super7 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 Btw. An ethical business offers refunds (even prorated is ethical). Keeping people’s money when they don’t get what they expected is NEVER good business in the long run. just like 2020. They did not give refunds when they could not provide what was expected. They carried it over to 2021 and some people may not have been able to attend that year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 4 hours ago, super7 said: just like 2020. They did not give refunds when they could not provide what was expected. They carried it over to 2021 and some people may not have been able to attend that year I think that is taking it a bit too far. That, unlike the prestige issue, the reduced days and hours issue, and the budget cut issue, was completely out of their control. They did work with people in individual cases. I'd venture a conjecture that all these issues we are facing now would not be in the discussion had COVID 19 not been in the equation. . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 3 hours ago, BeeastFarmer said: I think that is taking it a bit too far. That, unlike the prestige issue, the reduced days and hours issue, and the budget cut issue, was completely out of their control. They did work with people in individual cases. I'd venture a conjecture that all these issues we are facing now would not be in the discussion had COVID 19 not been in the equation. . It was also out of the control of the customers. It wasn’t their fault. I personally was happy with the extended 2021 pass as many people were, but there were people that could not use a pass in 2021 and they deserved a refund if the pass was unused It’s just not high ethics to keep someone’s money without providing a service or good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 8 hours ago, Tr0y said: Making payments with the season pass payment plan is “subject to availability.” -Caveat Venditor That was always my point. If terms are subject to change… why not have it both ways? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyGuy4KI Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 This very KICentral thread makes the news in an article by John Matarese. https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/kings-island-trims-2024-hours-removes-one-week-of-operations 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 5 hours ago, super7 said: It was also out of the control of the customers. It wasn’t their fault. I personally was happy with the extended 2021 pass as many people were, but there were people that could not use a pass in 2021 and they deserved a refund if the pass was unused It’s just not high ethics to keep someone’s money without providing a service or good. I think you are focused on the outliers. And I have heard of many of those folks getting refunds. But if you want a refund and still live close to the park, I think it's reasonable to not give one. If the pass was used at the end of 2019, I think it's reasonable to not offer a refund, even if the person moved away and couldn't use it in 2021. The reason they are in the shape they are in is directly related to the pandemic. The decisions they have made over this season are related, and very short sighted. It will harm them in the long term. But I'd rather have an open park than a park that closed down because of circumstances out of management control. What did Dollywood do for season passholders who did not want 2021 free? If they didn't offer blanket refunds, would they be an unethical company? Let's say you were the decision maker for Cedar Fair and were tasked with a solution for this problem. What would you have done, knowing how precariously your company was dangling over the edge of a cliff? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted November 13 Author Share Posted November 13 2 minutes ago, IndyGuy4KI said: This very KICentral thread makes the news in an article by John Matarese. https://www.wcpo.com/money/consumer/dont-waste-your-money/kings-island-trims-2024-hours-removes-one-week-of-operations Too bad he didn't counter the argument that other parks like Dollywood, are expanding their calendar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 Hahahahah Why don’t they just do they way did last year? There was a wait list! Oh wait.. he was lying… both times. #ChadGonnaChad 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beastfan11 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 Hahahaha. The guy’s pulling excuses directly from some posters/posts on this site. Hilarious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 2 hours ago, beastfan11 said: Hahahaha. The guy’s pulling excuses directly from some posters/posts on this site. Hilarious. John Matarese is a silly and would never have anything to "report" if it wasn't for... 1) This website 2) Apple releasing new iPhones (he does the SAME story every year) 3) His target demographic falling for his scare tactics constantly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted November 13 Author Share Posted November 13 I know they have historical employment data, but if it has been shown they have to cut dates/hours, then maybe it is time to re-think the hiring process. Dollywood does very well with the older community as an example. I know many older people that do PM hours at KI and have seen the schedule and figure they really won't be getting hours until after Memorial day now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 4 minutes ago, disco2000 said: I know they have historical employment data, but if it has been shown they have to cut dates/hours, then maybe it is time to re-think the hiring process. Dollywood does very well with the older community as an example. I know many older people that do PM hours at KI and have seen the schedule and figure they really won't be getting hours until after Memorial day now. If Dollywood had dorms and Kings Island didn’t, they’d use that excuse. Dollywood figured it out. Kings Island devalued the product. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeeastFarmer Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 Interesting that he responded after the story was published. But to be fair, the unknown is how quickly they needed to publish. Did they ask for comment last week or ten minutes before the story was published? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted November 14 Share Posted November 14 Regardless of the shortening of hours and days of operation. I’ll be getting more than my moneys worth out of the 2024 season pass. A lot of people here can probably say the same. Also to keep things in perspective: Dollywood Silver pass = $159 waterpark not included. Busch Gardens Williamsburg Basic 1 park pass = $165 waterpark not included. Kings Island Gold Pass = $130 Waterpark included. Holiday World Season Pass = $165 w/ unlimited drinks. Not to mention BGW’s Basic Pass and Dollywood’s Silver Pass have blackout dates. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion-XL200 Posted November 14 Share Posted November 14 All I can say is lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted November 14 Author Share Posted November 14 Has anyone seen the job postings for the 2024 season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tr0y Posted November 14 Share Posted November 14 8 hours ago, BoddaH1994 said: Why don’t they just do they way did last year? There was a wait list! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted November 14 Share Posted November 14 12 hours ago, Tr0y said: It’s the gift that keeps on giving, Clark. All year long. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klabergian Empire Posted November 14 Share Posted November 14 I love how KI is just randomly scheduled to be open Sunday, September 8, 2024, from 10-8 without being open the rest of the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
disco2000 Posted November 14 Author Share Posted November 14 Just now, Klabergian Empire said: I love how KI is just randomly scheduled to be open Sunday, September 8, 2024, from 10-8 without being open the rest of the weekend. To be fair they are open for private event that weekend (at least usually), so it isn't like only one day. Or we see this day disappear if a company decides to buy out the park. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
super7 Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 Staffing issues = we won’t pay enough to attract workers. Back to Dollywood again! I went on WEEKDAYS in Sept and now there this week on weekdays Fully staffed. ALL rides open except seasonal water rides and of course Lightning Rod is down. Huge live entertainment lineup. But get this. ALL restaurants, food stands and shops are open All rides fully staffed. Running trams. But cost cutting Cedar Fair can’t “find” workers in a huge metro area. On 11/13/2023 at 7:24 PM, Tr0y said: Regardless of the shortening of hours and days of operation. I’ll be getting more than my moneys worth out of the 2024 season pass. A lot of people here can probably say the same. Also to keep things in perspective: Dollywood Silver pass = $159 waterpark not included. Busch Gardens Williamsburg Basic 1 park pass = $165 waterpark not included. Kings Island Gold Pass = $130 Waterpark included. Holiday World Season Pass = $165 w/ unlimited drinks. Not to mention BGW’s Basic Pass and Dollywood’s Silver Pass have blackout dates. One gets what one pays for. That low pass price is one reason the Cedar Fair experience is C class at best. On 11/13/2023 at 11:47 AM, BeeastFarmer said: I think you are focused on the outliers. And I have heard of many of those folks getting refunds. But if you want a refund and still live close to the park, I think it's reasonable to not give one. If the pass was used at the end of 2019, I think it's reasonable to not offer a refund, even if the person moved away and couldn't use it in 2021. The reason they are in the shape they are in is directly related to the pandemic. The decisions they have made over this season are related, and very short sighted. It will harm them in the long term. But I'd rather have an open park than a park that closed down because of circumstances out of management control. What did Dollywood do for season passholders who did not want 2021 free? If they didn't offer blanket refunds, would they be an unethical company? Let's say you were the decision maker for Cedar Fair and were tasked with a solution for this problem. What would you have done, knowing how precariously your company was dangling over the edge of a cliff? Offer passes good for 2020 2021 as they did with the option for refunds or cancellation of payment plans of unused passes. People were unemployed then. They kept their money. They are in the shape they are in because of a bad business plan then the pandemic hit. High debt due to over expansion (the Paramount parks, installing 20 plus million coasters etc. Depending on prepaid revenue (paying todays bills with tomorrows ticket sales) Thsts not a business plan that can withstand any hurdle too well. The build-the-biggest/most coaster race and the cheap season pass route did a lot of damage to the theme park industry stability 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad decision Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 Closing at 10pm during summer days is the worst decision the park could have made. The hiring process is very complicated. Make changes to the hiring process and you would have staff. And I’m speaking from experience. In my teenage years I would have interviews with the park even a second interview, get uniforms and etc but when it came time to start I would never get a call back and couldn’t get in touch with anyone I experienced this twice. Then in the recent years I took my sister to the park multiple times for interviews and she experienced the same thing. So, look into the hiring process and make it not so difficult then you will have more staff. Me and my family enjoy going to KI on summer days and staying until midnight after dark is the funniest times. Now I will wait on purchasing season passes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoan Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 Keeping Kings Island separate from the rest of CF Parks since I'm unfamiliar with them. I think it's interesting they are claiming a labor shortage for next year when they haven't begun the process of hiring anyone yet when the forecast is workers looking for jobs has been increasing in the past year. The day cutting I can allow, but what I'd love to see is a few days earmarked as "potentials" for extending the operating season if hiring goes better than expected. The hour cutting doesn't make a ton of sense, I feel late night is the most populated times. I'd like to know what predictive metrics they have to show the hour cuts are going to be worth the risk of scaring away travelers with the chance of it being crowded and now having less time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 So if the SPX says the calendar is subject to change, wouldn’t it be reasonable to say that the smart thing, for those who haven’t purchased their passes yet, would be to wait until on or just before opening day to make their purchasing decision so they have a better feel of what the product they are purchasing looks like? Some people only make a handful of visits per year. Being pushed out of one or two via the calendar may deem whether the pass a reasonable value for them or not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion-XL200 Posted November 15 Share Posted November 15 1 hour ago, Stoan said: Keeping Kings Island separate from the rest of CF Parks since I'm unfamiliar with them. I think it's interesting they are claiming a labor shortage for next year when they haven't begun the process of hiring anyone yet when the forecast is workers looking for jobs has been increasing in the past year. The day cutting I can allow, but what I'd love to see is a few days earmarked as "potentials" for extending the operating season if hiring goes better than expected. The hour cutting doesn't make a ton of sense, I feel late night is the most populated times. I'd like to know what predictive metrics they have to show the hour cuts are going to be worth the risk of scaring away travelers with the chance of it being crowded and now having less time. Well this year they were “fully staffed” yet they didn’t have full staffing on ride platforms, drink stands/restaurants closed, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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