Trim Brakes

[The Beast Rider]

^Have you ever ridden it without the brakes?

Yea, I couldn't feel my spine.

If I may ask, when did you ride Beast without the brakes?

[Beast1979]

Last Summer.

[MarketingExpress]

^Prepare for the flood of posts about that comment

[RailRider]

^

Do you think a comment like that even deserves a reply?

Are you Serious

[Guest rcfreak339]

Didn't they add the Brakes in 2003 or early 2002?, after the minor accident?

[Gordon Bombay]

^Jackson, I am about 100 percent certain you did not ride The Beast without brakes last summer.

Thanks Beast Rider, the chassis on the current Beast trains are original to the ride, as are many other mechanisms. Bear, they can repaint trains...in fact they repaint all the wood coaster trains every year (not sure about Son of Beast and Adventure Express, which the wood coaster department maintains, but the PTC trains on Racer and Beast receive a fresh coat of paint each off season).

As for the brake line of Beast being a trim brake, it was in fact always there braking the ride to keep it running within "acceptable" paramaters. In the past, yes, it was a block for the ride and could be stopped there and the ride resumed with feed motors, however it always featured a skid brake for trimming the ride.

Also the brakes on Beast do not make it go any slower, the braking is just way more abrupt and sudden than it was in the past. The skid brakes acted on friction and could be raised and lowered by a counterweight depending on how maintenance wanted the ride to run. When raised higher, they created more friction for more braking, when lower, they allowed less friction for less braking. The skid brakes extended nearly all the way down the first drop, a good deal down the second drop, right before the pneumatic pinch brakes in the brake line, and right as you entered the final brake run. The magnetic brakes do the same job, just much more quickly and do not require the signifigant amount of length the skid brakes required.

Vortex separating from the supports in 1988? Welded steel just coming apart? With how fast that train takes that turn, I really doubt there never used to be some form of braking there.

They can indeed paint trains, but in this case they didn't. The original trains were 4 row per car, 5 car per train configuration

Garret, the trains currently on The Beast are the original trains, just very heavily modified and configured. The conversion of the four bench cars into three bench cars was a project designed and spearheaded by Charlie Dinn and was implemented to reduce wear and tear on the track.

They had a slightly wider undercarriage along the sides to be used along with the feed motors in the brake shed to start a blocked train.

The chassis beneath The Beast trains have been the same since 1979, with the exception of a few newer ones that were purchased from PTC when the conversion from 4 bench to 3 bench was done, they are still the same width they have always been and feed motors are still used in the station, transfer table, and side track.

Beast was designed to run 4 trains, the brake shed was never designed to be trims, but to setup when necessary and restart a train when clear. When the 4th train was removed

The Beast never ran with four trains, it has run with 3 since 1979. There is speculation that maybe the ready brakes before the station would have been the spot for an unload station to speed up capacity, however, this is not how the ride would be completed as.

the trains were replaced with the current 3 row per car/6 car per train configuration and have been in use ever since.

The trains were never replaced, but rather reconfigured to the 3 bench trains, they are for the most part the original trains.

Here's another fun fact. Operators used to be able to use feed motors to reverse a train in the station when they overshot the queues. With the current set of trains however, the motors did not grip the trains as well and used to slip causing a nasty odor in the station. This feature has since been removed as it's no longer possible to blow the station brakes.

While with The Beast's current block system it can not blow the station brakes in the same way it could possibly have with skid brakes, it should be noted that the width of the trains never changed and that feed motors are still used and still present in the station. If you ever participate in the walk back in the mornings you can often times see the crew use these feed motors which have no problems gripping the trains.

[Beast1979]

^Jackson, I am about 100 percent certain you did not ride The Beast without brakes last summer.

Well then can you politely explain to me why it felt like we were going 10+ mph faster, and why I came off the ride holding my back because I got nailed on the turns?

[Guest rcfreak339]

Was the train like empty?

[RailRider]

You were sitting on a wheel...

[Gordon Bombay]

^Excellent point. You sit on the rear wheel seats and you are in for a rough, rough ride. Sit on the front wheels, slightly bumpy yet enjoyable. Middle seat and its a wonderful ride.

^Jackson, I am about 100 percent certain you did not ride The Beast without brakes last summer.

Well then can you politely explain to me why it felt like we were going 10+ mph faster, and why I came off the ride holding my back because I got nailed on the turns?

Simple, you felt like you were cause it was all in your mind. Every now and then at the beginning and end of the season when it is slightly colder The Beast will have one or tow of its magnetic brakes removed off of a line, yet in the spots were there are magnetic brakes (first drop, bunny hill after the left turn, brake line, second drop into the helix, and entrance to final brake run) there have always been magnetic brakes present since they were installed. Between opening day this year and closing day last year there were never magnetic brakes completely removed from The Beast. Every time you rode, you rode with brakes.

[Beast1979]

^Jackson, I am about 100 percent certain you did not ride The Beast without brakes last summer.

Well then can you politely explain to me why it felt like we were going 10+ mph faster, and why I came off the ride holding my back because I got nailed on the turns?

Simple, you felt like you were cause it was all in your mind. Every now and then at the beginning and end of the season when it is slightly colder The Beast will have one or tow of its magnetic brakes removed off of a line, yet in the spots were there are magnetic brakes (first drop, bunny hill after the left turn, brake line, second drop into the helix, and entrance to final brake run) there have always been magnetic brakes present since they were installed. Between opening day this year and closing day last year there were never magnetic brakes completely removed from The Beast. Every time you rode, you rode with brakes.

I see. Thank You for Explaining that.

^Excellent point. You sit on the rear wheel seats and you are in for a rough, rough ride. Sit on the front wheels, slightly bumpy yet enjoyable. Middle seat and its a wonderful ride.

This I know.

Second Row, Fourth Car. That's where all the Thrills Are.

[The Beast Rider]

Beast1979, it might well have been going 10+ MPH faster last year. They have added several new magnetic "blocks" to the rows of trims this year alone. The train barely makes it back into the brake run if its mostly empty now, especially on the walkback in the morning. It never used to do that. The two additional blocks added to the helix drop were put there sometime between the 4th of July and the first of August this year. I wish that you were old enough to have actually experienced The Beast, both with the skids and on the rare "trimless" rides, then you would understand what The Beast actually is and is capable of. KI really needs to get it back in shape. During the KIC event, Jeff mentioned that The Beast "sells itself" to the public. I think they are banking on that a little too much.

[RailRider]

Well we dont want The Beast to destroy itself or the public. I for one want it around another 30 years.

Trims are a necessary evil...

[The Beast Rider]

^

I agree with that, to a point. I personally think that they are over-doing the trims. But, it is not my call. If it was, we would not be having a conversation about trim brakes. The conversation would be more like "what's a trim brake?"

[Cory Butcher]

^

I agree with that, to a point. I personally think that they are over-doing the trims. But, it is not my call. If it was, we would not be having a conversation about trim brakes. The conversation would be more like "what's a trim brake?"

And if that were the case, we would have many, many more posts by Interpreter outlining legal claims against the park for Shaken Rider Syndrome, and for Capital expenditures increases year after year to re-track the thing.

I have had many rides on The Beast this and last year, and nearly half of them, I have to wonder why I rode in the first place. It has good days and bad days it seems. I would hate to be there on a bad day without trims, thankfully in all probability, they will forever be there!

Oh yeah, anyone here actually "like" riding Blue Racer back seat this year?? I am fairly certain Beast would be about like it after a trimless year, though I admittedly have no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up, just my knowledge of the general forces associated with a high speed wooden roller coaster attraction, and the stresses created by that force over time.

[Beast1979]

^

I agree with that, to a point. I personally think that they are over-doing the trims. But, it is not my call. If it was, we would not be having a conversation about trim brakes. The conversation would be more like "what's a trim brake?"

And then it be:

"Why does that ride send me into a Coma?"

then:

"Why is that ride always closed for maininence?"

Then:

"Why did they Remove that ride?"

Catch my Drift?

[Kris_2009]

They stop FOF up top because it was coming in too far when it hit the return tunnel. Plus it makes it slower and not as rough on the way back down.

And The Beast has always had trim brakes on the way down the first hill and in the "brake shed". When it was first opened it used skis that popped up and slowed it down. Now they use magnetic brakes.

[Jasper]

When you ride The Beast at night it feels like it has no trim brakes ill tell you that much.

[Gordon Bombay]

They stop FOF up top because it was coming in too far when it hit the return tunnel.

Oh, so it was coming too far into the "return tunnel" for 10 years before they changed it?

[Kris_2009]

They stop FOF up top because it was coming in too far when it hit the return tunnel.

Oh, so it was coming too far into the "return tunnel" for 10 years before they changed it?

Thats what the maintenance guy said when i asked him. Plus i think they are going try and get a third train on, stopping the train up top gives more time.

[Discodude3737]

Three trains on FoF would accomplish nothing. If the seatbelts were not present it would be beneficial, but with the amount of time it takes to get half the train to realize they are sitting on a seatbelt that hooks onto the side of the lapbar it is nearly impossible to speed up loading times.

[Kris_2009]

Three trains on FoF would accomplish nothing. If the seatbelts were not present it would be beneficial, but with the amount of time it takes to get half the train to realize they are sitting on a seatbelt that hooks onto the side of the lapbar it is nearly impossible to speed up loading times.

It would, I would know i work there. When the train launches usually people are about half unloaded. If there were trains in the waiting brakes capacity would be higher we could bring that train right in. Although I'd rather not have it for obvious reasons.

[FOFreak]

Kris, you work on FOF! You are officially my new best friend, sorry Terpy!

_{Can you get me free passes? I won't tell anyone!}

[Discodude3737]

Could you then explain why the park made the decision to take off two of the original four trains?

[Cory Butcher]

Three trains on FoF would accomplish nothing. If the seatbelts were not present it would be beneficial, but with the amount of time it takes to get half the train to realize they are sitting on a seatbelt that hooks onto the side of the lapbar it is nearly impossible to speed up loading times.

It would, I would know i work there. When the train launches usually people are about half unloaded. If there were trains in the waiting brakes capacity would be higher we could bring that train right in. Although I'd rather not have it for obvious reasons.

Actually I am pretty sure that just means that you would have a fully loaded train in the brake run before Unload, and a train half unloaded in the unload area. The Train would load and launch, then you would wait to bring in the train that is mostly unloaded, the train sitting in the brake run to unload would move into unload, take about the same time to unload as load, only after Unload is clear to accept a train. Meanwhile, you have that third train steaming towards the finish, and guess what...it just ends up sitting in the waiting brakes full...and stacked.

Three trains may have been possible with OTSR's when extra time to buckle belts was not present. But now due to the timing of loading, not gonna happen. Two trains may be under what capacity could be, but three trains would not be able to sustain one in the course and two in load/unload for very long.

If it helped capacity more than the additional maintenance costs of more cycles, the park would have made the correction in the last ten years. They haven't.

[Kris_2009]

No, There is a waiting area after unload and before the loading station. The train launches the waiting brake train then comes in and loads. Then the Unload train goes into the waiting brakes. And there you go. Before you launched the train you would make sure the return tunnel was clear so it wouldn't stop up in the block brakes. When we have just one person checking full train on the "driver's" side the train at unload is unloaded and is sent into waiting before the train launches.

O and if you ever ride Flight of Fear PLEASE buckle your seat belt. Or at least find it

[Kris_2009]

Kris, you work on FOF! You are officially my new best friend, sorry Terpy!

_{Can you get me free passes? I won't tell anyone!}

Ha ha do you really think an associate could give you free passes?

Send me a PM i will hook you up

[Gordon Bombay]

No, There is a waiting area after unload and before the loading station. The train launches the waiting brake train then comes in and loads. Then the Unload train goes into the waiting brakes. And there you go. Before you launched the train you would make sure the return tunnel was clear so it wouldn't stop up in the block brakes. When we have just one person checking full train on the "driver's" side the train at unload is unloaded and is sent into waiting before the train launches.

Hi, I suggest reading what discodude said, if running the third train would be beneficial to capacity then they probably would have done it some time over the past 12 years the ride has operated. The ride was designed and first ran with four trains and soon after it was found that this hurt capacity more than it helped and the ride was reduced to two trains with hardly any difference in capacity. Later the ride received three new trains that feature individual racheting lap bars paired with seat belts as a secondary restraint. The park chose to only run two because once again, it was found that running more than two trains was hardly beneficial to the capacity of the ride, so today while two make runs on the track all season, one sits back in maintenance being refurbished and overhauled and the next season is swapped out with one of the trains that ran the previous season.

O and if you ever ride Flight of Fear PLEASE buckle your seat belt. Or at least find it

An example of why a third train would not benefit the capacity of this ride. You said it yourself that there is usually a train in the brakes on the turnaround between the station that sits there before the train ahead of it launches, so what good would it do to have a train behind that one in the unload area sitting empty? There would just be an extra empty train on the track with no increase in capacity.

[The Interpreter]

Not to mention that if the ride still had OTSR's:

* It wouldn't have nearly the lines it does now, and more capacity would not be needed...(removing those OTSR's improved the ride experience by, oh, about 1000%, in my and many others' opinions)

* Now, just like Vortex, it would also have seatbelts attached to the OTSR's. Fewer people would have difficulty finding them and attaching them, but some still would.

[The Beast Rider]

^

I agree with that, to a point. I personally think that they are over-doing the trims. But, it is not my call. If it was, we would not be having a conversation about trim brakes. The conversation would be more like "what's a trim brake?"

And if that were the case, we would have many, many more posts by Interpreter outlining legal claims against the park for Shaken Rider Syndrome, and for Capital expenditures increases year after year to re-track the thing.

I have had many rides on The Beast this and last year, and nearly half of them, I have to wonder why I rode in the first place. It has good days and bad days it seems. I would hate to be there on a bad day without trims, thankfully in all probability, they will forever be there!

Oh yeah, anyone here actually "like" riding Blue Racer back seat this year?? I am fairly certain Beast would be about like it after a trimless year, though I admittedly have no evidence whatsoever to back that claim up, just my knowledge of the general forces associated with a high speed wooden roller coaster attraction, and the stresses created by that force over time.

Yes, I do "like" riding Blue Racer. Actually, I thoroughly enjoy it. Admittedly, I don't ride in the very back seat, but only one seat forward (not over the rear wheel). At KIC day during the ERT, I rode in that very seat for nine rides, without ever moving. A couple of rides, they did not even unlock the lap bars. It was a blast!!

Beast1979, I see that you must really like Cedar Point. What do you think of Mean Streak?