The Beast Rider Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 WHAT?? "Two trains collided in the station during a rain-related shutdown of the ride. The second train failed to stop short of the station and slid into another train that was unloading passengers. Twenty people were taken to area hospitals with various injuries. No injuries requiring an overnight hospital stay were reported." This is a quote from the Cincinnati Enquirer about the accident. What you are saying would have required two trains to be in the same block of the track at the same time, a condition that everyone knows does not happen. Here is a link to the article. http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/10/1...ders_taken.html Also, in checking KI's website, it says that The Beast approaches 70MPH. According to ACE, the fastest it has been measured by radar in recent years is 57MPH. Actually, I don't think you can speak for "everyone" because you obviously don't know what happened yourself. The Beast features 2 seperate blocks on it's brake shed and one in its station, the skid brakes, wet with rain, failed to slow down the train enough and allowed it to slide into the block ahead of it causing the collision. Blocks on coasters have fail safes, but the block system can fail. After the incident and the addition of the magnetic trim brakes, The Beast received a re-designed block system. The only part of The Beast i would like to see add a trim brake is right before the double helix. SOB's rosebowl doesn't bother me but The Beast's double helix does. It does have a trim brake there, as you descend into the double helix. Obviously I can read. I know how the blocks are set up. You are the one that said the collision did not happen in the station. Where else are passengers unloading? Do they unload in the brake run now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Obviously I can read. I know how the blocks are set up. You are the one that said the collision did not happen in the station. Where else are passengers unloading? Do they unload in the brake run now? If you know how the blocks are set up then please enlighten everyone else, since i already know, as to how they were set up before the accident and after. Just because the Cincinnati Enquirer reports it one way, does not mean thats exactly what happened. The media is not always correct (Anyone remember WKRC's "Son of Beast fire" reporting?) The skid brakes were at the rear of the brake run right where the train come up from exiting the helix, that train bumped into the train on the "ready" block ahead of it as it was being moved into the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Maple The Tree King Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Obviously I can read. I know how the blocks are set up. You are the one that said the collision did not happen in the station. Where else are passengers unloading? Do they unload in the brake run now? Nope, they unload in the station. The way that article was written is very misleading. While the ride was being shut down for weather concerns and passengers were unloading in the station a train sitting in the "ready" brakes, the block right before the station, was struck by a train that came up into the brake run and slid through the wet skid brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The trims are on certin parts of the ride to slow the trains down. The ride picks up speed at certin turns and if the speed is too much then it will either break the track, derail the trains or hurt the riders. The trims are used at certin levels though out the day. I know for Beast ERT in the morning the trims are used but on a lite level. As the day goes by the trims are used more heavyer. The trims dont make the ride though. It also depends on the weather too. The coaster gets alot of riders every year. Some famous faces ride as well. The trims dont stop them from riding. I as well wont stop riding because of the trims. I ride the thing 5 or 6 times a day or more. Lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Dalefan, I can guarantee you, that the trim levels are not adjusted throughout the day. As coastersRZ pointed out, the only way to adjust how much a trim slows down a train is by removing sections of it like they do at the beginning of the season, they are not adjusted throughout the day at different levels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well you will have to tell them that then. I feel it slower at those spots as the day goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 WHAT?? "Two trains collided in the station during a rain-related shutdown of the ride. The second train failed to stop short of the station and slid into another train that was unloading passengers. Twenty people were taken to area hospitals with various injuries. No injuries requiring an overnight hospital stay were reported." This is a quote from the Cincinnati Enquirer about the accident. What you are saying would have required two trains to be in the same block of the track at the same time, a condition that everyone knows does not happen. Here is a link to the article. http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/10/1...ders_taken.html Also, in checking KI's website, it says that The Beast approaches 70MPH. According to ACE, the fastest it has been measured by radar in recent years is 57MPH. Obviously I can read. I know how the blocks are set up. You are the one that said the collision did not happen in the station. Where else are passengers unloading? Do they unload in the brake run now? I'd like to see just how much you know about the block set up on The Beast. In fact I'd like to know if you even know how many blocks The Beast actually has, and where they begin and end. When it comes to amusement park accidents, the news is often wrong. Gordon Bombay and I both know several people who worked at the park at the time and were working at the time of the incident. The accident did NOT happen in the station. It happened on the bridge when a train did not come to a complete stop in the safety brake and hit a train in the ready brakes. Apparently you already know what blocks those are, but in case you do not they are the block directly behind and the station, and the block behind it, both on the bridge. It was rainy, the trains hit at about 5mph. Also from personal experience working The Beast, the operator has the ability to check the speed of the train in several locations throughout the track, and throughout the year, I have seen speeds above 70mph. That’s not to say that they keep it there but it reaches it; the last bare bones night last year was a perfect example of The Beast going exceptionally fast. Maintenance determines the amount of trim needed in the morning every day depending on weather and temperature conditions. They know what they're doing when they're trimming the ride. Several of the maintenance members helped build The Beast and they know where the speeds need to be to reduce stress and wear on the coaster, and its not anyone else’s place to question their decisions. 29 years of experience for them speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted February 5, 2008 Author Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well, that was interesting. On a different note, I do wish that they could still do the occational "trimless" ride sessions. But, alas, that too went the way of the skid brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well you will have to tell them that then. I feel it slower at those spots as the day goes. Who are "them"? It may feel slower at other spots, but your feeling of ride can depend on temprature, weather, and even where you sit. The trims are not adjusted throughout the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Maple The Tree King Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 Well, that was interesting. On a different note, I do wish that they could still do the occational "trimless" ride sessions. But, alas, that too went the way of the skid brakes. Uhm, where were there ever "trimless" ride sessions? The trim brakes exist for a reason. The old skid brakes could be adjusted far more easier by adding and lessening the counterweight and could be changed during the day where as the magnetic brakes can not. There were never "trimless" ride sessions, it would be a nightmare on the track and in complete violation of state safety laws. The ride was not, and still is not, approved and inspected by the state to run, or ever run, without its trim brakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 The ones working the ride. I ride it alot. I know it from riding it during the days i am at the park. Ride it for early ERT and you will see what i mean. Magnum is the same way with its breaks. Very rarely will they turn off the trims or lite them up around the big turn before the tunnels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 The ones working the ride. I ride it alot. I know it from riding it during the days i am at the park. Ride it for early ERT and you will see what i mean. Both Delorean Rider and I have a lot of experience working that ride and riding it during early morning ERT's and all throughout the season. The employees do not tell guests that the trims are adjusted throughout the day, and if they do, they are wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Well, that was interesting. Good answer I guess that answered several questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 When was the last time you worked it? Things do change with the rides you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Delorean Rider was supervisor there this past summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalefan Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I am just going by what i feel when i ride it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Actually it does mean something, the trim brakes are not adjusted during the day, just because you think you "feel" it, doesn't make it so. Both Deloreanrider and I have first hand experience to be able to confidently say that the magnetic trim brakes are not adjusted throughout the day. How your ride "feels" can depend on many factors, however this is not one of them, you are wrong, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 The ones working the ride. I ride it alot. I know it from riding it during the days i am at the park. Ride it for early ERT and you will see what i mean. Both Delorean Rider and I have a lot of experience working that ride and riding it during early morning ERT's and all throughout the season. The employees do not tell guests that the trims are adjusted throughout the day, and if they do, they are wrong. Actually it does mean something, the trim brakes are not adjusted during the day, just because you think you "feel" it, doesn't make it so. Both Deloreanrider and I have first hand experience to be able to confidently say that the magnetic trim brakes are not adjusted throughout the day. How your ride "feels" can depend on many factors, however this is not one of them, you are wrong, sorry Well said. There are obviously many factors that influence the speed of the train. Among the obvious are temperature, weather, ridership, etc; but it is extremely rare that the trim brakes are adjusted during the day. Granted it has happened, but the train has to be moving consistently either exceptionally fast or exceptionally slow at certain parts of the track to justify it. In order to adjust the brakes during the day, the ride must be shut down, locked out, and then the block safety test must be re-run after the change has been made. Like I said it's very rare that this is done. PS. When was the last time you worked it? Things do change with the rides you know. In addition to last year (2007) I worked The Beast a LOT in my time at Tomb Raider, and have been trained on The Beast since 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnfromdaboats Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I didn't read everyones but heres probable the solution thats going to happen. G TRAINS! Let the hating of me begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I didn't read everyones but Maybe you should before posting, out of consideration to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Maple The Tree King Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I didn't read everyones but heres probable the solution thats going to happen. G TRAINS! Let the hating of me begin. Uh, no. The Beast will be running its normal PTC trains this year. The park did receive some G trains fro Geauga Lake, they are now parts donors and can be seen from the air sitting outside exposed to the elements if you have a friend in the flying business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium_Guy Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 -The majority of the time these trim brakes are not use. They were added back when The Racer's lacked head rests, still had buzz bars, and had two wooden beams running on the chassis of the car. Even back when the cars were this way the trim brakes were only used during the regular season till the end, as The Racer often requires the use of a 2nd chain to help it along its course when the fresh grease on its wheels is still getting broken in at the beginning of the season. This chain is located on the last hill before the split. I gotta respectfully disagree with ya Gordon. I can't think of ONE ride on Racer last season where those trim brakes were actually turned off. More often than NOT, they are very much in use. Regarding Beast though, Gordon is absolutely right in that the magnetic trims are not adjusted throughout the day....not sure where anyone could even remotely think that. They would need to physically go out and remove them to make any adjustments. For me personally, Beast is a rather dull ride overall. I love the helix and consider it to be one of the best endings for a coaster out there, but the rest of the ride simply lacks intensity. I'm sorry, for whoever posted it, there is no way The Beast has hit 70MPH since they did the retrofit to the magnetic brakes. Even the Park itself has since downgraded the top speed of the ride. Back in the days of the skid brakes, sure, it booked it around the course. These days, the train bounces and putters its way to the second lift.....with the last car barely making it all the way on the lift before the chain engages. Just my personal opinion. - Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeLorean Rider Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 -The majority of the time these trim brakes are not use. They were added back when The Racer's lacked head rests, still had buzz bars, and had two wooden beams running on the chassis of the car. Even back when the cars were this way the trim brakes were only used during the regular season till the end, as The Racer often requires the use of a 2nd chain to help it along its course when the fresh grease on its wheels is still getting broken in at the beginning of the season. This chain is located on the last hill before the split. I gotta respectfully disagree with ya Gordon. I can't think of ONE ride on Racer last season where those trim brakes were actually turned off. More often than NOT, they are very much in use. Regarding Beast though, Gordon is absolutely right in that the magnetic trims are not adjusted throughout the day....not sure where anyone could even remotely think that. They would need to physically go out and remove them to make any adjustments. For me personally, Beast is a rather dull ride overall. I love the helix and consider it to be one of the best endings for a coaster out there, but the rest of the ride simply lacks intensity. I'm sorry, for whoever posted it, there is no way The Beast has hit 70MPH since they did the retrofit to the magnetic brakes. Even the Park itself has since downgraded the top speed of the ride. Back in the days of the skid brakes, sure, it booked it around the course. These days, the train bounces and putters its way to the second lift.....with the last car barely making it all the way on the lift before the chain engages. Just my personal opinion. - Todd I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. I have worked on that ride A LOT in the last 3 years and the driver has the ability to check train speeds in several locations on the ride; one of which is the first drop. That's not to say that every train goes 70mph but I can assure you that I have seen 70 miles an hour several times on the first drop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium_Guy Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. I have worked on that ride A LOT in the last 3 years and the driver has the ability to check train speeds in several locations on the ride; one of which is the first drop. That's not to say that every train goes 70mph but I can assure you that I have seen 70 miles an hour several times on the first drop. Wow. Beast must be able to defy the laws of physics then. It takes poor little old Magnum to drop 200 feet to hit its 72MPH top speed and Beast manages to do it at the bottom of it's 141 foot first drop.....and thats complete with trim brakes! Not doubting what you saw, I just don't have much faith in the accuracy. - Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dare-to-fly Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. I have worked on that ride A LOT in the last 3 years and the driver has the ability to check train speeds in several locations on the ride; one of which is the first drop. That's not to say that every train goes 70mph but I can assure you that I have seen 70 miles an hour several times on the first drop. Wow. Beast must be able to defy the laws of physics then. It takes poor little old Magnum to drop 200 feet to hit its 72MPH top speed and Beast manages to do it at the bottom of it's 141 foot first drop.....and thats complete with trim brakes! Not doubting what you saw, I just don't have much faith in the accuracy. - Todd Well said. The operator might think he/she has the ability, but the accuracy of the system is the deciding factor. When I read about the trimless rides, which did exist by the way, it took a trimless ride to get over 70 mph, and that was all the way at the lowest and fastest point of the ride just before the second lift hill. The comment about The Beast poking its way to the second lift just gets my point across to those who didn't understand what I meant. The brakes seem to be turned on more and more every season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon Bombay Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I'm sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. I have worked on that ride A LOT in the last 3 years and the driver has the ability to check train speeds in several locations on the ride; one of which is the first drop. That's not to say that every train goes 70mph but I can assure you that I have seen 70 miles an hour several times on the first drop. Wow. Beast must be able to defy the laws of physics then. It takes poor little old Magnum to drop 200 feet to hit its 72MPH top speed and Beast manages to do it at the bottom of it's 141 foot first drop.....and thats complete with trim brakes! Not doubting what you saw, I just don't have much faith in the accuracy. - Todd Well said. The operator might think he/she has the ability, but the accuracy of the system is the deciding factor. When I read about the trimless rides, which did exist by the way, it took a trimless ride to get over 70 mph, and that was all the way at the lowest and fastest point of the ride just before the second lift hill. The comment about The Beast poking its way to the second lift just gets my point across to those who didn't understand what I meant. The brakes seem to be turned on more and more every season. They're not. They are not "turned on" either. They are adjusted my adding or removing sections of magnets to the existing brake lines. They are rarely adjusted throughout the season and when they are it is not enough to make a substantial difference. As DeloreanRider stated, the operator on The Beast, just as on most modern coasters, has the ability to see the speed of the train throughout various points of the course as each train goes by. The ride can go over 70 miles per hour depending on how the trims are adjusted throughout the season it doesn't need to be "trimless" to do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flightoffear4thtrain Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Speaking of the speed of The Beast, I heart a rumor that sob breaks 80mph now. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Maple The Tree King Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I really, really doubt that. The Son of Beast had its loop removed so that it could use lighter trains to provide for a more comfortable ride. When it first re-opened this previous season on July 4th weekend the ride op's were doing spiels that claimed it went 72 m.p.h. If that is that case, then SOB and El Toro are neck and neck for the title of the fastest wooden roller coaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delirium_Guy Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 They're not. They are not "turned on" either. They are adjusted my adding or removing sections of magnets to the existing brake lines. They are rarely adjusted throughout the season and when they are it is not enough to make a substantial difference. As DeloreanRider stated, the operator on The Beast, just as on most modern coasters, has the ability to see the speed of the train throughout various points of the course as each train goes by. The ride can go over 70 miles per hour depending on how the trims are adjusted throughout the season it doesn't need to be "trimless" to do that. I agree about the adjustment of the brakes. Since the magnetic brakes have been added, the rides have been very consistent. Prior to that, it did seem to vary by the day and weather conditions. Of course, that was the very nature of the skid brakes. I don't think anyone is going to argue that the ride *can* hit 70MPH.....but no way in hell does it do that now with the braking that takes place. I am not doubting what anyone has seen, I believe you. Again, I just have very little faith in how accurate that screen actually is. When Jeff Siebert was still around, he even mentioned on more than one occasion that the ride maxed out at about 57MPH in the quick dip. While I certainly agree that rides pick up some speed during the course of the day as they warm up, an extra 13MPH seems to be a bit on the extreme side. - Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 El Toro fastest? Actually, no. There is another faster wooden coaster than El Toro: http://www.rcdb.com/rhr.htm?statistic=0&type=2 Colossus! Also note The Beast's speed on that page is listed as 64.8 mph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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