BoddaH1994 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 We all know about the Timberwolf. In my opinion, it's kind of a waste. What's the point of having an amphitheater if you're only going to have about six concerts a year? Now, here's my question: What do YOU think they should use it for? Keep in mind that its seating capacity isn't extremely large, so suggesting that bands play there like Metallica/Rolling Stones/N Sync or whatever is really illogical. Also, keep in mind that while the capacity isn't extremely large, it's still pretty freaking big, so it would also be illogical to have Vibe or Spellbound there. My suggestion would be to have different shows there similar to TR:SS but only have them twice a day. Perhaps one around 1:00 and one around 6:00. If there are fewer shows, they'd be able to have a better show more than likely and having them only twice would bring more people in. I would have a new show every 3 weeks or so to keep it fresh. The show would have to be well-hyped with signs around the park showing how to get to the Timberwolf. The show doesn't necessarily have to be a stunt show, but I think it should be something more than their regular song and dance or cheesy magic shows. Anyway, that's just my opinion. So tell me what you think. -Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SML828 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 It's not very big?? It holds 10,000 people...that seems big to me... What they need to do is revamp the place - new benches...clean up the stage and the whole area in general.... They used to have MANY concerts there each year...I think if they'd clean it up they could do it again... I can't see them having a daily show there (even if it is only once or twice a day)...it takes too many people to run the place, plus they would never come close to filling the space... Just my semi-expert opinions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losing Streak Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Vibe and Pulse each only run twice a day... But they're not Timberwolf material. Number of times a day has nothing to do with it. No show PKI produces could ever draw more than enough people to even fill up the Showplace, much less make a dent in Timberwolf, especially during the week. It takes too many security guards, too many ushers, and the venue is too remote to put a daily show there and expect it to get attended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonLord Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 Timberwolf's 10,000 seats is pretty dang big. You also have to keep in mind that we don't use it just for concerts. We hold the National Chearleading Competitions in Timberwolf, BET does a show every year, it's used as a staging area and meeting area for large groups every now and then, we hold band award ceramonies in it. It's a pretty usefull space in fact. I do agree with the fact that it needs to be rebuilt! We need brand new seats, something far more comfortable, a new stage would be awsome and would draw more concerts because it would be new with all the latests and greatest in techonlogy. Something has to happen with the light and sound stage in the center of the theater. The seats behind it are worthless, and I know we could do better. As of a show in it every day, I dont' like that idea because it would have to be scheduled around the things we host every year. Props and things would have to be moved and stored some where else, special lighting would have to be removed and then put back up. If would use it for some pretty good concerts every year, it would be worth it. As it is now, we have 7 days of concerts this year alone. It could be possible to have more than that, and I'm sure we could get some big names in as well. I mean, Paramount owns the park, it's owned by Viacom, who owns BET, VH1, CMT, and MTV! We should be able to get someone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted July 23, 2003 Author Share Posted July 23, 2003 Trust me, 10,000 isn't very big. I mean, it's big for PKI, but only a little over half of what the US Bank Arena seats of 17,909. 10,000 is big for a Def Lepard concert, but it's way too small for say the Rolling Stones. Of course a daily show there would never fill up the place, but it would accomodate a larger scale show. If they had a daily show there, they'd have to stop booking concerts. -Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SML828 Posted July 23, 2003 Share Posted July 23, 2003 No show PKI produces could ever draw more than enough people to even fill up the Showplace, much less make a dent in Timberwolf, especially during the week. It takes too many security guards, too many ushers, and the venue is too remote to put a daily show there and expect it to get attended. Actually some PKI shows HAVE filled Showplace on a daily basis...Well, at least one that I know of filled it at least a few times per week - it was the summer of 96...'Retro: Repeat The Beat' - that was my FAVORITE show the entire time I spenting ushering @ PKI. I think another thing that made a difference was it was a late afternoon/night show...they need to have at least one of those again...not just the country show and/or karaoke...they need a real sit-down show at night like they used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Welp, from my semi expert opinion,,,, I think there are a lot of factors about this subject that the average park guest or user of this board would not factor in, when coming up with their own use for Timberwolf... One, expense budget vs. what the park gets. A daily show for more than a few weeks would not be realistic... 10,000 seasts in Timberwolf, some days the park only has about 20,000 in the park. To suggest half of the people in the park would a ttend a show at the same time, no matter the show,,,, unrealistic. Two, the number of technicians, ushers, and others to run that type of a thing is also unrealistic. Three, and probably a point I'll make numerous times on this board as I am a new member,,,, putting together and producing a show is expensive, and not an easy thing to do. Where do you find the talent? How do you ge them for a seasonal job? What type of show to do,,,, one type does not make the masses happy. Some like the singing dancing stuff, others the stunt stuff, some would like a more technical based show,,,, some like country music, some like pop, some like heavy metal,,,, while each of those styles of music alienates the audiences who do not like that type... It's easy to critisize, or suggest unrealistic options, but it is impossible to make everyone happy, or have a show that would do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted July 24, 2003 Author Share Posted July 24, 2003 lol...You people seem to like to argue my ideas than to come up with your own. Once again, what do you think they should do with it? Is the small handful of concerts there enough to even justify having it? Should they have some sort of daily show? The question is: What do YOU think? Even if it's isn't entirely realistic. -Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losing Streak Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Welp, from my semi expert opinion,,,, I think there are a lot of factors about this subject that the average park guest or user of this board would not factor in, when coming up with their own use for Timberwolf... One, expense budget vs. what the park gets. A daily show for more than a few weeks would not be realistic... 10,000 seasts in Timberwolf, some days the park only has about 20,000 in the park. To suggest half of the people in the park would a ttend a show at the same time, no matter the show,,,, unrealistic. Two, the number of technicians, ushers, and others to run that type of a thing is also unrealistic. Three, and probably a point I'll make numerous times on this board as I am a new member,,,, putting together and producing a show is expensive, and not an easy thing to do. Where do you find the talent? How do you ge them for a seasonal job? What type of show to do,,,, one type does not make the masses happy. Some like the singing dancing stuff, others the stunt stuff, some would like a more technical based show,,,, some like country music, some like pop, some like heavy metal,,,, while each of those styles of music alienates the audiences who do not like that type... It's easy to critisize, or suggest unrealistic options, but it is impossible to make everyone happy, or have a show that would do that. We don't even hit 20,000 some days. And to compare, just as a baseline, NSYNC sold out quite a few 60,000 seat stadiums a few years back. But most band's crowds could fit in timberwolf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumpin Jack Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I think the park makes a good amount of money with how Timberwolf is set up now. I think changing the contracts of the shows they bring in, so that more acts are possible to bring in, that would be good. I also think that the festivals like Spirit Songs bring the most park guests into the park, so the more of those types of events that they could schedule, the better. Problem comes in with the contracts for the venue I assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusLives Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Get rid of Timberwolf and Congo Falls and expand Top Gun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted July 24, 2003 Author Share Posted July 24, 2003 Get rid of Timberwolf and Congo Falls and expand Top Gun! There's an idea. That would be one BIG son of a gun! (No pun intended ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 Something needs to be clarified here. PKI is not a concert promoter. The groups/acts that play Timberwolf are contracted through an entirely separate concert promoting company called "Jam Productions." PKI cannot, or does not simply bring in any act they want. The industry does not work that way. "Jam" promotes small venue acts across the country, mainly in outdoor amphitheatres. Timberwolf/PKI is simply the venue they use. PKI does take a profit from the ticket sales, but these concerts do not generate much revenue for the park from concert ticket sales themselves. The basic benefit to PKI for holding concerts at Timberwolf is the park admission they receive, and the revenue they generate from having that many more people in the park who are going to buy souvenirs, food etc. One of the biggest hurdles that promoters face now is all artists require a monetary guarantee. Timberwolf IS considered a very small venue. Why, if you want to compare venue size, simply look at Riverbend. Riverbend is the premier outdoor venue in Cincinnati. Popular acts are more than likely going to play there simply because it allows for more potential ticket sales. When a guarantee is placed on a venue, then they are required to dish out the dough no matter how crappy ticket sales are. Also, PKI does not draw a large amount of "typical" concert goers. The bulk of today's concert goers range in age from 18-30 and go not only for the music, but for the social aspect and beer sales. The types of crowd a PKI concert draws is mainly a very young, teenage crowd. Why, that is the reason the bulk of acts that play there are geared at teens. The others that tend to play Timberwolf are, for lack of a better term, "Hasbeens" that can still draw a novel crowd, but cannot fill a large venue. Last I checked, PKI did not allow alcohol at Timberwolf. As unfortunate as this may sound (I am not a proponent of Alcohol) that is a big deterrant. Another thing that factors into all of this is the fact that large venues such as Riverbend are owned by Clear Channel Entertainment. Clear Channel is also a MAJOR promoter of artists. Because they promote the acts AND own the buildings, overhead is low and there are not lots of hands dipping into the pot. If ticket sales are low, then there is no loss because they are not out a monetary guarantee. By comparison, Timberwolf is a small venue, that draws *smaller* named acts. The artists require a large overead to play there, and what is left over gets divided up by the promoter (Jam) and PKI etc. etc. etc. If you go back 20 years, Timberwolf was the only (and Premier) outdoor amphitheatre venue in the area. It was a huge success. But, as the industry changed and grew, and more high profile Promoters began overtaking the industry... venues like Timberwolf lost their steam. Actually, PKI still has a pretty reputable draw. Most parks have discontinued concerts all-together. PKI just limits what they do, in order to not loose their shirts. Obviously, I am sure the park has weighed the options in keeping Timberwolf. But to be honest, I believe that Spirit Song itself is what keeps the venue operational at PKI. That weekend event is one of the single largest Christian festivals in the country. PKI is not about to give that up, even if it means that Timberwolf sits empty 99% of the time. Shaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfreak Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Actually beer is allowed in Timberwolf. As a matter of fact.. I'll be working the beer stand tomorrow for Def Leapard and on sunday for Weird Al. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaggy Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know if it was now or not. It's been years since I have seen a concert at Timberwolf. Actually, the park "dried up" for several years (including Timberwolf) after the Paramount buy-out. I believe it wasn't until the late 1990's that alcohol was re-introduced into the park at all. However don't quote me on alchohol stats.... I am not a big fan. I HATE the taste of beer and don't drink. ;-) Shaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiSK Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 There is another place in Cincinnati where concerts are held. Bogarts. Lots of 'smaller' acts play there (Reel Big Fish, The White Stripes, The Starting Line) however, hundreds, sometimes thousands of people visit these 'lesser known' concert events. I think it would be better if these 'smaller acts' could schedule their summer tours with stops in PKI. Although.. some seating would have to go, as a lot of moshing happens too . I just wish a lot more planning went into this.. its a goldmine that could be tapped no problem. Imagine if people bought season passes JUST for concert events? Thats great money right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 <<I think it would be better if these 'smaller acts' could schedule their summer tours with stops in PKI.>> Actually, that's not a bad idea at all. What they should really do is commit several days out of the season to have all day concert things free with admission. I mean, they should have 10 to 15 underground bands play from like noon until the park closes. Bands like that won't expect much money for such a publicity stunt, and you have to figure that hundreds if not thousands if people would come to see one or two of the bands and spend the rest of the day in the park. I realize that it costs a lot to run the venue, but you have to figure that most people will get bored, or see whatever band(s) they want to and spend the rest of the day in the park. It would generate crazy amounts of revenue from each person, assuming that they're not a park regular. They'd have to pay to park, pay admission, pay for food, we'll assume they'll play some games or whatever, and may even do a pay ride. So long as they book serious bands (not big acts) but ones that are underground, and not unheard of, they can't loose. -Ryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losing Streak Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Those bands you mentioned don't want to play at a venue with seats... They're not the kind of music you sit down and listen to. I saw RBF at Warped in 2002, and just like any other "punk/ska" show I've ever been to, it's so much better to be standing up in front of the stage, with no seats. Hence the reason that Warped brings their own stages to Riverbend, and sets them up in weirder places, and only the smaller acts play on the big stage, under the canopy, which was divided in two. Thats how it was in 2002 anyway. It would be cool though, if KI could get the Warped Tour to come. Except I think it would be in the Picnic Grove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beastfreak Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 It'd be cool if they brought Warped to KI but used an old clearing from the wild animal habitat,... say near Son of Beast. Now that would rock. Hard to get people in and our safely, plus its back areas so I'm sure the park wouldn't like that, but would be awsome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Losing Streak Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 That would be really cool, but if it rained, it would be horrible. Probably canceled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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