What exactly IS Massacre Manor

[Leonard Pickel]

Mr. Pickel, if you don't mind me asking, have you ever been to KI's fearfest/Halloween Haunt events in the past or this previous year? If so, do you feel that the more "mature" direction was a step in the right direction? Has this worked elsewhere in the industry?

I go by Leonard!

The bulk age group for a haunted event is 13-30 and they want you to scare the crap out of them. It is the same type of people who ride coasters, which is as close as you can come to dying in a plane crash and live to tell about it. People who attend haunts want to be scared!

A child under 10 cannot separate reality from fantasy, and most cannot make it past the scary music, no matter what is inside the attraction. Few events geared for children make any money. Even Disney’s Not so Scary Halloween is squashed in October by Universal Studio’s Halloween Horror Nights in attendance. It is the only event that Disney does not rule.

I am not sure if I have been to KI for FearFest, but most of the Paramount/Six Flags level parks, do not seem to grasp the need to hire someone who knows what they are doing to design the haunts. Their mentality is "It is only a haunted house, how hard can it be?" They tend to design attractive sets (at least in some cases) but the scare is an after thought.

So many people that design haunts, design them from the outside in. They decide what kind of room it will be, what it will look like, and what props will be in it, and then when everything is set and immovable, they tell and actor to stand in this space and be scary. This puts huge amount of acting responsibility on the actor to make the haunt effective.

I “bake my cake” from the inside out. First I decide what the scare will be. I design in where the actor will come from and where he will go after the startle. Then I decide what kind of room it will be by a storyline. I add in the props so people know what kind of room it is and to facilitate the scare. The lighting, sound, everything is to set up and intensify the scare.

That is why I can back off from the level of detail and still make a haunt frighteningly effective. Detail can always be added as the budget allows. (One point that I should have added in the "difference" discussion in my earlier post is that there is a huge difference between a haunt that can stay in the same place every year and one that has to be taken down and put back up. In a permanent location, you can add years and years of detail and you end up with photos like above. Most of the shows I design for clients are temporary, and the storage alone for that much detail can put you out of business.)

The other problem haunts have is capacity, or throughput as it is called in the industry. A park haunt has to be designed to operate on 700 or more people per hour and still be effective. If not, the lines get out of hand and people will riot! No matter how great your haunt is, if people have to wait 4 hours in line to get in, they will not be happy.

If you have not designed something for this kind of capacity before, it is not an easy task. Over the years I have experimented with a few things that can maximize throughput and still deliver an effective experience. It is these tricks and other lessons learned from 30 years of mistakes and successes that I sell to my clients.

Leonard

[hauntguy]

"...I am not sure if I have been to KI for FearFest, but most of the Paramount/Six Flags level parks, do not seem to grasp the need to hire someone who knows what they are doing to design the haunts. Their mentality is "It is only a haunted house, how hard can it be?" They tend to design attractive sets (at least in some cases) but the scare is an after thought...."

^ I will agree with that! The people they have to set-up and repair each haunt is REALLY GOOD! But the people that "manage" the haunts are not as good. You stated that an actor put into a large room and told to just "be scary", that happened ALOT at KI. If you took ALL the house managers from KI you'd probably only have 1 or 2, maybe 3, that have worked in a pro haunt outside of KI. The rest are just people that have worked there way into the role and really doesn't know how to be scary or train an actor on how to be scary. -Hauntguy

[KIBeast]

Tyler, you do not seem to be listening! I told you not to believe everything you read on the web.

The difference between the Darkness photos and ScreamWorks photos is BUDGET! One of those rooms in the Darkness cost more than the whole set up at ScreamWorks. If I had to wait for those kinds of clients to build a haunt, I would have to find another way to make a living. And who says detail is scary? Many patrons spend the entire experience with their eyes closed or in the back of their boy friends shirt and never see a single detail.

The photo comments you are referring to were made by someone who NEVER saw the haunt in operation and has no idea what he was walking through! Some of the photos, the ones with the black walls were in an attraction style called a Pitch Black. The Haunt is in total darkness with glow paint illusions and ninja like actors used to frighten the patrons. That is why there was no detail, and some of the props were not factory painted... they glowed in the dark. A pitch black is great on the budget because it is cheap to build, but it very effective on the fright level. When Netherworld did a pitch black one year, people liked it better than their full detail haunt, one of the highest detailed in the country. Makes you think, huh!

Secondly, as a consultant, all I can do is reccommend to my client what he should do. I told them not to sell the haunts at auction, because you will not get what they were worth. But the client can do what they want, which unfortunately they did. They had 20,000 people go through the event to rave reviews. Sorry if you do not like the styles of the haunts, but the event was a success. Haunting turned out to be just too much work for the owners, so they just wanted out quickly. Loss or no loss/

You are mistaken about the Pirate haunt, which WAS designed by me. The other haunts were used attractions that I redesigned and updated. It is none of your business what I was paid for my services, but I wonder how you or anyone would have private information like that. The answer being no one!

What would make you think Travel or Discovery Channel knows anything about haunts? I was on the first of these programs last year, and the choose haunts that were in the 3 cities that they had crews going to for other shoots. It had nothing to do with quality of the haunts, it had to do with budget.

Who are you, America’s haunts, me, or anyone to say what the best haunts are? A haunt is like a piece of art. Who is to say and impressionist's work is not as good as a abstract, or a sculpture. I see LOTS of haunts in October, and I have MY personal favorites, but I would never be so pompous as to say this or that haunt is the best in the country. The TV show is hunting for ratings. so to make people watch, they say The Best in the Country! It is called MARKETING! (I hope you are taking some business classes at college.)

Some of those haunts were VERY worthy of being listed in the top 10, but the way you got listed on America haunts, was to pay $5,000. There was no quality criteria.

Sorry to bust your bubble.

I am not sure what you want to discuss of board Tyler. You do not seem to grasp what I am trying to explain to you. I doubt either of us will change the other's mind, but my phone number is all over the net 972-951-5100.

Leonard

PS. I guess I should apologize to the board for stirring up this discussion. What I have tried to do is not only defend myself against empty attacks, but offer some insight into the haunt industry that I hope was interesting reading. Tyler and I will never agree on the items above, but I did my best to keep the discussion civil and professional, and to show Tyler the respect everyone on this board deserves.

Leonard,

Don't apologize. I was not aware of all of the inside things that go on about haunts, setting them up, the no 90 degree angles and everything else. It was very insightful. The one thing I won't do is comment on the banter between you and Hauntguy. I don't know enough myself to even judge the situation. From what you have said, the awards given out seem to be very similar to another golden type award that is given to parks every year. If this is true, then they are as big a farce as the GT awards.

Believe me, I've been in a few "disagreements" with some folks here and I know how you feel about defending yourself. The only problem is (and I don't think it's the case here) that you both wind up looking silly most of the time. I hope you stick around as this is the GREATEST KI community anywhere! The mods are great and some are even distant friends of mine.

[XGatorHead 8904]

You stated that an actor put into a large room and told to just "be scary" happened ALOT at KI.

So many people that design haunts, design them from the outside in. They decide what kind of room it will be, what it will look like, and what props will be in it, and then when everything is set and immovable, they tell and actor to stand in this space and be scary. This puts huge amount of acting responsibility on the actor to make the haunt effective.

When exactly did Leonard say that that happened at KI specifically??? I believe he was speaking generally...

[hauntguy]

Leonard didn't make the connection, but I did; I wasn't speaking for him. But it's what he said that still applies to KI. It's problem with most theme parks and until a park decides to just put a little money into an event, hire REAL haunters builders (Leonard Pickel, Larry Kirchner, etc.etc.) that these events will remain mediocre (or however you spell it). Also, please relook at my post... you kind of "misquoted" me a little bit... no biggie. -Hauntguy