here and there, the whole experience would be so much better, at least for me.

Considering that the main focus of the ride is shooting targets, its target audience (in Planet Snoopy) might not care how "cheap" the theming looks. The less-realistic elements could even be an asset, as they're potentially less scary than animatronics.

That line gets excessively long as is, so I'm not sure they would want to attract a larger, more mature audience there even if the additional investment were cheap. The capacity doesn't exist.

I've never been a fan of guns in dark rides, particularly where classic dark rides once existed, but plenty of people like the "interactivity".

[Maverick00]

Those types of rides are very popular. Look at Buzz Lightyear and Toy Story Mania at Disney, especially TSM. I think that if either Cedar Point or Kings Island gets a dark ride, that would be the best choice.

[westcoaster]

It would be neat to see a dark ride/ coaster/ combo type of ride:

[TTD-120-420]

Those types of rides are very popular. Look at Buzz Lightyear and Toy Story Mania at Disney, especially TSM. I think that if either Cedar Point or Kings Island gets a dark ride, that would be the best choice.

Cedar Fair cannot afford a Toy Story Mania type ride. If I remember correctly, that ride was well over 100 million dollars to develop.

Busch Gardens Williamsburg has Curse of the DarKastle, which was made by Intamin. It is a brilliant dark ride, that was closer to what Cedar Fair would be willing to spend.

[The Interpreter]

Busch spent far more on that ride than Cedar Fair's recent dark ride history indicates they'd entertain. For instance, what has Cedar Fair spent in recent years on Cedar Point dark rides?

Perhaps new management will change that...

[TTD-120-420]

I said that thinking they would be willing to spend as much on a dark ride as they do with their coaster addition. You are right, they have yet to spend a significant amount of money on a dark ride. New management brings the biggest chance of different thinking.

[CoastersRZ]

^^ KI is a very mature park with a well-tapped market. Capital investment here will likely serve to incrementally increase attendance and revenue, while decreasing expenditures. Knott's and Canada's Wonderland, on the other hand, have been identified as having significant growth potential.

Where did you read this? Cedar Fair has said that Knott`s, Canada`s Wonderland and Cedar Point have been their four top parks. But to say that Knott`s has significant growth potential and Kings Island doesn`t is not a very valid statement. Kings Island has some land to work with, while Knott`s is in a relatively competitive California market. Especially with Disneyland just down the street. Yes, the parks are relatively mature now compared to what they were in the early days and a new coaster install likely won`t see the same spike in attendance now that it did back in the 80`s, but Cedar Fair will continue to invest in all of their parks.

[The Interpreter]

The company has in the recent past acknowledged strong growth potential at Carowinds.

[CoastersRZ]

Isn`t the entire Charlotte area growing right now? I believe that Chiquita just moved its corporate head quarters there from Cincinnati, in part because they got a better tax package there.

[The Interpreter]

Yes, and Charlotte also has some incredible traffic problems...

[malem]

^^ KI is a very mature park with a well-tapped market. Capital investment here will likely serve to incrementally increase attendance and revenue, while decreasing expenditures. Knott's and Canada's Wonderland, on the other hand, have been identified as having significant growth potential.

Where did you read this? Cedar Fair has said that Knott`s, Canada`s Wonderland and Cedar Point have been their four top parks. But to say that Knott`s has significant growth potential and Kings Island doesn`t is not a very valid statement. Kings Island has some land to work with, while Knott`s is in a relatively competitive California market. Especially with Disneyland just down the street. Yes, the parks are relatively mature now compared to what they were in the early days and a new coaster install likely won`t see the same spike in attendance now that it did back in the 80`s, but Cedar Fair will continue to invest in all of their parks.

Sorry, I didn't word that very well.

I was referring to potential for attendance growth. I recall reading that in one of the early interviews with Matt Ouimet after he joined the company, identifying Knott's and Canada's Wonderland. Of course, I can't find it now, so I could be mistaken. (The year-round calendar in California and the huge population of the Toronto metro area providing the opportunities, respectively.)

I didn't mean to imply that new attractions would make more sense at Knott's than at KI. All regional parks certainly need to keep themselves fresh to drive repeat business. New attractions also have lower operating costs, and higher capacity attractions keep guests out of queues and spending money. They drive attendance growth as well, particularly so in less-than-saturated markets.

[Maverick00]

For instance, what has Cedar Fair spent in recent years on Cedar Point dark rides?

Perhaps new management will change that...

True but I see many years of family rides coming to Cedar Point. I think a dark ride is very high on that list too.

The company has in the recent past acknowledged strong growth potential at Carowinds.

That is very true. I visited the park in 2010, before they purchased that extra land though. If you look at Carowindz on Google Earth, there is plenty of land to expand upon. It takes like 10 minutes just to drive to the entrance gates. (Maybe exaggerated a tad bit). I hope they do something about the water park, the entrance is located at the back of the park and is pretty much a cut out in a chain link fence.

[Tanna]

I love dark rides. Lesourdesville had two, but KI only has Boo Blasters. It would be great to have different themes.