bkroz

Well, I guess they're fast, it's just you don't move for about 10 minutes until they load the next people on. Reminds me of the early days of Tomb Raider: The Ride. People are used to the constantly filtering in and squeezing into queue lines for roller coasters. On Tomb Raider / WindSeeker, the ride takes a huge group of people at once, then pretty much stops for 5 - 10 minutes. Of course, when you can't actually see the ride, that gives the impression that something has happened and that the ride has closed. But I think these rides have a very typical throughput just like roller coasters. The line just moves much differently.

"Where Else?" and "The Fun and Only" have been the park's tag-lines for the last year or two. During the Paramount Era they were "The Best of Hollywood Entertainment, Now Playing" and "Where the Magic of the Movies Meets the Thrills of a Lifetime."

Not to mention, built-on-site wooden coasters are, by their very nature, flawed. There are bumps and jolts from the track, as is it measured and constructed by hand. Intamin pre-fabricated wooden coasters are, in a sense, very technological. They're precisely cut elsewhere with the aid of advanced technology (or such is my understanding) and snap together like Legos (which you can see in the above provided picture). As such, the ride experience is much more along the lines of a steel coaster as far as the "roughness" one expects from a traditional wooden coaster. The rides are, in a very general sense, flawless in a way that "true" wooden roller coasters are not. They are technologically designed and executed, which provides an intense experience far beyond the capabilities of older wooden coasters, but also without the signature elements that have come to define them. I know El Toro uses an elevator lift system just like Millennium Force, thus removing the signature lift hill element even. The POV begins at 1:30, and is worth watching in full to understand the smoothness of transitions and the speed that such roller coasters can move with. Though I certainly don't know (and none of us can) I would wager that if Paramount had waited for the true advent of Intamin's pre-fabricated wooden coaster and been willing to pay for it, Son of Beast could've been constructed very successfully, and might still have a loop to this day. After all, the #2, #3, and #4 spot for the world's tallest, fastest wooden roller coasters all belong to Intamin pre-fabs (with Son of Beast being #1). Plus based on their past work, I would think Intamin of all companies would be willing to give a wooden loop a try. I think that an Intamin pre-fabricated wooden coaster with a loop would actually be VERY deserving of the title "Son of Beast."

For what it's worth to you here, I sent a quick email to the park today and have already gotten a response phone call and had a very nice conversation on the topic with a guest relations agent who seemed very cooperative. She informed me that my message had already been forwarded to a few departments.

This, I think, is the most important of all. This is exactly what's happening when people trumpet about Holiday World's free soft drinks or Disney's free Fastpass. But is it really free? Of course not. When you pay $85/day at Walt Disney World theme parks, you are paying an additional however-much over the real admission price for access to that system, which requires computers, paper, attendants, additional queue lines, etc. And people say, "if Holiday World can have free soft drinks, why can't Kings Island?" Of course I don't know the ins-and-outs of that agreement, but how much might a ticket to a mid-sized, stand-alone park like Holiday World cost if it didn't offer free soft drinks, sunscreen, etc.? But Holiday World's one-day ticket and two-day ticket are more expensive than their Kings Island counterparts, and a season pass to that one park is only $10.00 shy of the price of a Cedar Fair Platinum Pass. I would think that it's safe to say that the price of parking and beverages (of which some will have five, some will have none) are scaffolded into the price of admission. And yet, we do think, "FREE SOFT DRINKS?! FREE PARKING?! WOW, WHAT A VALUE." Offering one free photo at Kings Island would make people feel like they were getting a great deal, and saying, "Would you like to add a 4x6 for just $5.00 more?" would be a fantastic springboard for sales.

Yes. It's embarassing when bringing first timers to the park that that is their first experience. I imagine the families who are completely taken aback by being cornered by these photographers. And as soon as you say "No, thanks," they've already re-started the spiel and are headed toward someone else. I agree that it is not the fault of the photographers themselves, as there is clearly an incentive program as you said. But goodness, it's out of control. Whenever one of them pesters me for a photo or someone at a game booth awkwardly speaks directly at me and my friends and literally begs us to play, it's really sad. I just think to myself, is there anyone who hears them go, 'Hey you, do you want me to guess your weight?' who then thinks to themselves, 'You know what...? Yeah... Yeah, I think I do. Thanks for offering!' It seems simple - if someone shows interest in having a group photo taken or if someone looks on the fence about playing a game, then sure, be warm and friendly and invite them in and offer to take the photo for them. But to be aggressive about it and try to guilt / force people into it? There's a problem higher up if the employees must resort to that - it's not just a friendly competition among coworkers.

I'm happy to see that you speculate that The Crypt, FOF, WindSeeker, etc. will become early evidence of the future... While the idea of the new CEO excites me, I will absolutely hate myself if I convince myself that all of the themed rides are going to be rehabbed and rejuvinated just because of his former ties with Disney. While I'd hope that's the case, I know I shouldn't expect it, especially since his position is so softy in this microcosm and he may be far removed from individual rides in need of help. And I know that when you say early evidence of the future, you don't necessarily mean that the rides will be rehabbed either...

Sure, Holiday World does things for free... Yeah... Free... Just like Disney's Fastpass.... Now complimentary with the purchase of each $85.00 + tax park ticket!

WOWOWOWOWOW. Eh hem. This is spectacular, and exactly what so many of us were talking about even two and three years ago - using what's already there. Of course water would be nice, even if the only way it can exist is gently circulating through the pool with no fountains or mist. But to see something as obvious as light fixtures going unused is practically criminal on a ride that has such potential thematically. And while I don't care much to bring it up in the new CEO thread, let's hope that his past work in bringing Disneyland Resort back to life (and instigating some major changes at Disney's California Adventure) will help him make decisions about The Crypt. Sure, one ride at one park in one region is totally a microscopic issue for him in the scheme of things, but if he had any inkling of what the ride used to be, and how it is easily the best themed ride in Ohio and perhaps in the entire Cedar Fair chain, he might act on that locked up potential and do some real good. I have said before - my ideal ideal ideal situation would be to place a suspended top spin exactly like Kings Dominion's (with rockwork, waterfalls, etc included) and blend it into the already-existing scene. I literally close my eyes and imagine boarding the ride with nothing but loading lights, hearing waterfalls splashing all around... Then, as the music and lights turn on, you can see the pools and rocks on all sides, blending seamlessly into the volcano stretching up the back wall and the goddess in front of you. It would truly be incredible. The theme, music, thrill of Dominion's, with our darkness, goddess, lighting, build-up, and atmosphere. Now THAT would be a ride worth waiting for!

Right, maybe $20 bucks for another punch card. That's $5 per additional photo, which I think is fair if you've already pledged an allegiance to the park by showing that you're purchasing plenty of photos.

The flash drive holds four photos? That's either an INCREDIBLY small flash drive or some INCREDIBLY large pictures... Wow.

Something high capacity? We certainly need something with an appropriate throughput for a medium-sized Midwest amusement park, but I don't think there's any need to install any more "giant" rides or anything. After all, do you wait longer than 15 minutes for any ride on a week day? Meanwhile, at Cedar Point, you're looking at at least an hour for three or four of the attractions... I wouldn't say there's a desperate need for 2000 pph rides. But God, I'd love to see something by Intamin. A mega-lite or a blitz coaster (which is what Maverick and iSpeed are, I believe) would be awesome, but I'd want one that's a little longer like Maverick and has a trick or two up its sleeve (to me, the hidden second launch truly makes the ride). But yeah, Kings Island now has a signature steel coaster with Diamondback, but I think it needs another great one to really earn it a spot in the list of best amusement parks. TPR said a con of Kings Island is that there are many coasters, but few stand-out ones. I think that's true really... And to have one smooth, airtime B&M coaster and another quick, agile Intamin accelerator would really round us out nicely and give us some really great coasters (Diamondback, new coaster, Flight of Fear, Beast, Racer...) Especially with the new CEO at the helm, my imagination runs wild with how well a ride like Maverick could be themed at Kings Island, racing through the forest, dodging trees and maybe even launching around a pond like Maverick does...

I don't understand why there aren't hydraulic stabilizers on both the front and back of each arm. Why does the design allow for forwards/backwards sway at all? It isn't even like the ride experience depends on it even a little bit. If the arms were completely and utterly stabilized and could not move front to back, nothing would be different except that the seats wouldn't sway when entering and exiting (which is good) and there would be no in-air collisions due to wind (which is good). Perhaps I'm missing something.

Mondial's WindSeeker model was allegedly chosen over Funtime's StarFlyer in part because the former's metal arms allow the ride to operate in far windier conditions that the chain-supported seats of a StarFlyer. A 300 foot StarFlyer on the island of Cedar Point would probably open for an hour or two two each day. And it makes sense - with the hydraulic parts added, the seats on WindSeeker are (theoretically) stabilized and safe to operate in low wind, whereas the StarFlyer's seats hanging from chains would probably be swinging right into eachother. Imagine if our own Zephyr yo-yo swing ride was raised to 300 feet in the air. Ouch. I'm not sure if you've actually analyzed the various wind conditions that StarFlyers have successfully operated in vs. the conditions for WindSeekers, but have you also factored in that the WindSeekers are twice as tall? And that makes a massive difference.

^^ Put another way, I'd rather have three medics and not need them, than to need three medics and not have them!

Dollywood also has a much smaller off-season. It's open August, September, October, November, and December with only a few days off here and there. They also usually open the last weeks of March, so they have a 3 month off-season compared to Kings Island's 5-6 month. Not sure if that has anything to do with their construction timetable, but I'd imagine it does... I would think they'd want to get as much done as they could earlier in the year so they could finish up early and put the finishing touches in the late winter.

Right... After all, we've gotten two coasters without a 'real' fix for Son of Beast already... And you may have answered your own question, sccard01.. If the price to take yet another chance on Son of Beast is comparable to the price to add a nice Intamin Accelerator coaster a la Maverick... Which would you choose? Or more importantly, which would the public choose? Which would be more marketable and ultimately lead to the best financial standings for the park? I can't honestly say. I personally think that a worthwhile change to Son of Beast (major layout alteration, Iron Horse track, etc) would be a big draw. But I can't say for sure if it's the best course of action for the park. We can only have confidence that research will be done prior to a decision being made to ensure that the park knows what is best.

My favorite was when someone says "Does it drop?" and their friends say, "Yeah, it does, but slowly." Uh... That's called lowering to the ground. ^^^ Also, the ride at Cedar Point went all the way to the very top of the tower. Perhaps Kings Island's is / was running a different program for its first few days, because I assume the capability to lift all the way to the top is there.

You haven't ridden it recently have you? The first 3 cars basically fly past the brakes, the brakes slow down the last 2 cars and tries to stop, but it doesn't stop the train anymore. At least that's how it was 2 weeks ago. Really helps the pacing, IMO. At Kings Dominion, I agree. At Kings Island, the train still comes to a near-complete stop each time I've been on it this season... I don't think it ever came to a complete stop necessarily, but pretty darn close.

And just as Kings Dominionites about their Flight of Fear queue. They probably couldn't tell you much since it had been so long since they'd seen it...

And don't forget, most of the "major" modifications we've brainstormed for Son of Beast would require new trains, anyway... At the most, we've envisioned an Iron Horse steel coaster, and at the least we've imagined Timberliners or some new train style. Both ends of that spectrum leave the current trains useless, anyway...

As far as general improvement, I have to say Flight of Fear. The ride itself is a really thrilling, fun attraction. But if it were removed from the building and placed outdoors like at any Six Flags park or at Cedar Point, it would certainly not be as worthwhile for me and possibly many others. That's why I think it would be nice to see the queue rehabbed. As was mentioned, the interior lights of the saucer, the theatrical lighting in the hanger, the soundtrack being louder while on the ride (and if they're feeling really ambitious - which I can almost guarantee they're not - maybe even on-ride audio with the synchronized music score that already plays). There are also small details. Like, I think one of the best things about the queue was the really deep, low bass that was emitted from the saucer and just sort of vibrated the whole room. It wasn't loud or anything. It just sounded like a spaceship idling. The mirrors could also be cleaned. My friends (not enthusiasts) get so excited telling first-timers about that "trick" and it has become less than effective the last few years. Maybe if such a rehab ever occurred, the computers in the hanger could also be upgraded. Some nice Mac screens displaying EKGs and alien anatomy sketches would really make it look more realistic. And yeah, the ride's a little bumpy. Not sure what could be done with that. I'd also love to find a way to rip out that MCBR, or at least restore the laser "scanning of the train" effect that people have mentioned that allegedly took place there. On-ride audio would also help illustrate that, since people have said that it syncs up to the laser scanning effect. Of course, all that being said, Disaster Transport now has a two foot tall stuffed Minion from "Despicable Me" at the top of its lift and not a single light on inside the ride (even last season, the space craft and the final Mars rover scene were lit...) so I don't know that I have a ton of hope for Cedar Fair to re-invigorate a ride thematically.

Kings Island was a flagship park for a very long time, and no one seemed to find favoritism unfair back then... Now it is part of a larger group of parks, and not only is it not the flagship, but it's mere hours from the park that holds that title. Things are different now. Sometimes better, sometimes worse. It seems to me that there's no desperate need to build taller, faster, more well-themed rides at Kings Island anymore, because the competition is either owned by the same group, or is closed. But hasn't Kings Island still been treated well? Haven't we still been "favored" over pretty much every other park except Cedar Point? And we've also had moments where we've gotten more than they have. Kings Island is different from Cedar Point, and I don't think half of their rides would fit in our park anyway. Basically, everything is working out for everyone. I don't see a problem being second or third in line (if that's even what we are).

In my experience, the bugs were only present at night. But like I said, it's a seasonal issue for Cedar Point. We also rode Maverick in the dark, and had our hands over our faces the entire time (which, of course, makes for a REALLY bad ride on Maverick). Whoever decided to light up the canyon walls at night needs to have their head examined. The view is spectacular during the day, and it's truly a completely different experience at night - the water is absolutely pitch black, so you can't even tell it's a body of water. We also managed to somehow get on the next-to-the-last ride of the night, which took place during the finale of the American Portrait show, so there were fireworks going off. A really nice experience! P.S. According to a Maverick team member, the effect lights in the tunnel will never be on again, as they "interfered with the sensors" on the LSMs. As someone who is not intimately familiar with the ride or the mechanical workings of it, I can't say whether or not that is a realistic reason. I just know a lot of people here were questioning it earlier, and that is the answer I was given.

Happy to say I rode Cedar Point's WindSeeker this evening twice (with about a ten minute wait each time). I know you might think I'm saying this just because it's "my sort of thing," but the music and lights truly do make the ride. It's almost unreal to be honest. As I first rose up the tower, I felt no sensation of movement and instead just saw everything around me lowering down. It was very trippy (and I experienced it the second time, too). As mentioned, the audio is with the gondola and not projected from the ground, so it follows you up to the top where those in line can no longer hear it. I heard five different songs waiting in line. I do not know if Kings Island's playlist will be the same as Cedar Point's. The only reason I would speculate that they might be different is because one of the song's featured on Cedar Point's was "Flight of the Valkyries" (which currently plays on our Backlot Stunt Coaster), and another was the theme from Star Trek: The Next Generation (which used to play on International Street and was removed in favor of summery-bee-bop jams). There were two songs from Harry Potter that played as well, with Hedwig's song being the one featured in the video circulating the web and the one that I rode to the first time. I truly would rate the WindSeeker experience very, very highly. I only wish that the cycle lasted a little longer - even an extra rotation or two - but I understand how adding that would seriously decrease hourly or daily capacity. The main problem with Cedar Point's (which it shares with many of that park's rides) is the bug problem. It's located right on the water, which is bad. But even beyond that, it is a giant rainbow light. The bugs literally ascend with the gondola and create a cloud just as the ride begins to rotate. Luckily, you rise above their flight level for the duration of the ride, but descend right back into a cloud of them as the ride ends. I'm not sure how that could be fixed, really. It's an unfortunate side effect of Lake Erie. I'm writing up an official review with photos and a video for themeparktourist.com, so if that review is posted before Kings Island's opens (which I should hope isn't the case!) I'll be sure to link to it so you can read more.