bkroz

But you're right that we cannot say that there wouldn't have been a massive overhaul of all of the parks (unlikely as it is, we do not know). I think that, if no buyer had stepped forward, CBS would eventually have gotten them fixed up (if for nothing else, than to sell to a more esteemed company, like Merlin or Universal). And I'm confident that if the parks had never been transferred to CBS, they would still be incredible alternatives to Cedar Point's midway-style parks, not sisters of it. There was, as someone said in the Flight of Fear discussion, a survey asking about re-theming the Tomb Raider: The Ride preshow. Certainly that meant they had an eye on the ride and understood that something needed done. And Paramount / CBS is considered one of the worst owners in the parks' histories. So why is that? Everyone agrees that the park was clean, the music was appropriate, the landscaping was well-done, the rides added were unique, the park was brought to a much higher level of regard by the public, etc... (even in the CBS days, we would have never seen a discussion "What is the black stuff on the lap bars," and that says something). I guess my thought is, I highly highly doubt that Tomb Raider: The Ride would've ever gotten to a "Crypt" point, with no lights, no music, no effects, no preshow, no story, and no thrill. I have said before and I'll say again that I'd still take 2006's on-its-last-leg-Tomb-Raider over today's Crypt any day of the week. It's a difficult ride to operate, and a tremendous undertaking for a seasonal park. I think they saw the one-time pricetag and sort of wrote on maintenance - like "oh well this ride is elaborate, but all you have to do is press the green button and everything will work the way it's supposed to." Not the case. But shouldn't we still be impressed that we ever had a ride like that, even if for only a week? And I get frustrated because literally any other major owner - SeaWorld Parks, Universal, Merlin, even Parques, would have seen that rides like Tomb Raider and Backlot be fixed up and ultimately, maintained. Some people here praise Cedar Fair for what they've done to return the park's theme to something respectable (a claim they've never been able to substantiate with a single example), but I'm grateful Paramount tried. They gave 100% in their attempt to make a themed seasonal park, but because 50% of their details ended up not working in the long-run, we remember them as bad operators. Cedar Fair takes away the remaining 50% and then maybe gives back 10% a few months later, and we thank them for the 10%? It's not right.

Each time I've ridden Kings Dominion's Drop Zone, an employee walks all the way around the gondola and each rider is required to hold up their hands to be sure they are not holding something (a coin, a rock, etc). Some rules should be obvious, but must be written once it's proven that some human beings are not capable of knowing or respecting the obvious until someone gets hurt.

Right. People can mistrust their memory to a certain extent. Maybe if just the fog was gone from the tunnel, people wouldn't really remember and chalk it up to a poor memory. But Kings Island's guests are not idiots. They won't simply "write off" the ride's lack of fire, water, synchronized music, a splashdown, fog, a helicopter, perfectly themed trains, etc. And they are also not foolish enough to say, "Oh well it used to be owned by a movie studio." Because even the Average Joe recognizes that Paramount cannot and did not copyright flames, or water fountains, or fog machines. And don't even ask me what the right thing is to do when I overhear people in line for The Crypt rave to their friends about lasers, an "evil god," flames, water, music, and five flips (and trust me, those people are just as prevalent if not moreso than those who assure their friends it's a roller coaster or, more recently, a show. I tend to think those who have been saying it's a show are really not so far off). And if someone does speak up to prepare them for the lack of water, lasers, music, etc. they often ask, "Why did they have to get rid of water / lasers / music / fog / atmosphere / story / fun?" to which the informant must honestly reply, "I don't know..." I hadn't been to the park since 2005, and just casually checked the website one day in 2008 to find the name's changed (far from an enthusiast at the time, and clueless about "Cedar Fair," "CBS," or anything of the sort). I made a note to visit the park, sure that nothing would change but the names. I was wrong, even then. And things have only gotten worse. Imagine someone who came to the park today who hadn't been in five years. They'd likely get their friends all pumped up about the roller coaster where you sit in perfect little MINI Coopers and splash into an LA aquaduct. Or the one where you enter an ancient tomb and awaken an angry goddess. Or the ride where you're a stunt actor filming the big "drop" sequence for a new blockbuster movie. Or the one where you're with Scooby Doo, blasting the ghosts alongside your favorite cartoon characters. Or the world's only looping wooden roller coaster. Or a backwards racing coaster. Or the beautiful landscaping of the Paramount Story Gardens and Swan Lake... What do you think they would think of the "new" Kings Island? We've watched as things were removed slowly, one at a time, and chalked them all up to necessity. What if you hadn't visited since 2005, and saw all of the themeing removed in one fell swoop? Would you even recognize the park you loved? Guess what? I didn't...

Yes, Mr. Six is recognized. But consider Kings Island's 2009 Diamondback Ride Warriors commercial. It showcases the new ride and sends out a "challenge" to the teen crew. Then, you get "The Fun & Only" commercial on during the next break that shows Diamondback, yes, but also highlights Planet Snoopy, Boo Blasters, and other family rides. So you get out lots of images of rides, a few statistics, and an announcement of what's new. Mr. Six comes on, and people pay attention because he is an attention-getting figure. However, during the commercial, you saw no roller coaster that was specifically connected to any park; no personalization for the local area; and when you did see kids having fun and dancing along, as Terpy said, it came across wrong to the target audience. Basically, the idea of him grabs the viewer's attention, but then you do not see him riding a ride at your "local" Six Flags. He doesn't announce where discount tickets are available or talk about what's new for 2010. So they basically had an interesting marketing campaign, and then they forgot to actually use it to market their parks. Instead they marketed the idea of their industry - they sold Six Flags, and not Six Flags Over Georgia, Six Flags Great Adventure, etc.

And Joker's Jinx at Six Flags America has no MCBR at all..... I know. I'm simply pointing out some information that some here might find useful. Starting broadly and narrowing it down, we can quickly discover who is mandating the near-complete-stop on the MCBR. Premier does not, since they have clones of the ride that do not even feature a break there. Cedar Fair does not, since they own two clones of the ride, and one of them is not stopping the train. Kings Island, on the other hand...? Or perhaps (random thought, not a hint towards some secret knowledge I have) the state of Ohio has something to do with it? But then again, that would be the case since, in Ohio, parks must follow manufacturer's "recommendations." But certainly, Premier doesn't even "recommend" using the break like that, seeing as how the last three of their five clones weren't even built with a break there, right? What I'm saying is, if Kings Dominion's doesn't stop, and ours is literally an exact copy, and it's pretty far-fetched that Premier would recommend a complete-stop (since the ride did not stop until Paramount's was removed from the park's name), one can reasonably deduce that the one instituting the near-complete-stop is within Kings Island's operation alone, and not all of Cedar Fair's, as we once thought.

The "little things" like that have long been overlooked. Like I've said with The Crypt, I believe Backlot is in a "Do Not Resuscitate" state as of now. In other words, when something breaks, don't fix it. If it's to be fixed at all, leave it for the off-season. When a light goes out, that's just one more light that the ride will operate without. Simple as that. See Kings Dominion's & Canada's Wonderland's for examples - Kings Dominions still has a splashdown (though a very differently programmed one, and it only splashes on one side), but lacks its fire effects. The rotor on their helicopter does not spin, and the helicopter does not move. Wonderland's, often considered the most neglected of the three, has absolutely none of its effects - no fire, no water, helicopter is motionless - and it's been reported here and elsewhere that the ride was reprogrammed to not stop at the helicopter scene, but to slow down and pass quickly through as the gunshot noises play. That, to me, sounds like there's no attempt now and will not be an attempt for some time to fix that. What I guess is annoying to me is that, today I went to Cedar Point and rode the train. In the skeleton town on the train (which has been around for quite a few years now,) there's a firefighter scene where a building's two upper windows are on fire, lit by essentially the same flame effects as Backlot. Next to it, a skeleton is holding a fire-hose and aiming it into the air. The hose really shoots a large stream of water up over a fence and into the Mantis lagoon on the other side. And, Iron Dragon still dives through two clouds of fog / mist, which apparently is okay on that ride, but not okay on Adventure Express, Top Gun, The Crypt, Backlot Stunt Coaster, or any of the other rides that are equipped and already set up to handle such effects. Maverick's water bombs go off (well, three of the four) when the train passes, absolutely drenching the track and passers-by. My friends (not me!) pointed out how strange it is that the train, Maverick, and Iron Dragon get fire & water effects that are, in most of the cases, pointless and add nothing to the ride experience, while the Backlot Stunt Coaster's faltering effects are treated as if they're irreparable. Consider, if Kings Island shut the ride down for one day and had a crew come in and do their thing from morning to late afternoon, the ride could honestly be operating at its "norm" again, with water, flames, helicopter, maybe even a fog machine in the tunnel. I understand that the splashdown and the water effects were superfluous and actually did an amount of damage to the track (which, apparently, doesn't happen to Iron Dragon or Maverick? - just saying), but at least keep the flames and the helicopter running. It's honestly the very least you can do the keep the ride in any presentable shape. Why Cedar Fair thinks its guests are ignorant dummies, I do not know, but when you remove flames, water, in-car music, fog, and themed trains, people notice. And not just "our" kind of people. They will learn that in time.

Where I'd spend my day is confusing. In the Paramount Era, Rivertown easily. Not only for Tomb Raider, but for the shade, the temperature, Swan Lake, the train, and the "vendors." Today, probably International Street. In an ideal world, Coney Mall at night, because given a limitless budget for upkeep (and removing the microphones from the game operators), it would be charming, ageless, and enchanting, the way it used to be. But as for the three rides I'd ride (preparing for the torches and pitchforks): 1. Flight of Fear 2. Backlot Stunt Coaster 3. The Crypt (4). Boo Blasters (5). KI&MV Railroad GYK, who is beginning to consider himself less and less of a "coaster enthusiast," and more and more of a "park enthusiast."

And really, Flight of Fear is only "violent" for the very very beginning, and very ending. After the sidewinder, the ride is really quite tame all the way through to the MCBR. It leaves that quite slowly and doesn't really pick up again until the car slams to the right and begins its final helix around at ground-level just before the faux-corkscrew and the corkscrew. ALSO (here's some news I have to offer!): Kings Dominion's Flight of Fear did not stop on the MCBR on my trip last week. It slows about as much as Diamondback's, lightly skidding and slowing, before diving right into the finale. Really. Hand to God.

But who knows if they intended to "take" the building and themeing? The cost to transport the interior theme would likely be as much as to create it from scratch, and then there's the notion of the MTV Soundwave re-theme, which would've meant it didn't need any of those space props.

I don't find Flight of Fear rough in the least, but I often do ride in the front... Like any roller coaster, I'm sure there are some rough seats, and some days are rougher than others. In particular, though, Flight of Fear does suffer from what I refer to as (and if this starts getting widely used, I'd like to today proclaim myself the originator!) Premier vibration (alternatively, Premier rumble). You can feel it on Backlot Stunt Coaster, too (particularly in that ride's over-banked turn) and even on Revenge of the Mummy and Sky Rocket. There are just moments, particularly in sharp turns and rapid acceleration (the exit of the cobra roll comes to mind) that you can almost feel a rapid hammering or vibration that goes through the whole train, likely because the top wheel disconnects the tiniest fraction of a centimeter and is bouncing back down throughout the maneuver, like when your shoe makes a fart noise against a tile floor. It certainly is different because of the darkness and speed. Even when you can see what's going on thanks to the spotlights, it took me five or six rides on Flight of Fear to understand the layout of the first fifteen seconds or so. It really is hard to tell if you're upside down or not, and even harder to brace yourself to prepare for those quick transitions. And plus, cobra rolls are very rarely the "smooth" part of any ride, whether it be inverted, sitting, floorless, etc. They're just sort of create a jerky motion. I wouldn't call it rough. But I definitely feel that Premier vibration (name-droppin'!) throughout, especially in the right (or wrong) seats. Try the front row of each car, and for the best ride that I've found, the front row of the whole train. It's a world of difference, especially when you first enter the showbuilding, blinded by the camera flash, and emerge surrounded in color and supports. Just imagining it gets me hot and bothered! (TMI?) GYK, whose favorite roller coaster at Kings Island is undoubtedly Flight of Fear & who has never heard anything but praise from his friends and others on the train with him, and who laments the fact that, while the rides will get taller and faster, they will never have the spirit of adventure that Flight of Fear has so long as Cedar Fair owns the park.

I'm with you there. As much as you all think that this is a starflyer, just remember that it's an idea that spread from forum to forum and now it's grown out of proportion. Remember that the only thing that could point this to being a starflyer is the name. Which, in all fairness, is a pretty good hint. Stratosoar? Granted, Cedar Fair may have registered it for use at another park, or just to be sure than someone else couldn't use it in the years ahead. But whatever ride ends up being named Stratosoar I tend to think will be a star flyer, a slingshot style ride, or a bungee jump. I mean, Stratosoar as the name of a wooden coaster? Or a top spin? I can't see it. But GoodYellowKorn182 know this much. What is nothing? Correct. Giant Top Spins for $800 please?

I'm not a flume ride enthusiast my any means, but I can appreciate Race for Your Life Charlie Brown... It feels like the water level's too low sometimes, the way you go flying down the flume and ramming into turns. And then you'll run straight in to a real life "rapid" caused by the angles of the trough and you'll smash through a little wave. It's a little violent, really, and it's fun. I feel like if Shoot the Rapids had a waterwheel midway through, or something to just speed up the water, it would be better. But as you said, even watching the video, it's seven minutes long and there are portions where you feel like reaching out of the log and pushing yourself along because you're just in a long, flat straightaway with the water barely moving and absolutely nothing going on around you. It doesn't even have the natural, wooded setting of RFYLCB, so the best word for what you're doing is "meandering." It really would be perfect for a "tour of a bottling factory" if there were animatronic scenes happening around you, even if they were no more complex than the scenes happening on the train ride in the skeleton city. But it's literally just nothing. It's an okay flume ride and it would be a on the "good" end of the spectrum if it was exactly was it is now, but with a faster current. I think they wanted a flume with impressive roller coaster drops. They got the drops, but they forgot the rest of the ride (which is actually sort of what we should've expected).

And faster, with longer chains holding the chairs, allowing them to dip sideways at high speeds that far off the ground. What a doozy! And as for Shoot the Rapids, it is a log flume. A typical log flume, no more "eventful" or well-themed than our Wild Thornberry's one (but a lot slower and thus, a lot longer). The POV, however silly it may sound, well depicts the ride experience (at least, the one I had). A lot of people going "Uh, when is something going to happen?" as you drift lazily through long concrete canals. Then you go up a roller coaster hill, and fly into a whole bunch of water hoses aimed at your face. Totally inescapable. If you haven't ridden it, watch the POV I posted. There are so many times when you think to yourself, "This is the much-anticipated new ride?" I wasn't expecting Splash Mountain, but what of the "tour through the Crystal Rock Bottling Company?" The "feuding hillbillies fighting over the moonshine?" The "animation and storytelling?" The biggest "theme" I saw was an "enjoy your tour" sign above the first tunnel (a 45 second trip through mist) and a "watch for falling rocks" sign halfway through (which, I hoped, meant we were approaching an animatronic falling boulder. No such luck). It's a log flume. A very minimalistically themed one. And one that gets you just as wet if not wetter than the neighboring splashdown boat and river rapids ride (thus leaving the park with three soak-you-to-the-bone selections and zero rides that allow you to just cool off with a nice spritz). I think Shoot the Rapid's problem is really no different from Thirteens. It's opening gets delayed more and more and more, sort of forcing the park into this dead end where they have to say "Oh trust me, it's worth it!" The longer it's closed, the more they have to promise that the wait is worth it and this ride will surpass anything and everything you've witnessed before! A month and a half later, you get on and experience a seven minute, rapids-free log flume. And that's a little frustrating. But what else would you expect of the park? To say, "Well guys it's not open yet, but... Don't get your hopes up too high. I mean, it's just a log ride." They can't say that, right? So they have to amp it up. And unfortunately, Shoot the Rapids (in my opinion) didn't have the guts to deliver. GYK, who is going to abandon his optimistic wait for an Aqua Trax now, but resume his optimistic wait for a ride like DarKastle in the old Pirates building... I'll be waiting for that one for a while, eh?

^ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=shCyUzTqdto Excuse me while I run for the door!

I think that, if it is a 300 foot star flyer, there will be a lot of naysayers and skeptical teens, whose opinion will be changed upon riding it. The doubters here seem to be under the impression that star flyers are nothing more than yo-yo swings revolving way off the ground. It couldn't be further from the truth. And even if it were that simple, how is that not awesome? Remember Maverick? "It's 100 feet tall, what's the point?!" You better believe they now see der point. GYK, who can't weave his jokes in as seamlessly as Terpy.

It's an art.

Would you have them gauge the public's excitement level, and then aim no higher? So if the public interest was at a 6/10, they should market it as a 6/10-kind-of-ride? The very purpose of marketing is to drum up publicity, incite interest, and in many cases, to make things appear better than they really are. I don't know if that's the case here. It might be. But as the article posted above says, roller coasters have self-promotion. People see the huge construction area and want to find out more, so they ask questions, excite their friends, and daydream. When a ride is admittedly smaller (like a star flyer, a top spin, sn S&S swing, etc) and construction doesn't have to begin until well into the offseason, the park needs to do that promotion and stir up that excitement on its own. Sometimes, they aim too high (Thirteen). Sometimes they could market more than they do (Prowler).

You can still use the second day. They don't have to be used consecutively. Regardless of whether or not you signed it, the first day has been used and the computer keeps track of that. If they don't have you sign it, you don't have to. They should make you sign it, because that's how they verify that it's the same person using it both days. But if they don't make you sign it, what can you do?

And then there's that other Eiffel Tower... You know, the one in France? It used to be burnt red. Then mustard yellow. Recently, it's been brownish-gray. It has never been blue, green, or a mixture of the two.

I especially loved this: "The ride takes all of 17 seconds. The human body wasn't designed to stand more." And maybe he's right, since two of the three "faster" rides on Earth are typically marked with the infamous RCDB asterisk. http://www.rcdb.com/rhr.htm He made some mistakes, but it was written much like the article earlier this year about Kings Island pricing - it was very informal, and personal. Some facts should still be checked, but certainly an interesting read!

Or worse, the slide you scratch may scratch me!

Why are any of the B&M hypers better than any other B&M hypers? They're all about the same speed, height, airtime hills, a few helices, etc... It's in the intricacies of the ride. For example, no picture or statistic or video can represent Apollo's Chariot's grace vs. Nitro's raw force. The angle of the hills, the speed at the apex, the location, the foliage, the story, the unique elements (splashdowns, diving helices, diving turns) etc. These are the things that make the rides unique and create the impression that they do. Apollo's Chariot is easily my favorite of the ones I've ridden. Others list it as their least favorite. And chances are, a group from Canada's Wonderland would rank Behemoth higher than Diamondback. There's no right or wrong answer, and thus there aren't any concrete "reasons" why one is better than another.

Mr. Kinzel has been CEO since 1986... in the last five years alone the park's recieved Skyhawk, maXair, Shoot the Rapids, and Planet Snoopy...

Screamscape almost surely heard it from someone here. Screamscape is, in essence, the Wikipedia of the amusement park world. He frequents amusement park fansites like this one and reposts what he finds interesting. So, it's all of our speculation being considered, but he is the only one entering information onto the site. It's like Wikipedia in that it is fun to read, often speculative, a first-stop for many seeking information, but not always factual.

A very nice site! However, you have to edit your post and add ".com" to the end of the URL because it's not working right now. But this site was a really nice idea and I love it!