Steveo3631

Well, if CF has to pay more to keep the Paramount brand, I do see that ending. Why promote another companies brand if it does not support your own business. As for Kumba and Montu....how I love them. Kracken just has too simple of a footprint for me. I've worked Beast, FOF, Racer, Dragons, Hulk, Big Thunder, Splash...and Kracken does not get me. No flow, and the drop is too rolled out. Being in SW/BG Education, the biggest thrill is a killer whale birth. Believe me, if I get the chance to return to my beloved KI, you will see one person on The Beast platform close to tears. It the brakes do not ruin the ride for me, I will be one happy Ex-KI team member! I'm glad to see enough people love KI enough to have a a website and message boards like these. Never have I seen a group of people so involved with a theme park. I envy all of you able to still be involved in such a great place. The caring and love for the park is what keeps KI special! Save me Seat 62R Train 3 for me on Beast. That's where my heart is. Keep up the spirit guys! CF better keep the best rides operations and maintenance staff in the world. I have nothing but respect for JBM, TC and KE, the best management team of which I have ever had the hornor of working with...even tho Carowinds now has TC. on with the discussion...I was getting misty eyes <wink>

OH! I'm sure this has been discussed before....but...is CF bound by a contract to use the Paramount name for 10 years for, let's say $100,000, and could only drop it if they paid a buy ut of, let's say, an amount greather than the contract....therefore forcing CF to keep the name which benefits paramount? Or is the contracxt for the use of the Paramount name, for again $100, 000 and they would only have to pay off the contract to drop the name? Or simply do the need to pay, again let's say $100, 000 to keep the Paramount name, and would have to pay nothing to drop it? Hey, I'm starved with Kracken down here...humor me...

Having the name "Paramount" in front of KI is only a small part of the park's history. Kings Island is much more valuable and recognizible as a brand when it comes to theme parks. One thing about CF, they know how to get their parks on TV. It's only uphill from here!

If I remember, from my far vantage point in Orlando, the Coke deal was not signed that long ago. I doubt they'd relinquish the profits they make off of PP. CF may be able to coexist with buth Pepsi at their current parks, and Coke at the PP,, until such time as the current contract expires, eunless Pepsi mas a deal for all CF properties to be Pepsi, wich would force a buyout of Coke. I'm not a Lawyer, just an ex ride operator speaking of the park I love. Pepsi or Coke, Top Gun or Rolling Thunder, the spirit of the place, the history, and what the park has given me in my life will never change how I feel. Six Flags would have no interest in keeping their brand at Geauga Lake. Where would they benefit? Paramount would benefit by keeping their brands at the former PP. If PP had a license with Paramount for the brands, I bet it will be one heck of a buyout. The brands at KI support Paramount product., I don't think anyone visitied PKI, just for the Paramount brands. The entertainment value of KI far exceeds a mere name. Slap "top Gun" on a tilt-a-whirl is not going to draw people in. the attraction itself has to be worth it. It the current Top Gun at KI was named "Doodle Coastrer" people would still ride it because it is fun, not just for the name!

Does anyone remember that KD was built and owned by Family Leisure, which was a joint venture of Taft and Kroger!! Eventually Kroger dropped out, Taft sold the parks to the management group then named KECO, Lindner bought KI, Great West Life bought the remaining portion of CW they didn't already own, and finally Paramount brought them all together again. I'm pretty happy with Paramount for bringing them back together! As for the Paramount name, the contracts and deals made by all the theme parks are I am sure quite twisted in a legal mess. Look how H-B was in three different park chains at the same time, Six Flags, Paramount and Universal. As those contracts expired, they disappeared from those parks almost entirely. As far as the deal with KI and Coke, that deal is done, and new owners would have to abide by the terms of existing contracts or buy them out. The same goes for the Paramount name and the Paramount products already named on products. Will it be worth CF spending the money to buy those licenses out or use that money to put back into the parks. I'd rather see Top Gun named as such for years and a bigger staff to do guest service and clean up the park! I'm sure this acquisition will keep lawyers busy for quite a long time! Then again, just to argue with myself, CF did rename the attractions at Geauga Lake. That may have been part of the business deal with Six Flags. Forgive the misspellings and such...no time to proof!

Is Hydra a bad ride? I don't get out of Orlando anymore. Whether KI was under Paramount, Viacom, Blockbuster of CBS, it seems all corporate positioning under a larger umbrella. I always felt that the profits returned from the park could not compete with the profits made from even one release like Titanic. Spinning off companies to the CBS division was death. Viacom kept the profit producers and CBS got the also rans. Blockbuster was sold back to that company when the profits from that business started to slide.

Paramount/Viacom did get the original Taft parks together again. They let the parks have individuality. Not every park got a "Wayne's World", nor did every park get a Bubba Gump restaurant. The good thing about CF owning the park now is that we will have rides and attractions for their own sake, not for the sake of cross promoting other products I don't want to "ride the movies", I want "a" kick a coaster!

With these parks closing, the wooden coasters there are likely to be demolished. Not a good trend.

Paramount kept everthing status quo until Jan 1 when they bought. It depends on if Cedar Fair wants to make a HUGE statement by changing logos and advertising before the off season.Waiting until the park closes to change policies, staffing and management would best be done when the park closes so it will appear transparant to the guests. People (or the public at large) always like to equate good change with birthdays, anniversaries and the New Year. It'll be interesting to see just how big a mark CF will make during the season.

I've visited KI since 1972, worked there longer than any other job, and have had it become a major part of my life. I thought it would be strange seeing it owned by Cedar Fair, and now, seeing Paramount finally taken away from the park's name......I'm excited about the possibilities this new owner brings. No more Lindner or Paramount interested in just profits, but a company that will care about the park and restore the luster to the KI crown! What excitement the next few years will bring!

It's good that Cedar Point, KI and CW are all at the 3.5 to 4.0 attendance levels. In reports I have been reading, some are boasting that Magic Mountain is a full time park that attracts 2.6 million guests a year. I hope that's a misprint! That's pretty low for a year round park. Six Flags may have bought a lot of underperforming parks and expected to improve them, but Cedar Fair is buying parks with strong name brands and healthy earnings. (and I hope they restore all of the PKI carrousel horses like the ones Rick was in the process of doing years back. His horses were beautiful when he got done with them)

I see your point. On a floorless you can visually see more. I tend to like the inverted because of the lack of track underneath. I've yet to ride Kracken in the rear of the train, where I traditionally ride. Maybe that's where I'm missing the appeal of Kracken. But, I'd pick Fire Dragon or Montu over any other B&M . I must get to SFG to ride a Flying B&M.

Curious as to why floorless is winning over inverted. I find the inverted to be more intense than the floorless, but the only floorless I've been on is Kracken, my least favorite B&M

Hulk and Dueling Dragons are two very reliable coasters. While I was there, they experienced very little downtime for train or track issues. Most of Hulk's downtime was the launch, which was not designed by B&M. With Cedar Fair buying KI, my hope is they introduce a B&M inverted there!

You can never be too safe. Discussion and constant awareness are benificial to the entire industry. Be it a slick surface, a rough spot on a ride, a maintenance oversight, or a flaw in a design, constantly being open and aware keeps us alert to a potential incident or more importantly, the avoidance of a potential incident. I agree, Rattler needed design modifications. Mission Space is not too intense, but benefits from having a milder version just the same. Extreme coasters are not dangerous. Some incidents are unavoidable. Someone prone to a stroke or a heart attack may suffer that on a roller coaster as easily as behind the wheel of a car or stepping off a curb. Safety is questioning everything and not being blindly confident. One can never be too confident. That's when things get overlooked.

What widespread incidents are you referring to? There have been two deaths on Mission Space out of Millions of rides... That does not sound widespread to me.. although they are still sad and tragic. Maybe "widespread" was too broad a word. Every incident does not result in death. I was including injuries and illnesses. I remember seeing reports of multiple injuries a day on the Rattler. If a ride causes multiple first aid runs every day, shouldn't that put up a red flag? How can anyone say that definately every amusement park ride in existance is perfect in every way? I'm on the side of the rides, but allow for the possibility that maybe some ride, somewhere may go too far.

Theme parks have millions of guests visiting them every year, many with conditions that they are unaware of. Should theme parks then take into account an extreme amount of illnesses or deaths as an indication that the ride may be too intense for too great a number of guests. I agree that it is up to the rider to be responsible for their choice in riding a particular ride. The problem is EVERY ride, no matter how innocuous, has warnings for every possible medical condition, mainly for insurance reasons. How many of us have seen guests get on a ride that we think shouldn't ride, and try to convince them not to go. When the same warning appears on an elevator that appears on a high speed roller coaster, is the guest going to take that warning seriously? Believe me, I am the first to say that theme park rides are safe, barring any rare circumstances of operator error or maintenance failure, but if a ride is causing widespread incidents (Mission Space or Rattler) isn't it responsible for a park to consider the wider population by making modifications? Not every 17 year old is the same, nor is every 70 year old. Every guest can stand up to a limit, and even they don't know the limit. I offer these comments to continue an important discussion. I hardly offer them as fact, or even my definate opinion. Safety is our number one goal, and is always important to discuss.

Rock 'n' Roller Coaster isn't an extreme ride. The high G-Force is for minimal duration. There had to be a pre-existing medical condition or other factor, such as a heat related illness. R 'n' R isn't nearly as intense as Mission Space. The Mission Space deaths were tragic and needless due to the rides intensity. The Big Thunder death was tragic and inflammitory due to the maintenance standards not being met, and operations for letting the 13th train go out loaded after hearing a noise. This death is just tragic and sad.

Maybe some blarney with me... I tend to get on the soapbox. I'm just glad Cedar Fair will have the park, not Six Flags. Cedar Fair knows what they are doing. As far as operations goes, be it for the Eagles or any other ride, I hope there is a blending of the two companies. Cedar has experience to give to KI, and KI has experience to give to Cedar Fair. With luck, Cedar Fair will not come in and make changes just to standardize to their way of doing things without thought to the knowledge of the KI staff. It took Paramount years to standardize when they brought the parks back together. KI was operating differently than KD, height requirements for similar rides within the chain were different. The transition will be difficult, but in the end KI will still be with us. As far as the land values around KI being "low", my point is at least they are not high enough to motivate any one to close the park. That's why I say for guests and team members to buy when they are in the park. Keep it profitable.

Maybe a very late post. Progress is great. I would never say that the Rivertown Canoes should have stayed instead of The Beast. However, I mourn the loss of 'Tiques, KCKC, and the Eagles. Let me turn my pointless post into how we feel about rides and KI. I have friends whose parents met while working on 'Tiques. They ended up working on 'Tiques when they were old enough. "Tiques was their culture. The 'Tiques crew was special. There were times when they were so well staffed, they staffed the rest of the park. Working on a ride, or group of rides, becomes your identity within the park. For those of us who worked on Eagles, or KCKC or 'Tiques, a part of us died when they were torn down or moved. In a time when parks like Astroworld, and potentialy Magic Mountain, can be closed and sold because of the value of the land, we should be thankful that a buyer was found for KI. Everyone who loves KI, crew, former crew, and guests, need to support it by playing that game, or buying that ice cream. Spend money in the park, not on the way. Many thought that the Texas Cyclone would always be there. It was once known as one of the best wooden coasters ever built. Magic Mountain could be next. Let's hope the land values around KI remain low. It could have all been gone all in one business deal.

New poster here, but a lifer when it comes to KI. (I can finally drop the P! I always said "The Paramount is silent") Tony C and Carowinds, give back our Eagles!)

Hopefully KD's FOF will return. Could it be maintenance budget or staffing budget? That would be a huge investment to move and rebuild. It's too intricate to move successfully.

There's nothing like doing a test ride and smelling a camp fire, and knowing you're nowhere NEAR the campground! That smell went away I assume with the loss of the friction brakes. Thank God for treated lumber! We never did a test ride when a guest complained of smelling smoke or complained about a lap restraint. That was fixed by the policy in 1999.

I remember the KI wood coaster maintenance crew as being the best ever! They could find the smallest rough spot on Beast and have it taken care of before morning. I've seen them unlayer a hundred feet of track to get to one bad board five layers down. Their care of those rides always impressed me!