ragerunner

Looks like you had a great trip. As a parent its amazing how excited you can get for your kids and how much you want them to have a good experience.

I was not trying to say that no one over 60 rides thrill rides (I hope when I am 60 I am still riding thrill rides) or that some 8 year olds would not ride a thrill ride (as long as they meet the height requirement). But in general, I very seldom see 60 and 70 year old people or 8 year old people in line for Delirium, FofF, Vortex, Face Off or The Beast (all though I think The Beast is less of an extreme machine than Delirium, or FofF - just a lot rougher). Most parks, even CP will list certain rides as family rides, slow rides, etc... and other rides as extreme thrill rides. My point was that CP has focus on the extreme thrill ride experience since 2000 and has add no family rides during that time period and that a major part of the US demographic over the next 20 years is going to fall into the 60 and older crowd and the family crowd. I believe that the parks that can attracted this crowd and still attract thrill ride fans will do the best financially. The parks that omit these large demographics will struggle. I guess time will tell which parks thrive and which parks go the way of Astroworld. I enjoy reading other people views. The reality to all of this is your opinion and my opinion probably will not change PKI or CP market plan. Maybe we will end up with the best of both worlds, a great B&M or Intamin at PKI and NU at CP?

As other have stated here, MaXair, SkyHawk, MF, Dragster, WT and Maverick are NOT family type attractions. Check there height requirements and their thrill rating by Cedar Point. They are at the top of the thrill list. I think your definition of family friendly attractions and my definition of family friendly attractions are two different things. To me a family attractions is SDHC, Wild Thornberrys, Adventure Express, Avatar, Reptar, and IJ. Not Delirium, Face Off, FofF, Vortex, etc... these are thrill rides not family rides. With that said, I think a good park provides both types of ride experiences in abundance. Cedar Point does not due this (at this time). PKI, Universal Studios, Busch Gardens, Dollywood and Silver Dollar City do a very good job at this.

As you would notice in my previous post I said Cedar Point has continued to add attraction for the thrill seeker, MF, TTD, WT etc... at the same time they have added great restraunts, Coasters, Daves Famous BBQ, Johny Rockets just to name a few. While parks like Kings Island has added fast food choices like Chic Fila. Also Cedar Point has added Camp Snoopy for the youg ones that before Nick Universe was one of the nicest childrens areas around. Also they have added the Snoopy Night Time Spectacular as a great night show for the entire family. Cedar Point has done the best job of any park out there to add a mix of Thrill and Family attractions. More so than any other park. Now they are starting to focus more on family thrills with Maverick, which will be intense for the whole family. I am sorry, but I don't consider adding a few restaurants and a night time show as a great balance between thrill rides and family attractions. As for Camp Snoopy, it was a nice addition to the park and well done but it happened almost 8 years ago (1999). Since then we have seen, MF, WT, Dragster, Maverick, MaxAir, Skyhawk and they took out WWL (a family ride). I am not trying to be combative, but I truly can't see how anyone could say Cedar Point has done the best job of adding a mix of Thrill and Family attractions more so than any other park? What family attractions, some restaurants, and a night time show? While I have no financial numbers, here is a guess for what they have spent in the park since 2000. 80 million on thrill rides and 8 million on restaurants and the night show. That doesn't seem like much of a balance to me.

I believe Florida just recently passed a similar law on the start of school date.

I don't believe that CP has been adding family type attractions recently. How is adding MaxAir or Skyhawk (flatrides) adding family type rides? These rides received a rating of 5 for thrills by CP. MF, Dragster, and Maverick are not rides focused on the family experience as well. So that leaves us some new shows and food options - which most parks change and provide on a normal bases and the indoor waterpark was really not an addition to the park. Weather or not CP moves towards more family type rides in the future is only speculation at this time, since the past shows otherwise. My personal belief is that CP and most of the CF parks will focus more on family type rides and experiences because that is were the money is headed and it will allow them to also attract retiring baby boomers (this is going to be a huge demographic over the next 20 years). The parks that can attract these groups have a very good chance of growing financially. Those that ignore these groups may find a different financial fate. As a fan of thrill rides and a father of small children parks that hit the middle ground are going to probably do the best. Right now CP is no ways near the middle ground.

A lot of people have focused on Maverick and Griffon for next year. But, I think this the sleep ride of 2007. IT LOOKS GREAT.

If that is the case, then X-Flight might be going there. Where you able to get any pics of the heavy equipment or the footers? Since it sounds like you live in the area.

No, your right we can't just base it off of that. But, I think you can base it on history. CF has never invested into two big attractions in two years for MIA. PKI should receive a major investment every year, its one of the most profitable and most visited seasonal theme parks in the US. MIA is at best a small mid level park.

IF x-flight is going to be relocated in 2007 (I have not seen where this is true or not) then I would think site work would be underway at MIA (if that is were it might be going). It just seems to be that the cards are stacked in PKIs favor . Work being done behind The Racers, survey crew from the Cincy area at Geauga Lake. Plus, MIA received its largest single expansion since CFs take over just last year. I doubt MIA would receive two major additions in two years.

Shocking and Exciting - X-Flight (or what ever they may name it) Well Overdue - The return of the campgrounds? Fun - Snoopy on Ice? Only one week left in November, so if they do plan on making the announcement this month we will know soon enough.

To funny, you got me there. I agree the real lose in that area was Sea World - not as bad as the lose of Opryland but pretty close.

I think the big challenge with GL is, how do you downsize a park and not have significate attendance and fan lose. It like eating a piece of cheesecake from the Cheesecake Factory and then you are given a piece of cheesecake to eat for the local gas station. You probably will not be to excited to continue returning to the gas station for cheesecake year after year. If that makes sense.

If X-Flight leaves Geauga Lake, then I would agree that this is only the beginning of the reductions to the park. I believe you many even see the park become more like a Wyndote Lake. A few rides but mostly a waterpark. With the parks opening for 2007 not until Memorial Day weekend and the lose of their Halloween events they are already starting to operate it on waterpark hours.

The difference in total revenue isn't my estimate...it's what was reported by CF as part of the SEC disclosures prior to the Parmount acquisitions. (My guess was just trying to figure out how that difference broke down...) CP's revenue in 2005 was more than $100M more than KI's...so it's not a close amount at all--KI's revenue was about 40% lower than CP's. But again--CP is a destination resort, so they've got a lot wider revenue stream coming in. There's a lot of ways that CF could really grow KI's revenue...a new campground, CF-owned hotels...and of course a really big one that no one would be real happy about Thanks for your reply, Yes CP does bring in about 100 million dollars more the KI, but, if you take out the revenue from the hotels, campground, indoor waterpark, marina, challenge park and Soak City I believe the parks make about the same revenue. I agree CF could really increase money flow if they charged a seperate admission to Boomerang Bay (KI guest would not like this - and neither would I). Also, while Cedar Point Resort may take in 100 million dollars more than KI they also have a lot more overhead expenses with the hotel operations, marina, etc... Although, KI may increase revenue since it appears the campgrounds are returning. I guess my real point was, I wonder what each park clears after all expenses are paid each year? I do believe CP clears more than KI but I don't believe the difference is 100 million.

So from you estimates are you saying you think CP or KI have the better park revenue? I think its very close. If its is very close then I see no reason why they should not invest financially into KI as they would CP - park wise. That would mean $20 million dollar rides every few years, etc... and would not include moving a used coaster from an under performing park (if that really happens).

While season passes make up a certain percentage of park visitors, this concept would also apply to most parks. Even Disney, Sea World and Universal in Orlando have a large season pass holder group. Living down in Florida for several years I can tell you that they give some great deals to Florida residents and those residents do make up a nice percent of the overall park attendance. While season passes make up a certain percentage of park visitors, this concept would also apply to most parks. Even Disney, Sea World and Universal in Orlando have a large season pass holder group. Living down in Florida for several years I can tell you that they give some great deals to Florida residents and those residents do make up a nice percent of the overall park attendance. Sorry for the double post.

As a coaster fan I would not mind KI getting X-Flight. As a fan of KI I would not like it. Let me explain. KI is the number one visited seasonal park in the US. A park with this kind of income and attendance deserves better than a used coaster from another park. Would they move a used coaster to Cedar Point - probably not. So why do it at KI, who has a bigger attendance. (I know Cedar Point has bigger revenue - but I would love to see a park vs park income factoring out hotels, marina, campgrounds, Challenge Park, and the indoor water park.

This is starting to get interesting. The people at Geauga Lake Today seem to think something may be up.

I thought for a while that KI could use its Timberwolf for a show like this.

I think that would be a lot of help with this topic. It just seems like someone in the GL area would have driven by to see if X looks like it is being removed?

The Antique Cars were a classic and their setting in the park was great. I would love to see them return in some form or fashion. While I think IJ is a great ride, the location they chose for it was terrible.

I agree with you RailRider, Gaylord's closing of Opryland may have been one of the great Amusement Park disasters of all time. That park was great. The theming was very well done, the park was set in a beautiful forest, with some very uniques rides and great shows. I still look back at what they did with Opryland and just shake my head. Why didn't they just buy the current 120 acres and build the mall on that and leave the park. It would have saved them a lot of money.

While Screamscape is wrong at times, its seems to be right more than its is wrong.

Are we talking about PKI central becoming KI central and PKI officially changing its name to Kings Island again?