bkroz

Avatar, if that is the case, I'd be more than happy. I can see beautiful, twinkling LED's added to the tree's canopy and to the exploration trails around the base. If a few animatronic, Pandorian "flowers" and jumping water fountains were added to those gardens interwoven through the roots, it would truly be a beautiful, serene, peaceful place. Glowing water, twinkling leaves, etc. It's the idea of an entire new land being added that I'm not comfortable with. Some films, like Indiana Jones and Star Wars, have lasting appeal and fit very seamlessly into the parks in which their attractions exist (for example, Disneyland's Adventureland recieving a 'lost delta,' 1940's style jungle motif to match their Temple of the Forbidden Eye). The other intellectual properties are truly at home in their respective enviornments. As I said, if this is a new "land," like the park's Asia, Africa, Discovery Island, etc. then I'll feel let down. Especially since the very world of AVATAR is so massive and overwhelming (the floating mountains, cliffs, rivers, etc) I don't think it realistically could translate into a real, physical space. Again, I'd be pleased as punch if this is just one attraction placed on Discovery Island, and if the park gets its own twinkling-lights, jumping-water overhaul to go with it. But I don't think that the AVATAR property demands or requires an entire new "land," and as I said, I can't see them finding an e-ticket attraction to match unless it uses Spiderman's technology, Harry Potter's technology, or is a roller coaster. A film in the Tree of Life would be awesome. But a whole land? That leaves a sour taste in my mouth. But they noted that construction will begin in 2013, and that the AVATAR addition is about a five year plan from start to finish, so that would put its opening around 2016. Three years of construction sure sounds like a massive new land...

Somehow, this still comes across as a forced partnership to me. As fantastic as Disney is, I can honestly say I have never seen them create an immersive environment anywhere even close to those seen at Islands of Adventure, and I can't see how they'll create the sweeping, glowing landscapes of AVATAR, especially in a way that makes sense in Animal Kingdom. I truly don't think any intellectual property could conquer Harry Potter in terms of pop culture permeation, but AVATAR wouldn't have even been in my top five runner-ups... And while this announcement is certainly intriguing, I haven't seen the massive jubilation and excitement that followed Harry Potter's announcement. Even with the pending sequels, I don't imagine AVATAR as a massive, noteworthy, Disney-friendly property. I would've expected superheroes instead. And for Animal Kingdom, "dueling dragons" aside, a land celebrating mythological creatures (dragons, unicorns, Fantasia, etc) would've been a really nice, exciting, whimsical fit. Again, this feels... forced, and like a very weak tie-in to Animal Kingdom was concocted last minute. Even the wording in the quote above makes it seem as if this entire project was designed, and then they tried to find a place for it instead of trying to build it into a park. If it were a traveling exhibit or something (like the Prince Caspian walk-through at DHS), it would make more sense. But they make it sound like this will be a new "land." Even if it is, the e-ticket attraction anchoring it seems like it'd have to be either a Spiderman-type ride or a Harry Potter type ride, and either would come across as a very obvious copy... Like Avatar, I have mixed feelings...

I think everyone's taking this trick-or-treat thing wayyy too seriously. Howl-O-Fest still exists, exactly the same way it existed in past years. But this year, instead of five people passing out tootsie rolls while sitting in foldable chairs, you can have a really unique, fun, trick-or-treating experience in an animatronic dinosaur park. If you don't want to do it, you don't have to, but you can still do the normal Howl-o-Fest things in the picnic grove either way. This year, Kings Island got a really unique exhibit and is trying to capitalize on it. Again, if Disney or Universal did this (which, by the way, they do with their $70+ hard ticket Halloween events) no one sees a problem. But because we tend to see Kings Island as a lovely, beautiful, honorable place where we spent our childhood, we refuse to see it as a business. I think this decision falls nicely in between - it creates a fun, new, memorable family experience and also earns money. I would say that it should be $2 - $3 instead of $5 since the children will likely be running from candy person to candy person, most having already seen the dinosaurs earlier in the summer. But still, I think it's a fair decision. It's like when people complained about Dinosaurs Alive's very existence - if you pay the exact same amount of money you paid last year, you will get the exact same experience you got last year. If you want to pay a little extra for a "premium" experience, then you may choose to do so. That is the financial setup of Kings Island and many other amusement parks, like it or not. Pay more, get more. GYK, who paid $70 to get into Mickey's Halloween Party this October at the place where our new company president used to work...

Not touchin' that one.

Waste your day?! Some of us prefer Backlot Stunt Coaster to most any other roller coaster at Kings Island amusement park! Can't say the same of Kings Dominion, though...

I'm sure that the folks who implemented Fast Lane are removed enough from the park's day-to-day operations that there wouldn't even be a blip on the radar if a group decided to do this. 36 people x $30 per person, the park has made over a thousand dollars, and I'm sure that would count for more than they'd like to acknowledge, and would probably trump a low-capacity ride being "overthrown" for a period of time. Also, every "Fast Lane" type system I've encountered always notes that the pass does not guarantee immediate access or priority boarding, but only that you will wait in a different line that, for all intents and purposes, should be shorter than the regular line. If that same fine print is involved in Kings Island's system (which it should be, but considering how haphazard it's felt since its late implementation...), then it's not as though the ride operators have no choice and must ignore the "regular" guests until the Fast Lane ones are through. In every system I've seen, a few of each queue line are put on each time, sometimes 50/50, sometimes 25/75, sometimes 75/25.

Best Amusement Park: Kennywood Best Theme Park: Universal's Islands of Adventure Best Value Park: Best Steel Coaster: 1. The Revenge of the Mummy (Universal Studios Florida) 2. Batman: The Ride (Great America) 3. Dueling Dragons 4. Flight of Fear (Kings Island) 5. Maverick (Front seat) Best Flatride: The Crypt (Kings Dominion) Best "New" Ride: Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit Best New Ride: Cheetah Hunt Best Park Food: Disney's Hollywood Studios Most Beautiful Park: Busch Gardens Williamsburg Best Water Ride: Pirates of the Caribbean (Disneyland) Best Dark Ride: The Curse of DarKastle Best Waterpark: Discovery Cove? Best Park Staff: Epcot Best Kids Area: Seuss Landing (Universal's Islands of Adventure) Best Park Show: Busch Gardens Williamsburg Cleanest Park: Discovery Cove Best Halloween Event: Halloween Horror Nights (Universal Orlando)

But here's my question - someone mentioned that Disney is infamous for tweaking their rides prior to opening such that they are technically the ones who create the recommendations for the rides and claim it is their original creation legally. Isn't that applicable in Son of Beast's case? I have heard conflicting reports that RCCA is the manufacturer, where other sources say Paramount Parks is. Is that the same as the Disney case, where technically Paramount Parks was the legal manufacturer? And if so, wouldn't that make Cedar Fair the official power now? I genuinely don't know; I'm asking. Is it different in Ohio because of that mandate about manufacturer's recommendations, such that no ride is altered outside of the recommendations laid down by its original builder, and thus never legally changes ownership? I'm confusing myself now...

Oh yeah! And to glowing reviews!

It's alllllll in theory my friend: both their use in launch systems and their use on roller coasters in the U.S.

I doubt it was a coincidence... And didn't the trains need widened to fit the ride's wide gauge? That can't have been easy or cheap. But since the ride and trains were heavily modified prior to the re-opening, I imagine everyone had chosen every aspect of the ride carefully. Especially Cedar Fair. They don't usually just throw caution to the wind and try new things without having considered it, so I doubt they haphazardly chose whatever was available.

More than once, I watched someone step off The Villain and vomit. Now you know there has to be quite a bit of jostling on a wooden coaster to induce that. It was a very strange roller coaster... Didn't it have a section of retro-style trick track that was later removed or something? It was sort of a mess. A nice concept, and a worthwhile effort by Six Flags, but it just never worked out.

I thought this was timely and interesting: Shane's Amusement Attic (over at Theme Park Review) has uncovered some images from when Paramount intended to build their own "CityWalk" style entertainment district within Great America called "Front Gate." In a way, it looks like a prototype California Adventure - famous landmarks and districts represented that all create a very shopping / entertainment friendly area that leads up to the park's front gate. It's too bad this never came to be, but in retrospect, perhaps it's a good thing. Even Kings Island, as the flagship park, couldn't have supported or justified something like this when you really think about it, so what a waste it would've been at Great America.

http://www.jmaventuresllc.com/ At this price, I may have preferred to see its rides removed and divided among the remaining parks. Especially given that I'm tremendously jealous that that $70 million will go toward debt reduction and not park improvement (which I realize is extremely unfair of me, haha!). Still sad to see it go - and now, one must wonder what JMA plans. Destination entertainment seems to be their "thing," but are they a large enough corporation to fight the ongoing battle to keep Great America afloat? Do they intend to keep it open as an amusement park when their portfolio is entirely resort hotels, homes, and restaurants? And that begs the question - what would happen to the ride names? Can they possibly get any more generic than Flight Deck, or Drop Tower, or Vortex? Passes are already on sale for Great America for the 2012 season, but that doesn't mean much... So strange to think that two parks could begin so similarly under Marriott, then diverge - one under Six Flags, and one under Kings Entertainment, Paramount Parks, Cedar Fair, and now, perhaps JMA Ventures. P.S. According to Wikipedia (I know, I know), in 1983, the park was valued at $1 million per acre (it's a 100-acre property) with the city paying $93 million just for 80 acres of it... Again, that was 1983.

If I recall correctly, Timberliner trains are "launch-friendly," so anything's possible!

And that is the logic by which the awards are chosen (and probably one of the reasons their validity is so contested). Take Cedar Point... It is crowned the "best amusement park on Earth" yet again. But by the Golden Ticket Awards' own admission, Cedar Point does NOT have the best new ride of 2011, the best entertainment of 2011, the friendliest employees of 2011, the cleanest park of 2011, the best dining of 2011, or the best landscaping of 2011. In fact, the ONLY category it wins in is "best amusement park." Now, isn't that counter-intuitive? Shouldn't the "best amusement park in the world" sweep those categories at best, or come out on top of at least at few at worst? But it doesn't... It does not have the best new ride, the best dining, the best entertainment... but still ends up as the best amusement park. Again, the ONLY thing is has is more roller coasters. By Amusement Today's logic, that is enough to crown it the best amusement park. And so, by extension, yes: Kings Island's Planet Snoopy is the best kid's area simply in terms of it having more kid's coasters and more kid's rides than anywhere else. That appears to be their logic. But what I'm asking is, in practice, does Planet Snoopy beat any of the half-dozen Fantasylands, Seuss Landing, Mermaid Lagoon at DisneySea, Flik's Fun Fair...? I mean, really... Top five? Absolutely. Top three? I'd say so. But the best?

Yep. And how many awards did Six Flags win? And did Cedar Fair's full page spread in last years Amusement Today Golden Ticket issue assist them at all this year? I didn't see any full page ads sponsored by Disney, and as coincidence would have it, their parks didn't seem to win much of anything despite universal recognition and acclaim... Hmmm... Speaking of universal...

Kings Island's area is indeed lovely, and has lots and lots of rides for kids. But better than Fantasyland at Disneyland? Better than Seuss Landing at Universal's Islands of Adventure? According to this publication, apparently it is. Who can say?

Right. It was re-tracked in steel. So it's a steel coaster. "Hybrid" is really just a classification that arose from human's longing to classify things. The track is either steel or wooden, and that's all that matters from the point of view in consideration. Adventure Express is a steel coaster, period. Voyage is a wooden coaster. And the New Texas Giant is steel. Though the supports holding up Son of Beast's loop were steel, the track was made of wood, so it was a wooden coaster with a loop. That's not to say a "hybrid" structure can't influence the ride experience, because I imagine Son of Beast would've been much sturdier (and almost certainly safer) had it been supported by steel. But again, from the point of view in question, only the track composition matters.

Even if some online community could muster up 10,000 signatures, would each of those 10,000 people promise to come to the park and buy tickets and food if anything really were done? Otherwise, what use is it? And let's also remember: while customers are fantastic, they're not the only top priority. If a viral marketing campaign managed to get 100,000 signatures to re-open Son of Beast, it still wouldn't pay for even a cent of the reconstruction necessary just to get the thing operating safely, and that money is important. Plus, how many of us here have already bought or will buy our 2012 season passes whether or not Kings Island speaks a single word about Son of Beast? Most of us have or will, and that speaks volumes to the park. Petitions rarely work in my experience, if only because anyone who actually feels committed to something does something about it. A petition to end hunger America? Seriously? In the same vein as that "you've already bought a pass regardless" notion, they know that Son of Beast can't be that important to you if you've already paid for the entirety of next season without it. You buying park tickets says much more than your "electronic signature" via liking a Facebook page.

Plus it was brought back half-heartedly as a last ditch attempt to make the parks appear like they could function as year-round parks steeped in tradition and family-friendly activities. It also happens that the year it was brought back was one of the coldest in years, leading to miserable conditions. When it's all said and done, I personally believe that modern Kings Island simply can't support such an event. For example, Busch Gardens' Christmastown event utilizes its incredible cultural setting and operates their dark rides and a roller coaster or two. Kings Island does not currently have the themeing or setting to make a Christmas event immersive, and is too far North to operate its roller coasters during a typical Ohio winter. Plus, given the company that runs the park, everything would be an up-charge. How much would a hot chocolate cost? How much to rent a pair of skates? Really think about that.

McSalsa, I especially like your use of quotation marks to seemingly indicate legitimacy. Sources say it is "very rough" and "boring." Even Wikipedia editors would ask, "Who says this? Where?" It almost appears that you've paraphrased your own opinions and what you've heard and presented it as a general consensus... And mccarthysnerd, your VERY reliable source may have let you down. One of the things to remember is that seasonal employees (ride operators, food workers, path sweepers, etc) are not intentionally told what the park's plans are. If you heard it from a ride operator or a "dippin' dots guy," you have not heard the truth. In fact, the ONLY people who have any inkling what Kings Island is up to are those in upper management, and those that upper management trusts - people who would never divulge that information for risk of losing their jobs or connections. All that aside, Kings Island can consider whatever they want. As Terpy said, Gravity Group may not be willing to give Timberliners to Son of Beast no matter what Kings Island is willing to pay, period.

But from a corporate viewpoint, they can't be doing too well if their hours have been severely cut back just to afford them that many more hours of maintenance each night, right? At Disneyland, the longest a fleet ever went without complete replacement was 1987 - 2008, or about 21 years (which is about where Disney World is right now, 1989 - present). I also think there's a big difference since Disneyland's is basically an "attraction" that was later expanded to stop at the still-not-very-far-away Disneyland Hotel, so taking a day off isn't really a big deal. But Disney World's is really quite integral to the resort's operation - if the monorail fails, then every single guest who wants to get in or out of The Magic Kingdom must go by ferry. That's a lot of ferries! Also, it allows guests to unite at the Transportation and Ticket Center and switch very easily between Epcot and Magic Kingdom. Without the monorail, it's all up to the busses (which people have noted, are feeling the sting of higher gas prices). I think that the excessive downtime really shows that Disney World's fleet will need replaced sooner rather than later, and as Screamscape noted, an order would need to be placed a few years ahead of time, so that even if an entirely new fleet were ordered today, it probably wouldn't be in full public operation for a good while, right? So with that in mind, I hope they have some backup plans... There's 1980s technology powering a multi-billion-dollar resort's transportation system. Weird.

Steel Phantom's Revenge? And to many, the first incarnation of that ride was so uncomfortable that it's semi-demolition and "revenge" seemed like it might be even worse! And now...

But how far ahead of time are these things decided? For example, do you think Cedar Fair contacts B&M in June and has coaster pieces on-site by September? Or are these things decided long beforehand?