Shaggy

Also, there was a wild mouse coaster at Cincinnati's Coney Island for a time period before KI opened. Perhaps there's confusion with that?

I believe that's a typo... it should be "German CLOCK Shop." They sold cukoo clocks there. Shaggy

Many people perceive the installation of a multitude of large rides and attractions over a short period of time to equal a "successful park." Although in it's early days it had a multitude of large rides installed in a short period of time, KK was never was never the "success" many think it was. Shaggy

I've ridden all but two on the list... By far the best is Montu at BGT. Carowinds Afterburn is a distant second. It has has a segment of "dead time." Great Bear also suffers from the same "down time." I'm not a big fan of the Batmans. Raptor ranks higher than those, but I really don't like the "oops" at the end of Raptor just before the final brake run. Alpengeist also hs an "ooops" when entering the mid-course brakes. Shaggy

Wow, that's cool. What is that yellow stand up coaster in the video? King Cobra. It was one of my favorites. The YELLOW stand up coaster in the video (:41) is not King Cobra. It's actually footage of Shockwave at Kings Dominion, I believe. If I recall, Sockwave had it's loop painted yellow for a while prior to the park re-painting the coaster with it's current light-purple color. (Originally when Shockwave opened, the track was dark blue and the rails yellow... I believe.) King Cobra is possibly shown earlier in the video. It's the clip of the riders coming towards the camera and the train tilts sideways at the :30 mark. You can verify it's possibly King Cobra (not just because of the trains) but because KI's version featured the side-leaning trick track (Shockwave doesn't have that.) However there's a possibility it could be Skyrider... a duplicate of KI's King Cobra at Wonderland. It also features the side-ways trick track, however to my knowledge, it's always had red/orange restraints. What throws me are the trees in the background and the people standing directly next to the trick track element. King Cobra did not have a path next to the trick track. Skyrider does. Shaggy Edit: In addition, I believe the shot of the Smurf with the kids under the "rainbow" to be filmed at Wonderland. So the clips of the rides an attractions in the park are obviously a conglomeration of clips from all 3 Keco parks.

The Monerail Station was approximately where the Skyflyer is. The layout used not only the SOB grounds, but the FOF and Firehawk land as well. The Race For Your Life Charlie Brown is the former Kings Mill Log Flume - same ride, but had it's trough replaced about 10 years ago. The Ferris Wheel was next to the Festhouse, not near Viking Fury. Someone earlier mentioned the Rotor... it had 2 locations in the park right of the Bavarian Beetle - then moved to the left of the Beetle when Wild Animal Habitat opened. There's a wonderful tool on this site that many overlook. It's the answer to many of the endless "Where was the ____ located?" questions. The tool is the History Section... here's a few links that may help folks. [/url]http://www.KICentral.com/history/photos/albums/userpics/10002/LionCountrySafariUnknownCoasterBayernKerveSkyRide%281975%29.jpg http://www.KICentral.com/history/photos/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=59 http://www.KICentral.com/history/photos/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=63 http://www.KICentral.com/history/photos/displayimage.php?album=11&pos=60 http://www.KICentral.com/history/photos/displayimage.php?album=9&pos=30

One of the windows on Main Street at Disneyland features Bushman's name. Those that follow Disney Parks know that the highest honor in all Disney is to have your name memorialized somewhere on Main Street. Although I question it's validity a bit, here is a picture of (I believe) Mr Bushman at work for Disney. Mr Bushman was always described as "husky" so Walt used him as a guide for the attraction seats at Disneyland. Because he was larger, if he fit, then Walt knew all parents would be able to fit in the attractions and ride with their kids. This photo does not suggest his being "husky," but then it's an early photo circa 1953 (pre-production time of 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea.) Mr Bushman was fond of playing Santa at Christmas... this fellow doesn't look very Santa-like to me ;-) None-the-less, if it's him, then it is a rare look at the man responsible for KI's International Street.

I just found the link to Bushman's concept art for the Flintstones park that never materialized... here you go: http://mistertoast.blogspot.com/2007/04/hanna-barbera-land.html

I don't think KK is, was, or will be a threat to KI. KI is a "destination park." wheras KK is percived as a local "day" park. It's land-locked, so unless they pull up stakes and re-build it outside of Louisville for $200 Mil, it's not going to evolve into a desitnation. As far as tourists go... KK was a tack-on. Meaning it was something people added when visiting Louisville... and was (IMO) rarely the main draw for out-of-state tourists. Shaggy

I believe the overall consensus here in Louisville was that it was unclean, unsafe, and attracted a dynamic of teens that were troublesome. I still stand by my original statement that the closure of KK is not a loss to Louisville. It's a loss to Mr Workman, who just so happens to be good friends with Ed Hart.

I've never heard Curtis Summer mentioned with the Eiffel Tower's design. Here's what I do know: Around the 1968 season, the heads of Cincinnati Coney Island decided to install an observation tower to take the place of the Lost River dark ride attraction. Gary Wachs (the man responsible for KI) met with Intamin in Zurich Switzerland and ordered a tower. When the Taft monetary backing for KI's construction was obtained - Wachs immediately called and postponed the order from Intamin. Wachs then hired a gentleman by the name of Bruce Bushman from Hollywood to conceptualize the park's main entrance plaza and entrance theming. Mr Bushman was one of Walt Disney's Imagineers who had been a key player in the development of Disneyland. He spent a good part of his career as a layout artist with Disney. He worked on many Disney shorts and movies such as Pinnochio. When "Uncle Walt" began developing Disneyland, Mr Bushman was immediately transferred to WED Design as one of the original Imagineers. At WED, he was placed in charge of designing/conceptualizing perhaps the most crucial part of Disneyland's themed areas - Fantasyland. He is credited as giving the area it's original feel and designing many of those unforgettable early Disneyland character dark rides. Bruce Bushman eventually left Disney and moved to Hanna Barbera productions where he returned to his animation/layout artist roots. During this time, he conceptualized the idea for a Flintstones themed amusement park - of which renderings and proposals exist to this very day. The Flintstones park never materialized, obviously, and eventually Hanna Barbera was encorporated into KI's design. At the end of his career, he become an individual consultant to many regional theme parks cropping up across the US in the late 1960's and early 1970s. It was Bushman who developed the concept of "International Street" at KI encorporating the parameters Wachs had given him (Octoberfest theming, an observation tower, shops, eateries and elaborate fountains - all of which Wachs had seen at the World's Fair years eariler. ) For the fountain construction/installation, the head of the Cincinnati Coney Island Sunlite pool's operation at the time - Charlie Flack - was placed in charge. As part of Bushman's design concept, the Fountains lead to an elaborate observation tower themed to the Eiffel Tower. So thus the tower became as the park's focal point... and Wachs and Bushman presented the concept to Intamin. Intamin then engineered the ride, and it was built in Graz Austria and partially dissasembled. The ride was shipped overseas in a pre-assembled state and the components re-assembled at the park. The total cost of the Eiffel Tower's engineering, shipping and install was $1.4 million. Mr Bushman died in February 1972, 4 months before KI opened. He never saw the full realization of his concept for KI's grand entrance. Shaggy

I'll throw my $.02 into the fire here... I am not one to advise someone to start slow. I don't think "building up" is necessarily a wise thing. If you tackle the largest, most intimidating coaster first, you're likely to be less concerned with others you ride therafter and more likely to enjoy. Of course I'd also advise you to rip a band-aid off quickly. IMO, you should always face a fear head on... that way you gain control. Lord knows I do... I am a control freak ;-) Shaggy

Fun trivia worth noting... When the park first opened, the Eiffel Tower observation levels only had the 4 foot permiter fence on each deck. That's right, all you had holding you back was the 4 foot railing! Here's a pic from opening day in 1972... note the railings (Or lack thereof): In the mid 1970s the park installed the metal "cheesegrater" fencing to the base of the railings (under the 4 foot railing) on each observation deck. Why? 1. Guests would set items down only to accidently kick them off. 2. Children would attempt to squeeze their heads and bodies between the bars. They also added bars that extended about 2' above the 4' perimeter railing on the 265' and 275' decks. Here's a pic circa 1975's: The 1981 "Tower Johnny" accident prompted several changes to the Eiffel Tower. 1. The 50 foot platform was closed. (most know this already.) 2. As noted above, the railings on the 265' platform prior to the accident were simply bars that extended up 4 feet, then a railing, then another 2 feet above that. They did not extend to the top of each opening. After the accident, the bars were extended to the top. 3. As noted above, the railings on the 275' platform prior to the accident were also simply bars that extended up 4 feet, then a railing, then another 2 feet above that. The "ceiling" of bars on the top platform did not exist. After the accident, the bars were extended to enclose the entire platform. And here's the tower as it exists from 1981 to today: Shaggy

Not trying to fan a flame... but Hercules was indeed overhauled quite extensively... Below is the detailed list (courtesy of my long time coaster bud Sparky from URC.) From 1991-1994 all kinds of modifications were perfomed to the ride to take it from intense/rough to rough/borng/pointless.... Pneumatic squeeze trim brakes installed at top of the big drop. This created a domino effect requiring the following modifications: 1) Track on the lake turn lowered from about a 60 degree bank to around 40-45 (the entire track bed was removed and re-installed). 2) The top of the second drop was lowered nearly 20 ft from a double up into a slow and boring ramp. This in essence made the rest of the ride painfully boring. Because the banking on the reamining turns in the ride was not modified to reflect the new slower speed trains had while navigating the course, the turn felt un-natural as riders would slide in their seats towards the inside of the turn instead of how the the ride was initially designed to deliver. I haven't found real documentation on this, but I also want to say the first drop itself was lowered, as it originally opened with a drop marketed at 157 ft but later was touted as 148 ft. Another interesting Hercules tidbit was involving the lawsuit between the Weinstein Family and Six Flags over the title of "World's Tallest Wooden Coaster". In 1990, the Texas Giant debuted with a lift of 143 ft and a first drop of 137 ft. Meanwhile, Hercules had a lift of only 95 ft, but a higher drop than Texas Giant thanks to the terrain driven site. Not sure what the outcome of the lawsuit was, but it all put to rest in 1991 when the 161 ft tall Mean Streak opened (followed in 1992 by the even taller Rattler). Shaggy

You are correct... in addition... Originally, the exotic bird show was in a similar ampitheatre near the location of Timberwolf. The bird show was tucked away in the corner where the Invertigo Plaza now exists. Here's a pic: Shaggy So, is that the entirety of the Adventure Village area? From the things people here had said (real parakeets in the trees, waterfalls, jungle music, etc) I imagined it being similar to Kings Dominion's current Congo area (forested, jungle drum soundtrack, dark, well-landscaped, secluded)... The area in that photo looks rather devoid of trees, theme, and... well... beauty. Is that photo of the adventure area in its prime? Am I missing something? GYK, who always blindly agreed with those who said Adventure Village was much nicer than Action Zone simply based on the theme, but who, upon seeing this photo, is thinking he may have been wrong... Nope, that's the area sometime around it's 2nd or 3rd season ('75 or '76)... Here's a pic (albeit fa fuzzy one...) of it in it's prime:

You are correct... in addition... Originally, the exotic bird show was in a similar ampitheatre near the location of Timberwolf. The bird show was tucked away in the corner where the Invertigo Plaza now exists. Here's a pic: Shaggy

From what I was told, several of the animals from the Wild Animal Habitat resided at the Cincinnati Zoo during the off season. As I have aged, I've become less tolerant of caged animals for the purpose of human amusement. I tend to be much more forgiving of Sea Worlds or Busch-esque parks. However, I personally am glad to see the days of holding dolphins captive in 50' diameter pools are gone. Even as a kid I recall thinking "The dolphin show is cool, but they sure don't have much space to swim." Oh, and earlier I failed to mention that in the latter years it was a 3-season rotation between the parks. Dolphins, Birds and Sea Lions. I recall a rumor (I'll call it that as I don't have proof of fact) that a Sea Lion died at KD under curious circumstances. They performed an autopsy and discovered the Sea Lion had died from ingesting pennies thrown into the pool. Again, I don't have proof, but seem to recall my parents seeing it on the news or reading about it in the paper. Shaggy

They were transported off property to a Marine Life tank in the south, from what I have been told. In addition, if memory serves me... the Dolphins weren't at KI every season in latter years of the Dolphin stadium's existence. The dolphins were roated season to season at the other parks (i.e. KD) What I mean is, KI may have had the dolphins one season and the next the arena housed an exotic bird show with a stage built on top of the pool. This began when the bird arena in Wild Animal Habitat was removed, I believe.

Thanks. There's a ton of *speculation* as to the actual location of the new 2011 attraction. My personal belief is that WindSeeker will be placed directly next to The Racer in the general area of the now removed Lazer tag dome. IMO, that's why the dome was removed in the first place. Cedar Fair has a long history of "preparing" areas seasons ahead of time. So from the time I heard that the dome was removed, I immediately figured the site was being prepped for a future attraction. I've not seen the Euro Balls, or whatever they are called, but doubt they have much bearing on the location of the install. A temporary, upcharge can easily give way to a new permanent install. Finally, IMO, it wouldn't seem wise to install WindSeeker in a tucked-away corner next to a busy coaster exit. Perhaps I am very wrong, but placement behind Vortex just wouldn't seem *right* to me. Locating it in the fomer Lazer Tag/Flight Commander site - directly on the midway - seems much more esthetically correct to me. Shaggy

The reason that sign was up was because they had originally planned on putting the Drop Tower on Flight Commanders ride pad. If memory serves me correctly, the original Drop Tower/Drop Zone was planned to be around 200ft until another park broke that record. Paramount then determined that it was necessary to relocate the ride to a site that would accommodate the weight of the tower. The Drop Zone tower planned for KI in 1997 was installed at Canada's Wonderland. KI made the decision, after initially promoting the Drop Tower in park, to expand the waterpark instead. Cedar Point was also expanding their waterpark (Soak City) in 1997 and KI opted to directly compete with them. The decision to install the gyro drop in what is now Action Zone, was not made until the 1998 season when Al Webber pushed to renovate the Adventure Villiage section of the park. This decision came in preperation for the future install of SOB and as a desire to re-invigorate that area of the park. The weight of the tower had little to do with the placement change. No matter where it would have gone, the immense steel girders would have had to be pounded into the ground to support it. The re-theme of the area is what promted it's install location. Shaggy

I totally forgot there used to be a pond over there too! That's not KI... that's King's Dominion.

Hmmm... Superman ROS at SF America is a coaster I enjoy quite a bit. It's a mirror of the one built at Darien Lake. I've ridden both and find the Darien Lake version just a bit more enjoyable. Unfortunately, both have some unmistakable "lagging" moments. However, the Superman ROS that everyone raves about is at Six Flags New England. It is now themed to Bizarro But IMO it's the best coaster in existance today. If you've not ridden it... plan to someday! Shaggy

Incorrect. All you have READ, and decided to retain, is the part about the shade. ;-) In this thread, I also said: -HW's dry park does not offer (enough) things that hold my interest from more than 1/2 a day. -I find Voyage to be extremely overrated and rough. -I find the layout cumbersome and confusing to novices. I could list other things (such as "cleanest park." It's clean, but not the cleanest I've been to.) But - repeating myself - I try not to compare one park to another. They all offer different things, some better, some worse. The following was stated: Holiday World is my favorite park so I always can get defensive about it! Bingo - that was exactly my point all along... there are people that are so passionate about HW (all entitled to that opinion) that they can be blinded to the fact that others may not share their feelings. I don't share your opinion, but I am not negating it. I posted my original $.02 because I agreed with a number of the points in the original TR. Also, I strongly feel that a person's experiences should not be negated based simply to root for a favorite park. Finally, a disclaimer: My expression of opinions on this board is not done in a defensive or malicious manner, so please don't ever interpret my posts in that way. Direct I am, a sourpuss I am not ;-)

Obviously folks are missing my point, yet ironically, prooving it. First, let's get this out of the way... again... I personally think the newer areas of HW have large areas of concrete/asphalt with little to no shading. That INCLUDES Splashin Safari. But the larger point I was making is many larger parks, such as KI's Boomerang Bay or Action Zone... or Cedar Point... or Knotts... etc all have areas that suffer from the same issue. However, because Holiday World is "beloved" by so many fans, it's shortcomings and flaws are often overlooked. Many folks are quick to defend HW's flaws yet hold it against other parks, that's been exhemplified here. Second, when I said I'd prefer other parks over HW, I meant it. I don't find HW to be among my most fufilling park experiences. *SHOCK! HORROR! BLASPHEME!* I'd much rather go to a handful of others if given the choice. Top of the list would likely be KI... hence the reason I am posting on a KI fansite and not a HW fansite. (Apparently that fact gets lost easily LOL!) I try not to compare parks to parks... that's like comparing apples to oranges in many instances. However I know my tastes and what holds my interests. HW holds my interest for about 1/2 a day. That's not saying I don't enjoy it... it simply means I don't find enough to hold my attention. I can have a good time there, and have, but don't care to spend full or multiple days at the park. Think of it this way... that's actually good news for you folks that may seem upset by my opinion... it means one less suburned person in line ahead of you at HW ;-) Shaggy

Is that really a complaint? You want shading, go inside or ride a water ride. Yes, it's a complaint. I don't care for overly unshaded areas. Go inside? Ride a water ride? Is that really a SOLUTION? Oy vey! And I love Knoebels, but how do you mention that as a park with more to do than HW .. ? Where did I say it had more to do than HW? I didn't. It just appeals to me more than HW ever has. My opinion, you're not going to change it.