Fury 325 Support Failure

[Buckeye Brad]

I saw a news interview with Mr. Wagner where he said the the first employee he told (nearest) was an “elderly gentleman “ parking lot attendant  They were presumably within line of sight of the crack, and this employee told Mr. Wagner that he could not see it. Seems unreasonable after watching the zoomed in video a dozen times, but it might be quite reasonable depending on this employee’s eyesight, cleanliness of his glasses, lighting at that moment, etc.

Mr. Wagner then proceeded to guest relations, where the 4th employee he talked to (unclear what transpired with the previous ones) asked him to airdrop the video and then walked away to tell someone. Which does indeed sound quite reasonable. 
 

On one hand, I can see how the park employees would respond skeptically at first, as a cracked support is very unlikely .

On the other, Mr. Wagner’s daughter could have been riding Fury at that moment (she stayed the park), so any reaction short of a  immediate E-Stop would seem unacceptable. 

 

 

 

[beastfan11]

[Tr0y]

After reading the statement from the park and if you’re able to read between the lines it pretty much admits with out full blown coming out that their maintenance team missed this crack on the daily inspections. The picture that is a week old you can see faint line following up the darker one that is in the same shape as we see when the support is completely broke. Thankfully B&M had factors of safety in the design that saved people on this ride from serious harm or likely death. 

[IndyGuy4KI]

This got me thinking. How many bridges do we drive over every day that are not inspected regularly enough and would be deemed unsafe or condemned if they were? 

We probably don't want to know the answer to that question.

[disco2000]

2 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said:

This got me thinking. How many bridges do we drive over every day that are not inspected regularly enough and would be deemed unsafe or condemned if they were? 

We probably don't want to know the answer to that question.

Yeah, you don't want to know that over 46,000 bridges are deemed poor and structurally deficient....

[WoodVengeance]

That's the main reason why I avoid driving on a "certain bridge" that connects Kentucky and Ohio. A certain bridge that rhymes with the phrase "rent expense"...

[Tyler2012]

6 hours ago, Coastercrush said:

What about the transparency of why the ride was running for at least a week with the crack already forming?  What about the gentleman that brought to their attention?  He said the park has never reached out to him lmao.

Why would the park reach out to him? 

[DoomPlague]

The park should be grateful that someone caught something that they didn't but the way the guy went to the media and added to the sensationalism would make me not want to deal with him. He acted like Guest Services should be running around in a panic and that the train was about to fly off the track and kill everyone.

I doubt any parks plan for when a guest reports something like this.

 

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

[DJSkyFoxx]

9 hours ago, DoomPlague said:

The park should be grateful that someone caught something that they didn't but the way the guy went to the media and added to the sensationalism would make me not want to deal with him. He acted like Guest Services should be running around in a panic and that the train was about to fly off the track and kill everyone.

I doubt any parks plan for when a guest reports something like this.

 

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

I realize that people hate seeing dangerous situations not being responded to in the manner in which they feel they should be. But a mass panic attack isn't going to help anyone. Getting the ride shut down was the obvious right answer, but I really hate seeing the over-blown media coverage make something of this manner out to be some lethal death trap experience. And then the general public makes up a bunch of garbage that never happened and next thing you know everyone is talking about how "somebody died". I know darn well anyone here in the enthusiast community always feels like they're correcting misinformation from those speaking about incidents that never happened while waiting in line with others 

[jsus]

10 hours ago, DoomPlague said:

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

Of course.  There are systems in place to monitor bridges that involve sensors on the structure to detect movement and provide an alarm to the relevant road commission/DOT/etc should a certain threshold be exceeded.  Not sure how widespread it is on bridges and haven't yet heard of that tech being utilized on roller coasters.

Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structural_health_monitoring

Some sample vendors:

https://www.campbellsci.com/bridge-monitoring

https://www.mistrasgroup.com/how-we-help/monitoring/bridges/

https://leica-geosystems.com/en-us/industries/monitoring-solutions/bridge-monitoring

https://www.geokon.com/Bridges

[Buckeye Brad]

14 hours ago, DoomPlague said:

Side note: drone inspections is a good idea but I also wonder if its possible to put sensors the detect movement of the structure over a certain threshold.

Another interesting method is using air pressure.  

I saw a video years ago about the "Skyscraper" ride (usually in tourist areas like Dells, Pigeon Forge, Branson).  The main element of the ride a rotating long, slender steel beam with seats at each end.  Obviously any crack in the beam could be catastrophic.  The video highlighted how they pressurized the steel tubes with air, and the ride system electronically monitored that pressure to detect even the smallest leak instantly. Not practical on large coasters unfortunately, but I thought it was a clever approach. 

[disco2000]

Amazing how supports can just disappear under certain light conditions when digitally zoomed in LOL

 

 

[FUN&ONLY!]

So who is manufacturing Fury 325’s new support if Clermont Steel Fabricators is allegedly not involved in the repair?

[jsus]

1 hour ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

So who is manufacturing Fury 325’s new support if Clermont Steel Fabricators is allegedly not involved in the repair?

Either the quote was in error or was from before B&M reached out to them to procure the replacement support, one would think.  CSF is where B&M sources all their track from globally still, isn't it? It was probably just the media hounding CSF before B&M reached out to them, as B&M had to perform their inspection first and determine what needed fixing/replacing.

[Kenban]

2 hours ago, FUN&ONLY! said:

So who is manufacturing Fury 325’s new support if Clermont Steel Fabricators is allegedly not involved in the repair?

The statement from Clermont was published Wednesday but I suspect it was made on Tuesday.  An employee from B&M did not arrive on site to inspect the damage in person until Wednesday.  The announcement that a replacement support would be manufactured was made on Thursday.

Likely the support was ordered either late Wednesday or on Thursday before the park announcement.  Which would have been after Clermont stated they were not involved.  It was likely true that at the time they were not involved but I suspect they are now.

[disco2000]

Here is a close-up of the weld (just not of Fury) 

[jsus]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna93187

Quote

“It looks like maybe six to 10 days prior, some pictures had been taken that shows the beginning of the crack, and then by obviously last Friday, the thing was completely severed,” Labor Commissioner Josh Dobson said Friday in an interview with The Associated Press.

That’s hardly the thorough scientific inspection and analysis we were hoping for from the state.  He’s probably just referring to the same inconclusive pictures we’ve already seen.  This article doesn’t tell us anything new, really. 

[DeltaFlyer]

On 7/2/2023 at 1:57 PM, Orion742 said:

Do you know specifically where they added them?

On Diamondback, there is an additional footing at the base of the first drop connecting two existing footings, and an additional one added near the bottom of the second drop. 

Orion: there is one footing that has been enlarged at the helix, appears to be #C102L (or in that area… hard to see) Another at the lowest point before the helix has been extended outward toward Racer, looks like #C85. Last one I saw extended was #C54, the lowest point exiting the turnaround. Support numbers are taken from: 

[TheBeast54]

13 hours ago, DeltaFlyer said:

On Diamondback, there is an additional footing at the base of the first drop connecting two existing footings, and an additional one added near the bottom of the second drop. 

Orion: there is one footing that has been enlarged at the helix, appears to be #C102L (or in that area… hard to see) Another at the lowest point before the helix has been extended outward toward Racer, looks like #C85. Last one I saw extended was #C54, the lowest point exiting the turnaround. Support numbers are taken from: 

Interesting how they referred to the former Firehawk photo booth/now Orion entrance as an "existing food building". 

[Tr0y]

I’m surprised no other park has taken this incident and made a marketing video of a backstage tour on how their coasters are kept safe with daily checks and stuff. If I was in marketing for a competing park I would be throwing major shade towards Carowinds.

[jsus]

43 minutes ago, Tr0y said:

I’m surprised no other park has taken this incident and made a marketing video of a backstage tour on how their coasters are kept safe with daily checks and stuff. If I was in marketing for a competing park I would be throwing major shade towards Carowinds.

Let's just say it's a good thing you aren't employed in the marketing department of an amusement/theme park...

[TombRaiderFTW]

1 hour ago, Tr0y said:

I’m surprised no other park has taken this incident and made a marketing video of a backstage tour on how their coasters are kept safe with daily checks and stuff. If I was in marketing for a competing park I would be throwing major shade towards Carowinds.

Why, though? The amusement industry is already perceived as being unsafe by many Americans. How does publicly throwing a major player under the bus do anything besides make that negative perception worse for every park in the country? Remember that the general public neither knows nor cares to know the difference between a Fun Spot and a Cedar Fair. Enthusiast perception is not the reality of the market.

It's also not like Cedar Fair or Carowinds are in the business of being negligent. Obviously, this wasn't anticipated. If you make a big production of throwing one park under the bus and then it happens to you as unexpectedly as it did to them... Where does that leave the public perception of the industry then? You've sold your colleagues for a shot at more ticket sales, and it wouldn't have even paid off for you.

[Tr0y]

You gotta throw shade! It’s a missed opportunity! This can be done subtly by Showcasing your maintenance department and promoting  yourself. You know how many companies throw shade at McDonald’s Ice cream machines because they are constantly down?

Also any amusement park incident or accident that makes national news looks bad for the industry as a whole. You gotta make it seem as if it’s a them problem and not a you problem. 
 

[jsus]

3 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

Why, though? The amusement industry is already perceived as being unsafe by many Americans. How does publicly throwing a major player under the bus do anything besides make that negative perception worse for every park in the country? Remember that the general public neither knows nor cares to know the difference between a Fun Spot and a Cedar Fair. Enthusiast perception is not the reality of the market.

It's also not like Cedar Fair or Carowinds are in the business of being negligent. Obviously, this wasn't anticipated. If you make a big production of throwing one park under the bus and then it happens to you as unexpectedly as it did to them... Where does that leave the public perception of the industry then? You've sold your colleagues for a shot at more ticket sales, and it wouldn't have even paid off for you.

Exactly.  It would be like saying, look, Carowinds is unsafe!  See how scary roller coasters are?

Oh but don't worry, ours are perfectly safe!  Come out to Not Carowinds today!

When it comes to safety, the smart play is to play up the safety of the whole industry, and focus on how you lead the way.  You don't want people thinking about your industry and safety hazards, even at your competitors.  That's just mutual destruction territory.

[Tr0y]

No I’m not saying blatantly call out Carowinds. You would do it subtly by showing off how your park does its daily inspections and showcasing your maintenance department. 

[TombRaiderFTW]

1 minute ago, Tr0y said:

You gotta throw shade! It’s a missed opportunity! Showcase your maintenance department and promote yourself. You know how many companies throw shade at McDonald’s Ice cream machines because they are constantly down?

Also any amusement park incident or accident that makes national news looks bad for the industry as a whole. You gotta make it seem as if it’s a them problem and you problem. 
 

Ice cream machines being down aren't perceived as a threat to human lives. That's the difference. McDonald's ice cream machines being down doesn't make Wendy's customers wary of buying a Frosty. Amusement parks don't exist in a vacuum the way fast food, for example, does.

Yes, a nationally publicized park incident makes the whole industry look bad. What you are missing is that organizations like the ASTM F24 committee, IAAPA, etc. exist to help professionals support each other and improve safety for everyone. Company lines have no meaningful presence in those places, because a loss for one is a loss for everyone. I know nothing, but I guarantee you that Fury is and will be discussed heavily there so that this does not happen again.

The industry is much, much more of a family than various Twitter feeds would lead you to believe.

[SonofBaconator]

@Tr0y I don’t think that’s the best thing to do in response to this type of incident.

[jsus]

13 minutes ago, TombRaiderFTW said:

Ice cream machines being down aren't perceived as a threat to human lives. That's the difference. McDonald's ice cream machines being down doesn't make Wendy's customers wary of buying a Frosty. Amusement parks don't exist in a vacuum the way fast food, for example, does.

Yes, a nationally publicized park incident makes the whole industry look bad. What you are missing is that organizations like the ASTM F24 committee, IAAPA, etc. exist to help professionals support each other and improve safety for everyone. Company lines have no meaningful presence in those places, because a loss for one is a loss for everyone. I know nothing, but I guarantee you that Fury is and will be discussed heavily there so that this does not happen again.

The industry is much, much more of a family than various Twitter feeds would lead you to believe.

It's more like if you said that McD's play structures were death traps, but it's okay, yours are totally safe!  Now you've put the idea in your potential guests' heads that these things can be unsafe.

There's absolutely no comparison to be made between legitimate safety concerns and saying that you reliably have a frozen dairy dessert product available whereas your well-known competitor seems to have trouble doing the same.

And here's my biggest problem with this line of thought.  We still don't know when the crack actually became visible 1) up close, or 2) from the ground staring straight up 50-100' in the air, going from support to support, in the dark, day after day, where you basically never see anything significant.

So if you, a competitor to Carowinds, are going to go and tell me all about how your safety practices would've prevented something like this (with or without directly saying it), please explain the exact processes you undertake to visually inspect every square inch of the entire steel structure as well as the concrete foundations, every single morning.  Because that's not something anyone has ever claimed to do.  Even a 100% track walk would not allow visual detection of the crack at Fury, not even climbing over the top rail and trying to crane your neck down past the box spine of the track.

Now, if you know of another park that does comprehensive daily drone inspections of every square inch of track, please let us know.

[disco2000]

So car manufacturers never tout the safety rankings they get?  They never produce videos showing what goes into making their cars safer?

I think many took his comment a little too literally.  He wasn't saying to actually call out Fury. A park coming out with a video showing how they inspect rides can be done respectfully and without mentioning Fury by name would be good not only for said park but for the whole industry.  Given all the events happening this year, such a video is needed in the industry.

I seem to recall when KK Drop happened, that parks were quick to point out they had a different model.

[jsus]

5 minutes ago, disco2000 said:

So car manufacturers never tout the safety rankings they get?  They never produce videos showing what goes into making their cars safer?

I think many took his comment a little too literally.  He wasn't saying to actually call out Fury. A park coming out with a video showing how they inspect rides can be done respectfully and without mentioning Fury by name would be good not only for said park but for the whole industry.  Given all the events happening this year, such a video is needed in the industry.

I seem to recall when KK Drop happened, that parks were quick to point out they had a different model.

Which car manufacturers came out in response to Toyota's sudden unintended acceleration fiasco and said, see, our cars can't do that because XYZ?  They don't do that.  They don't draw attention to themselves when a competitor's product is experiencing (potential) defects.

Which OEM made light of Ford's Explorer rollover fiasco?

Which OEM comments on how few recalls they issue vs. XYZ competitor?

That doesn't happen in the auto industry.  Discussing the safety features in your own product is selling the strengths of your product.  Hyping up your product in comparison to your competitors' products experiencing safety defects is not the same and doesn't happen in that realm.

Any time there is an incident involving a ride, guests are going to assume that similar rides are the same.  During the incident of which you speak, you'll recall that all rides from the same manufacturer were shut down until the incident could be better understood and prevented going forward.  Naturally, the public will ask, why isn't your ride closed?  The correct response is to share that the ride is from another manufacturer.  That's not commenting on the safety of the other ride, it's saying that the safety of yours hasn't been called into question.  Not the same.