DropZone99 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 My Beast rides this season have been pretty good, very smooth because of the retracking. But like everyone else is saying, it's so slow now that Beast isn't a thrill ride. They might as well rename Beast, Beastie. I just hate how Cedar Fair is always saying "Were doing this to bring back the nostalgic Kings Island." Well if they want the park to be so nostalgic, than why don't they remove some of the trims on Beast so it's fun and a thrill. And also, I hate how CF is trying to make everything nostalgic. They fail at it so bad. Racer being only frontwards, although that is how it originally was, the majority of the guests always rode Racer as frontwards and backwards. I know they are just using the whole nostalgic thing as an excuse to spend less money on maintenance, but KI's wood coaster maintenance team is really excellent, and I know could handle keeping Racer backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Coundown until Terpy or someone else brings up the PTC issue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 I wish that PTC mandates that all coasters running their trains must have their trims removed........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeastCanyon Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 No. It is horrible with trims, in my opinion. It ruins the final helixes for me.. so, you've never liked The Beast? how sad. It's fun at night, I like the terrain, but Voyage blows it out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Tee Hee: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 WIN! WIN! Techincally, Racer was not designed with trims... hmm! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Tee Hee: OH NO NO NO!!! YOU'RE GONNA BURN IT DOWN (The WHOLE ride) YOU IDIOT!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 The Beast has pretreated wood. It won't burn. Neither will steel, unless of course a certain enthusiast group poured kerosene on them...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 The Beast is built of pre-treated wood? Who knew? Here all these years I thought it had to be stained to protect the wood from which it was built. Silly me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Whoops. You're right. Either way, it won't burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 20, 2009 Share Posted September 20, 2009 Oh, really? All too many wooden coasters HAVE burned, including perhaps most recently an incident about a decade ago when the lifthill on Camden Park's Big Dipper caught fire. It was, fortunately, extinguished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Hey, even at Cedar Point a blue streak has lit up the sky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 may i say one thing and i do not mean to start controversy here but here we go...... why complain about a certain ride if we can not do anything about it. If we as a group are so against the current ride on Beast ( I did not make it to the park this year but last year, to me, it felt like the same Beast) then get a petition together and write a letter to the park managers and also ceder fair managers. If we do this maybe they could give us an answer to why the trims have been added to the ride. Realistically the trims seem to be added to save money for the park and also to ensure the ride is around much longer for more guests. (I am sorry for the following statement and mean it not at anyone in general) It seems on this board more people are concerned about their personal rides and have yet reached the maturity level needed to understand business decisions. On this ride or SOB it seems people think it is easy and cheap to keep a ride up and operating, where in reality Ceder Fair is an entertainment company set on trying to be in the black versus the red. If that means they put trims on a ride to have cheaper ride costs, then so be it. If it means my entry fee is slightly lower because of this great. I feel we have all missed the point of going to a park to enjoy the rides as they are. Sometimes we get caught up in blaming someone else or wishing it was something else. Go to the park to enjoy yourself, enjoy a ride on the longest wooden roller coaster, built over 30 years ago. Do not dwell on the negatives it will make your ride much more enjoyable. As time goes more and more things will be added and taken away due to safety concerns or maintenance and one years ride will never match another but dont dwell on it my friends. Enjoy what we have and if you dont like it then dont ride it. Sure feel free to reminiscence about the good ol days but currently we have what we have and only being angry ruins your enjoyment. I am sorry if I have offended anyone and I know I will be attacked for this but for just a moment mature slightly and think that the park is not their for your entertainment only. (This goes for all rides not just Beast) If you have a serious problem find a constructive way to bring the issue to light with management and not just posting on a message board. Thanks for reading and I am sure I will get flamed for this..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Cedar Fair LOVES useless trims. There is very little reason for the trims on Diamondback, Son of Beast, Vortex, The Beast, The Racer, Fairly Odd Coaster, and Flight of Fear. Nearly all of them can run without them (possibly with the exception of The Beast). In fact, many of them have run without trims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 One can also drive a car at 140 miles an hour on the Interstate. Doing so will greatly increase your insurance bill...and that's all, if you are lucky. This is not an analogy I make lightly. There are reasons the company runs its parks as it does. And no petition or nice request is likely to change those reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Cedar Fair LOVES useless trims. There is absolutely no reason for the trims on Diamondback, Son of Beast, Vortex, The Beast, The Racer, Fairly Odd Coaster, and Flight of Fear. All of them can run without them (possibly with the exception of The Beast). In fact, many of them have run without trims. THE. TRIMS. ARE. POINTLESS. So you are saying the trims serve no point in lowering maintenance costs by slowing the trains down? Or are they pointless to you? You say they they can run with out them, and yes they have done so in the past, but how much work was needed to keep them (the rides) running? Do the rides consider less daily work because of these trims? Has anyone thought that maybe the trims are added this year to see how much work and money could be saved? Possibly as a test run? (and no they dont have to inform the general park that they are doing this---answered the question before it gets asked.... go me) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 One can also drive a car at 140 miles an hour on the Interstate. Doing so will greatly increase your insurance bill...and that's all, if you are lucky. This is not an analogy I make lightly. There are reasons the company runs its parks as it does. And no petition or nice request is likely to change those reasons. TerP I understand that, thats why I was making my point. Complaining on here about the usefulness or uselessness of trims does not change the way a park operates, for insurance or financial reasons. I am just saying lets enjoy what we have and not complain about the little issues..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I, for one, absolutely agree with CedarPointer. Cedar Fair always has had an obsession with trim brakes. It has nothing to do with maturity level, or the ability to understand a business decision. Yes, sometimes a trim brake is a necessary evil (never though you'd hear me say that did you?). However, when you put four sets of trim brakes on one coaster it might be a just little excessive, especially since the first two drops are trimmed. It is a lot of fun without the trims too, but it has been an awfully long time since that happened last. Diamondback is a brand new coaster, and it gets trimmed in not one but two different locations. Flight of Fear completely stops, which I have heard countless people on the ride ask why did we stop. The trim on Racer and Fairly Odd Coaster? Give me a break. Son of Beast gets trimmed in the midcourse, and why? The last half of the ride is slow enough. It's much more enjoyable without being trimmed. Vortex, I'm not too sure even I would like that completely trimless. I would like to try it once then decide. OK? There is no doubt that it takes a considerable amount of money to maintain these rides. But, maintenance is also a cost of doing business. Slowing your star coaster to 7MPH in the brake shed is just a little silly. Now, you do have a very valid argument for enjoying what we have. At least we can still ride all these coasters, even if they are trimmed. We should be thankful for that. All the coasters at Kings Island still give good rides, and I am happy every time I get to go for a ride on one. If you hear someone swearing at the trims as the train hits it, it's probably me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rcfreak339 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 ^Theres a trim on Racer?!? Iv'e never felt it before....But The Beast is trimmed to much. I know some are necessary but some are not like the one coming out of the first tunnel isn't nor should the train stop so hard during the mid course. I hardly ever feel the trims on the 1st hill or 2nd hill though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CedarPointer Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 So you are saying the trims serve no point in lowering maintenance costs by slowing the trains down? Or are they pointless to you? You say they they can run with out them, and yes they have done so in the past, but how much work was needed to keep them (the rides) running? Do the rides consider less daily work because of these trims? No, I'm saying that CF could EASILY save money in different ways- for example, what purpose do the LCD TVs in Jukebox Diner serve? They cost more than a normal menu board. Why did we need a new Test Your Strength game when there already was one? That cost money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 If I were the big guy in charge and it was my decision, a few extra nickels for insurance would be worth it to be able to run my coasters at the speed they're supposed to. Cedar Fair's obsessive need to bring every coaster they can to a near stop at some point during the ride is just rediculous. I think the best example would be Flight of Fear. Under Paramount the ride ran with it's trims off, headrests and lap bars, with no problems. Heck, the Six Flags mad cobras don't even HAVE trims on them. So explain to me why it is necessary to bring our Flight of Fear to a stop halfway through? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWildman424 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 One very good reason might be rider safety? Maybe? Even after coming to a complete stop on the MCBR on FOF, some of the turns and transitions are very quick and rough, and I am ready for them. Imagine someone who has never experienced FOF before. Someone could very easily get whiplash on that ride even after coming to a complete stop. For the first year I considered myself a coaster enthusiast, I wanted every trim removed from every ride created. Now that I have "grown up" and actually considered what that would mean for the ride experience, I say that they are fine the way they are. I have never come across a trim that I have felt was unnecessary. Whether it is for the ride experience, or maintainance reasons, if you would just look at it from Cedar Fair's point of view, you might understand why they are there. Many people claim that Cedar Fair has an obsession with trims. Trims are there for safety purposes. Therefore, you are saying that Cedar Fair is obsessed with safety, and I'm ok with that. No, I'm saying that CF could EASILY save money in different ways- for example, what purpose do the LCD TVs in Jukebox Diner serve? They cost more than a normal menu board. Why did we need a new Test Your Strength game when there already was one? That cost money. Are you saying that you don't ever want KI to upgrade anything? While they do cost money, its not money that would go to rides regardless of how it was spent. Different departments get different budgets, and its up to those departments to spend the money wisely. If they think that nice new menu TV's wil bring in a few more people, that's their choice, and if it succeeds, those TV's will have paid for themselves in a matter of days. (especially at 20 bucks a person) Since someone might bring it up, if the new test your strength game was not bought, that money would have gone to something else in the Games department. Just sayin' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Beast I am guessing its more than just saving a few nickles on the insurance that keeps the trims on the rides...... Now if I remember there was always a MCBR on FoF since it started back in the days of Paramount. As I was your age or so when it opened I remember that the ride came to an almost stop at that point ever since it started. Now they may have turned them off at some point and turned it back on but they were there I believe since the begining. Saving money in one area does not allow more money to go to another area. Think of all the parks CederFair owns and how much money it costs to maintain insurance and ride safety...... Again enjoy the rides, as you get older you will realize the safety issues...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 ^^ There are clones to our Flight of Fear out there that do not even have brakes in the mid-course, let alone use them. Jokers Jinx comes to mind for one. So rider safety is obviously not an issue, or any coaster that is the same as FOF would also be stopped in the midcourse. FOF did not stop in the midcourse during Paramount days, even with the OTSRs that were known for knocking peoples ears off. Shark, it has nothing to do with being older, wiser, or anything like that. It is all about where your priorities lie. My take on the situation is the same as Beast1979, even though I am more than twice his age. It might cost a little more to run the coasters AS DESIGNED, but that is the way they are supposed to be. Beast has always had the trims since it was open to the public, but I'm not convinced that it was designed that way, as they were installed after testing. RCFreak, yes there is a trim on Racer. It is at the front of the turn around, right at the top of the hill. A completely pointless trim, no less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Two things: * The Six Flags Flight of Fear near clones have two important differences. First, they are outdoors, so riders can see what is going to happen to them next, sort of. Second, they operate only two trains each, and were only designed to run two trains. * The liability environment is far different than it was when many of the coasters in parks were installed. There are very interesting differences in how coasters are operated in the USA as opposed to most of the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Rider Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 I understand. But, the layout is identical. Our FOF only runs two trains, even though it was designed for three. The midcourse should be used for its intended purpose, and not a standing trim brake. I must say, Cedar Fair has a nasty habit of using all their midcourse brakes as trims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rcfreak339 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 ^But are the clones as jerky and rough as Flight of Fear? The last time I rode Flight of Fear I was grateful they stopped us on the mid-course. It was god awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shark6495 Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 now before I get too much into an argument with people... are we both talking about the same point when FoF stops... about mid way through before it turns left..... beast rider it was not an attack on being older and wiser but being mature... maturity happens at different points. Some rides are not designed to run the way they do but because of design flaws or miscalculations have to be changed. It happens all the time. Its not to cut back the fun. By your argument SOB was designed to have the loop and use heavy trains but we saw what happened to that right when it was run the way it was designed. My main point of argument was this, and I will use caps so the skimmers will see this park.... BE MATURE AND ENJOY THE RIDES WE HAVE. COMPLAINING DOES NOTHING BUT MAKE YOUR RIDE, AND THOSE AROUND YOU, WORSE.... that will get some attention. CF may enjoy trims but their rides run safe and odds are cheaper because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingCobra Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Cedar Fair LOVES useless trims. There is very little reason for the trims on Diamondback, Son of Beast, Vortex, The Beast, The Racer, Fairly Odd Coaster, and Flight of Fear. Nearly all of them can run without them (possibly with the exception of The Beast). In fact, many of them have run without trims. Where I will give you where it does seem that alot of Cedar Fair coasters are trimmed, also look at the other side of the coin. Millennium Force, it has run without trims since it opened in 2000, and if i remember right it does even have a spot before the last overbank where trims could be added and still havent. With trim brakes as a whole, on The Beast especially, im not so sure that I would even want to ride it trimless. The brake shed without a trim there would make that right hand turn rough and tear up the track/train with the added wear and tear. Like its been said previously, I really doubt that the trims are just added for giggles, but are to preserve the respective rides for a long time. Which is better a coaster that has a trim here and there and is open almost all the time or a coaster that is trimless and is less reliable to be open because of more work maitnence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McSalsa Posted September 21, 2009 Share Posted September 21, 2009 Whoops. You're right. Either way, it won't burn. (Breathes huge sigh of relief) PHEW. Well, that's good to know. (Notices someone trying to set Son of Beast on fire with matches) Uhh, that's not going to work dudes! PS: As for the trim brakes, it depends what kind of trims you are calling for...if it is to slow a coaster so it can do a loop/corkscrew/helix without excessive G forces, then fine. But if it's just to save a few pennies on maintenence...those I call bull. Though I actually thought stopping on Flight of Fear ADDED to the ride experience, because if I remember correctly, they played a sound effect when it happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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