bkroz

Estimates. Most large park chains don't release their internal attendance records. For quite a few years, Busch (now SeaWorld Parks) has had nothing but negativity to say about the attendance reported for their parks, calling the figures "wrong across the board."

Haha well thank you kindly! I like to think that I earn my post count around here! And then I think to myself that maybe I should split my posts up into "average sized" posts and see how my count doubles or triples. I just have a lot of opinion and I like to get them out! And I'm glad I have some people on here who actually appreciate hearing my thoughts, incorrect or petty as they may be!

Who else misses Paramount? I do. But it could very well be because that is all I knew. There are those here who absolutely positively despised Paramount (and in most cases, by that they mean CBS) for what they did to ruin Taft's (and later, KECO's) Kings Island. I can really only dream of a Kings Island where Festhaus and Oktoberfest had genuine German food, music, dancers, drinks, and costumes, or where Rivertown was actually a water-themed area (as its name implies), but I grew plenty content with the Kings Island that had a mismatched, but still isolated Rivertown, and a bustling "action backlot" area with the world's tallest, fastest rides of their kind. And when it comes to movie themes, I loved the names. And in most cases, that's all they were were names. "Top Gun" or "Flight Deck" could be called "Dalmation: The Ride" and it wouldn't change the ride experience at all. But there's something to be said for riding a ride that's even losely themed to a movie you've seen. And the truth is, most people have probably never heard of the movie FACE/OFF or Drop Zone, and those who had probably didn't even correlate them to the rides of the same name. They were just really cool names for rides. FACE/OFF on a face-to-face coaster? That's just fun. And so is Drop Zone. It's dramatic, and it's fun to say. And one of the major problems, as I said, with the Cedar Fair "re"-theme (more like a de-theme) is that they didn't bother to come up with new themes. They simply made the old themes generic. What really required our suspended coaster to retain a name relating to airplanes? Are there any concrete references to airplanes on the ride? No. Why couldn't it be painted sea-blue and renamed "Seahawk" or something like that? But instead, they took the idea of "Top Gun" and tried to make a generic name to replace it. What that creates, then, is a customer base who does not say "Oh, this is Seahawk and it feels like you're a bird," but instead says "This used to be Top Gun." That "used to be" is killer. "The Drop Tower" will always be "Drop Zone," because that's what kids learn it as from their brothers and sisters and parents. It's really no different than if Paramount has bought Cedar Fair and renamed Millennium Force into "Cloverfield: The Ride." No matter what the sign said, it would always be "Millennium Force," just as Kings Island will always have "Drop Zone." Sadly, I don't think the other Paramount Parks feel our pain. With the exception of the Backlot Stunt Coaster, none of the other parks had any major de-themes other than "in-name-only" stuff. We were the only ones with Tomb Raider: The Ride. And as I said, that is probably the most shameful thing to happen to a ride that I've ever seen in my short life. Truly. And recall that Paramount gave Cedar Fair the option of continuing to use movie names within the parks. Was it free? Oh no, it was not. For the right price, Cedar Fair probably could have sold it as a "partnership" or "merging" with Paramount, and re-branded all of their parks with Paramount merchandise and movie names (and given a heaping chunk of dough each year to Paramount to retain those rights). They chose not to. They also chose to eliminate most of the higher-ups in charge at the Paramount Parks. And I believe that Paramount Parks Creative (or whatever their equivalent was) was among the first to go without replacement. After all, you try to convince me that a group of people sat down together and Flight Deck was the honest-to-God best they could come up with? I don't buy it.

Yes. 75% of the remaining suspended coasters, I believe... (technically, there is a fifth, but it operates with Vekoma trains), and for whatever reason, is usually left out. The only four traditional suspended coasters left are Ninja (Six Flags Magic Mountain), Flight Deck (Kings Island), Vortex (Canada's Wonderland) and Iron Dragon (Cedar Point). I am one of those people who is not a fan of Arrow's megaloopers. I do not care for Vortex at Kings Island. I know it's got history and uniqueness and all that jazz, but I guess I can't appreciate it the way I should. And on some days, it's "sister" at Kings Dominion fares even worse. Though on my most recent trip, I'd have ridden Anaconda ten times before I'd step on Vortex. I find it painful, boring, and terribly laid out. However, I have to admit - no one makes a mine train like Arrow did. They're a bit rickety, some awful transitions, and (for some, at least) uninspired layouts. But they're nothing if not unique, and I haven't ridden any other manufacturer's version that are comparable (which is both good and bad). It's so strange now that Arrow is "out of the game" and such... From whom will new parks get their mine trains? Vekoma? It's just not the same. Though I don't care for many of their models and certainly wouldn't place them in my top 5 best designers in the field, Arrow had an integral role in the history of roller coasters, produced some incredible rides, and innovated in a lot of ways that have not been beat since.

Absolutely! Though probably not to the extent that Paramount wanted, all of the former Paramount Parks were profitable at their time of purchase*, and the fact that in-park spending was up in those five parks is what Dick Kinzel used to justify the outrageous price tag, claiming that, within only a few seasons, the increased per-caps would start to pay for the parks*. Then, of course, Cedar Fair decided to introduce their legacy park's in-park pricing. And where has in-park spending gone since? South*. But the Paramount Parks were all profitable. I tend to think that, if Cedar Fair came to the point that they needed to sell off half of their parks, most of the Paramount Parks would remain. Parks like Worlds of Fun, Dorney Park, Valleyfair (and, at one time, Geauga Lake) are smaller, locally-oriented parks. That's all they were intended to be, so that's okay. But still, they'd probably be the first to go. Meanwhile, Kings Island & Canada's Wonderland are the #3 and #1 most visited seasonal parks in North America at last notice. And Kings Dominion certainly can't be far behind. And Carowinds is a nicely-sized park with a brand new addition, so why let go of that? And I have maintained from day one that the former Paramount Parks are simply more marketable. Show a commercial with a ride like Backlot Stunt Coaster, Kings Dominion's Crypt, Flight of Fear... That's gonna get people interested. They can ride a tall, fast roller coaster at any number of parks in their region. But one with flames? A spaceship? Water fountains? Music? Kings Dominion's Crypt looks a whole lot better to a consumer than Worlds of Fun's Thunderhawk... Same ride? Yep. But which would you want in a commercial, or brochure, or trip report for your park? How many people stand outside Thunderhawk just to watch it, hear the music, and feel the flames? * Learned from The Interpreter.

It's a shame, too. SeaWorld Parks, Universal and Disney all let you know right off The Bat, that smoking outside of designated smoking areas is not permitted, and anyone seen doing so will immediately be asked to leave the park without refund. The real kicker? They actually follow through with that promise. And guess what? For the first couple weeks, a lot of people get kicked out. After that, fewer and fewer do, because they understand that it's more than a threat, it's real. And soon, people behave. Theme parks, after all, are not public property. There are rules and regulations one agrees to upon entry, and the park has every right to remove guests who disobey their requirements. Rights come with responsibilities. If you want the right to remain in (and enjoy a fun day with friends at) Busch Gardens, your responsibility is to stand in your place in line and wait your turn fairly. If you ignore your responsibility, you lose your right. Simple as that, at most amusement parks. At Kings Island, not so much. GYK, who has never seen a bikini-clad woman walking around Disneyland, though I'm sure there are those who have tried (and do not try anymore).

Tomb Raider: The Ride, even near the end of its days, was still the best themed ride in Midwest, hands down. Some might argue that it was easily the best themed ride at any seasonal amusement park in the United States... It was honestly a gem. We were incredibly, incredibly lucky to have it. Love or hate the ride, it was one of a kind in a good way. I mean, really. Parks would kill for a ride that well done. I'm confident that, has Universal, Busch, or SeaWorld conceived of such a ride, the theme elements wouldn't have been reduced over time, either. The ride would today have much, if not all, of the themeing it had in 2002. Today it is one of a kind in a bad way, and I tend to think that no one at CFHQ experienced the ride in its "glory days." If they had, they would've held onto it, and channeled money into its success. Tomb Raider: The Ride could've been a roadside attraction - one where you pay $5 a pop to ride it. Firehawk could not. Diamondback could not. They lack the immersion, intensity, and experience that made Tomb Raider so successful, so unique, and so special. People would pay $5 for fog, rolling doors, pre-shows, ambient music, a themed queue, and movie props culminating in a mysterious enormous flipping ride filled with water, lights, music, lasers, and fog. But $5 for a single ride on a minute and a half long coaster? Think again. Even today, the ride could support billboards along the highway. "Solved the mystery? What is Tomb Raider: The Ride? Find out, at Kings Island." Not many rides have marketability five or more years after their opening. Tomb Raider would.

You must also remember that Paramount (and its successors) had very different ideas for what the park needed. Paramount's goal was, in essence, to create a park that capitalized on their catalogue of films and television shows. Once Cedar Point's "bigger, taller, faster" plan came to fruition with Millennium Force, it's safe to say that Paramount's Kings Island backed off - their place was in medium-sized, movie-tie-in rides. Because no matter what Cedar Fair tried to do, they simply couldn't do that. Cedar Point's five year plan left no room for those smaller, well-themed rides. You can't have Millennium one year, and a ride like Italian Job: Stunt Track the next and market it in the same way. The powers that were at Paramount Parks knew that, and knew that Kings Island couldn't beat Cedar Point in the "raw thrills" category, so they moved their focus elsewhere: Delirium, Tomb Raider, Scooby Doo & The Haunted Castle, The Italian Job, etc. And couple that with the very different methods of operation between Cedar Fair and Paramount. As I've pointed out, Cedar Fair had (until 2006) a predicatable plan - install a huge new ride, and then coast on its popularity for three or four years, with only minimal upgrades in between. Hence Millennium, Top Thrill Dragster, Maverick with a few smaller coasters and flat rides in between. Paramount (and later, CBS) added something to the parks almost every year. The difference is that many were cloned, and many were smaller, or family-oriented. So we didn't get a huge $22 million steel coaster, followed by three years of nothing (as we're experiencing now). We got Drop Zone and FACE/OFF (1999), Son of Beast (2000), Nickelodeon Central (2001), Tomb Raider: The Ride (2002), Delirium & Scooby Doo (2003), Boomerang Bay re-theme (2004) and Italian Job (2005). With the exception of Son of Beast, most all of those additions were tiny compared to what Cedar Point had to offer, but created a well-rounded park and gave people something to come back for every single year instead of just every three years. And that "three year" thing is sort of what we're experiencing now. We just got Diamondback. This year, we got Planet Snoopy, but remember that that was a necessity, not a cosmetic choice. And even that may seem like a big deal, but visit the other Paramount Parks. I was just at Kings Dominion, and their Planet Snoopy consists of five (yes, five) attractions, one of which is a show. And now that Cedar Fair is juggling twelve parks and not just seven, we don't know how long their periods of "coasting" on new attractions will last... We may not see another major coaster til 2013, or later. So Kings Island may have smaller, more compact, more family-friendly rides. But at one time, that was the park's strength. Now, without its movie themes and with it's lackluster attempt at giving old attractions new identities (instead, simply making them generic versions of their former selves), it appears a weakness. Give it time.

I've visited the park probably four or five times this year, mostly just to relax on the recliners where the waterski stadium used to be. It's a decent park for what it is. Too bad that Phase II never happened... Oddly, near the beginning of the year when the park was really crowded, there were piles and piles and piles of tubes in the corrals near the attractions, and empty ones EVERYWHERE in the lazy river (to the extent that my two friends and I might be the only ones within our stretch of the lazy river, but we were in a "traffic jam" of sorts with empty tubes). The last two times I've gone (which have been Wednesdays) the park has been absolutely dead, and yet, as you said, people have had to hand off tubes at the exit of attractions. I don't know if many tubes have just been damaged as the year has gone on or what...

And of course, Cedar Point may get a certain soon-to-be-disposed-of S&S Power Shot from a certain Disney Park... Creating the world's first septuple Drop Tower. Or, alternatively, they could just have two sets - look at the Antique Cars, after all. Stratosoar = perfect name for an S&S Power Shot? You better believe it...

I mean, the park does need a top spin... And it would evoke an old, boardwalk-y, carnival feel... And it would slightly change the skyline... And I do know where there's one that a certain park would happily give away... Everyone thought Skyhawk would be a Top Spin. It wasn't. And really, Cedar Point's just about the only Cedar Fair park without one.

And Diamondback is not an up and down ride? GYK whose favorite Kings Island coaster on any given day is Flight of Fear, and whose second favorite is Backlot Stunt Coaster. Cloned? Yes. Unique experiences? Absolutely.

Walt Disney had to chose either restrooms or drinking fountains on Disneyland's opening day. He chose the former. Of course, that was the least of his problems on that particular day, which was dubbed by Walt himself as "Black Sunday," was gas leaks, wet pavement, and 100+ degree weather taking up most of his time...

There's such mumbo-jumbo discrepancies over "hyper coasters" that it's ridiculous. They must be between 200' and 299'11" and have a chain lift and an out-and-back layout and no inversions and airtime hills and... blah blah blah. And then, after all that, if you want a coaster that fits those descriptions, you'll have to call B&M and ask for a mega coaster! If you ask me (which, no one did) I say that a hyper coaster is a full circuit coaster over 200 feet. I can't say I agree with the no inversion thing, because I consider Son of Beast a hyper coaster. Now if a ride like Vortex were 200 feet tall, I wouldn't consider it a hyper coaster. A tasteful loop is fine. Six inversions does not a hyper coaster make, in this casual observer's opinion!

Iron Dragon has no buckle like flight deck does. Very weird arrow discrepancies. And remember, they were built nearly half a decade apart. One was overseen by Cedar Fair, one by what amounted to be Paramount Parks by time the trains were on order. That could have something to do with it. I'm only surprised Iron Dragon hasn't since been retrofitted with seat-belts... Strange indeed. GYK, who is just happy that the "if it goes upside down it must have over-the-shoulder restraints" belief is finally coming to an end.

I don't know a whole lot and some of this may be wrong, but I'll do my best: most restraints are mechanically locked (when you hear the "click click click" as it lowers), like those on Flight Deck. A bar raises to stabilize the train and hits a switch on the underside of the train, releasing the mechanism. Older rides might need released manually, which is when the operators walk down the length of the train, stepping on switches to unlock the cars one at a time. In all cases, the ride is not "wirelessly" connected to the operator - he could not hit the wrong switch and open the restraints mid-ride. The restraints are opened by mechanisms embedded into the station. Intamin sort of "took it to the next level," and their rides are hydraulically locked (which is why rides like Millennium, Drop Zone, etc) do not "click," but can be lowered to any desired level instead of the famous "too loose" or "too tight" feeling brought on by other rides. My understanding (which may be incorrect) is that there are two hydraulic systems in the train that keep them locked down, one being a backup system. HUSS rides, I know, are generally locked by mechanical locks, which are opened and closed pneumatically (using air). That's why when The Crypt or Delirium begins, you hear a hiss of air and the restraint "vacuum seals" against you, pushing itself in to hold you back. Restraints are often locked and unlocked during the loading procedure when someone becomes uncomfortable and reports it to a ride operator. On most modern roller coasters, the train cannot and will not leave the station without each and every seat being locked and accounted for. Many trains have lights which turn green when the restraint is locked. If it's not on the train, it's on the operator control panel. That's why it may appear that everything is ready to go, but then someone will need to come and really try to push the restraint down on a larger rider. Although they are in and the restraint is locked, it isn't clicked down "three times" or whatever the manufacturer has chosen. Thus, that seat remains "red" and will not turn green until it's pushed down the mandated amount. On Kings Dominion's "Crypt," the seating lights are on the front right of the gondola, so when the ride operates at night, you see a line of bright green light (which, upon closer inspection, is two rows of 20 green lights). If there's any operator whose parks you needn't fear falling out of rides at, it's Cedar Fair. Keep in mind, their rides are really protected, often superfluously so. Loch Ness Monster at Busch Gardens utilizes the same trains as Vortex, but has only the shoulder restraint, without a seatbelt to hold it down. At first it feels weird, but you quickly come to think "Well, maybe Vortex is just overkill?" Most of Cedar Fair's wooden coasters have seat dividers, seatbelts, and buzz-bars. Backlot Stunt Coaster had seat belts added this year, because Cedar Fair counted the faux MINI Cooper doors as a safety restraints, so when they were removed, they needed to add yet another backup safety system on top of the pre-existing ankle restraints and lap bars! The Crypt's restraints are mechanically locked, then held down by air, and you have to wear a seatbelt... I wouldn't worry too much.

A Theme Park Insider's advice to the new CEO. A good read, and he makes many good points! http://www.themeparkinsider.com/flume/201008/2058/ His fifth piece of advice is perhaps the best:

And even then, if the ride operators and ride manufacturers have done their work properly, it will not unlock.

http://investors.sixflags.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=61629&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=1459818&highlight= So they found a man who does not have any amusement park experience, but rather, experience in rebounding shareholder value and steering through post-bankruptcy proceedings. A good idea if you ask me! It's also quite funny to see these press-releases coming out of Dallas. Speaking of which, Al Weber is staying on as Six Flags' COO... Turns out he, too, is an operations guy...

I cared; I was in fact quite glad that I wasn't in the elevator or up on the top of the tower when it broke! Why not!? So many people here are so convinced that they want to take the stairs on that thing... I know of a few here who would LOVE to be stuck at the top without a working elevator just so they could walk down.

... I would hate to see the day when Kings Island in particular decides they do not need any more wooden coasters because they have The Beast. ... Of course from an enthusiast's point of view we would like as many different coasters as possible, but from a marketable standpoint a new woodie wouldn't make sense. Diamondback was a success because Kings Island has nothing else like it. It's marketed as the biggest ride that Kings Island has ever had... I don't know about you, but I'm going to say that Diamondback has sparked a lot of attention. If they build a new woodie, the question won't be "Hey, how is it?" It's going to be "Is it better than The Beast?" SOB was different because it was 200 feet tall and had a loop. Completely different scenario there. To answer your question, Diamondback doesn't mean that Kings Island shouldn't get anymore steel coasters. It means that we shouldn't get anymore hypers. It doesn't make sense. Why build a signature steel coaster when you're just going to outdo it several years later, especially when you're trying to cater to locals? Again, the question wouldn't be "How is the new ride?" The question would be, "Is the new ride better than Diamondback?" The thing is, your argument is that Diamondback blacks out our capacity to get new steel 200-foot-tall hyper coasters. Sure. Makes sense. We've got one, why get another of the same style. But The Beast blacks out our capacity for any further wooden coasters whatsoever [unless it's a "completely different scenario" because it's 70 feet taller like Son of Beast]? It makes sense that it should make the park re-think getting any extreme, isolated, terrain coasters located in the woods with straightaways and two lift hills and a finale helix. But why does the presence of The Beast eliminate any further capacity for any wooden roller coaster of any style? If Kings Island had gotten Prowler in 2010, it would be a runaway hit, even with its distinct similarities to The Beast. Claiming that The Beast forever fits the bill of any desired wooden coaster in the park is akin to saying we didn't need any other steel coasters after Adventure Express. There are many, many, many variations of wooden coasters just as there are many variations of steel coasters, and no single ride can ever represent all of those variations succinctly. And based on how many of us feel about the recent GCI woodies like Prowler, the answer to "Is it better than The Beast" would most certainly be "Yes," anyway... Your view is very narrow, to say the least.

I was impressed with their quick dispatch. I was there last Friday and the longest I waited was 30 minutes for the front seat of Griffon. This was with the line extending to the entrance while only running two trains. Apollo's Chariot was in the same situation with having to wait for the train to clear a block. Like Griffon, AC was only running two trains. Yes! That's the day I was there! It must've been "corporate is here to see how things are going" day... I can't imagine a park being that perfect for real, one day after another... What an incredible place (a topic for later). Haha.

If I'm understanding you correctly, then there isn't really anything the ride op could have done. In order to kick someone out of line for line jumping there need to be two groups complaining. I will usually give a general ''line jumping is not tolerated'' line to the people that were accused if there was only one person or group accusing them. So company policy is that people can cut in line without punishment as long as no more than one group complains? Either you need to re-read your employee manual, or they need to re-write the employee manual.

Oh, really? If Paramount Parks had waited a few years, then they would've found themselves looking at plans for Son of Beast and considering Intamin's pre-fabricated wooden track, or GCI's super-smooth, super-agile wooden coasters. And I would bet my left arm that Intamin would've jumped at the chance to use it's pre-fabricated wooden roller coaster to create the world's first modern looping woodie. And I would bet my right arm that that ride would've been a success. And both GCI and Intamin could doubtlessly create an incredible looping wooden coaster for the right price. The only thing is that I'm sure both companies are hesistant to do so because of Son of Beast. But will it happen? You better believe it! GCI could make a moderately-sized, out-of-control wooden coaster (a la Prowler) that just so happens to feature a loop. And forget not that Intamin's pre-fabricated wood coasters currently occupy the #2, #3, and #4 spots for the world's tallest, fastest wooden roller coasters, dwarfed only by Son of Beast. Something tells me they would jump at the chance to not only beat Son of Beast's height, but to capture it's loop record. And they could do it. Anyone who's ridden El Toro or Colossus will tell you that much. But the era of the looping wooden roller coaster is not over. Some would say it has not really begun yet. But it is certainly not over.

Not to mention one of the visual draws of the Dive Machine is the splashdown. Been there, done that, though... Plus, Dive Machines work really well at high-capacity parks. The Busch Parks are destination parks (the Tampa one perhaps moreso than the Williamsburg one, but they're still parks that people save up to go to as opposed to parks like Kings Island or Carowinds that cater to locals and the tri-state area for 90% of ticket sales). Griffon has an incredible throughput. I was there last week with the line out the door and through all the turnstyles. The sign said 15 minutes, and they weren't kidding. They dispatch those rides so fast... There were times when the train was ready to go, all checked, and they had to wait as the operator tracked the train already on the course, coming over the loudspeaker and saying "Approaching drop... On holding brakes... Approaching block... Annnnndddddddd ALRIGHT enjoy your ride on the mythical wings of Griffon!" etc because the train was ready to go before it was able to be launched. I feel like, at Kings Island, there would physically be no line after the first week of operation because they're so efficient. One operator to check each row you just walk right down and go "check check check check check" ten times and in one fell swoop you've checked half the train. And as Beetle said, the thing that makes the Dive Machines so appealing is the theme. Whether it's diving through ruined temples full of fog with the story being that you're a shikra (an African bird said to drive straight down through the air to snatch it's prey from the water) or you're amid terraces covered in vines and amid pools of water under the impression that you're witnessing the speed and power of a mythical half-eagle, half-lion... At Kings Island, the same ride might be called "Skyhawk" or something ridiculous and redundant, and it would not be built into the terrain, it would not be themed appropriately and beautifully, and it would almost certainly not have the signature splashdown. So what would be the point? And as I said earlier, how exactly do you market it? "New at Kings Island in 2012 - Skyhawk! The same height, the same speed, the same drop as Diamondback, but steeper and... different!" Might not catch on..