The Interpreter Posted January 15, 2011 Author Share Posted January 15, 2011 From Mr. Healey of USAToday: ...Environmental awareness and rising fuel prices: "$4 (per gallon) is a very safe bet" by 2012, Hwang says. Others even predict $5 gas by then. The record to date is the $4.11 national average set July 17, 2008, according to the AAA motorists group... There is a "total disconnect" between what the government is mandating and what customers want to buy, says Mike Jackson, CEO of AutoNation, the country's largest car-dealer chain. Small cars won't sell unless gas prices rise, he says. The fastest way to do that would be for the government to raise gas prices with a tax, he says, but that seems a political impossibility. So Jackson joked that he's looking to the oil cartel — the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries that supplies a significant portion of U.S. oil needs — to save the automakers and dealers: "I'm praying OPEC finds a way to screw us. Gas prices will go up and we'll be fine." http://www.usatoday...._N.htm?csp=cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted January 15, 2011 Share Posted January 15, 2011 When gas hits $5/gallon, I will throw in the towel. I am barely ekking by now. At that point, it is no longer worth it to work or try-and I will be stepping off the hamster wheel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 ...Those we spoke with say that if gas prices don't start coming down soon, vacations and even trips to the movies won't be an option for them anymore.... http://www.wvnstv.co...y&storyid=92752 What about trips to amusement parks in Ohio? (It's actually cheaper to fly round trip to Orlando than it is to drive to Cedar Point for many people...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 ...GM says gas prices could top $4 a gallon this year.... ...The average vehicle on the road is more than 10 years old, according to consumer marketing researcher R.L. Polk.... ...Even as unemployment begins to fall, people still have less disposable income.U.S. Labor Department data show that 36% of workers who lost one job between 2007 and 2009 and found another one are earning at least 20% less.... http://www.freep.com...ate=fullarticleI cannot see how this cannot affect discretionary spending items, like trips to amusement parks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I haven't been to the movies since Gran Torino was released-before that, I couldn't tell you when I went last. My trips are limited to work and home now. My boss' wife just had her hours cut-boss is stressed out. My health plan has gone to hell, and meanwhile, so has everything else. Going to an amusement park or anything for that matter is the last thing on my mind. So yeah, I think this is going to be another tough year. I wanted to go to Wonderland this summer, but its looking like that won't happen. But hey, I might be able to get up there, but not afford the trip back. Wouldn't that be interesting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 The American Driver. Okay, folks, buckle those chin straps because the Era of Cheap Gasoline is officially over (in case there was any doubt). Courtesy of the tinderbox in the Middle East $4.00 per gallon will be the new bottom and we could very well be looking at $5.00 per gallon before Memorial Day. This just in: it's gonna be a Super Tanker of Not Good.... http://www.autoextre.../on-the-table1/ If this be true, what will happen to FUN and SIX attendance this summer? Up? Down? And per caps? More and more money into the gas tank must mean less and less available for other things, including frivolity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 I think if gas hits it this summer, it will be different than in '08. So many people have held on their cars and paid them off (leaving more money for gas), or have since purchased more fuel efficient transportation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Really? $5 a gallon? That is $1.60 more per gallon than the current price of gas. (And my car, with its 18 gallon tank means if I fill up at 15 gallons, that`s an extra $22.50 per fill up. Multiply it by at least two fill ups a month, and that is an additional $45 a month, or $540 a year! Yes, it may not reach $5 this year. But play along for a bit. $540 is a sizeable amount. Just think how many Kings Island passes that could buy. Unfortunately, driving is a fact of life in cities like Cincinnati, where there is not a good public transportation service (outside of Metro). If people have to choose between paying for gas to get to and from work and buying a season pass to Kings Island, guess which one they are going to choose? Not to mention the increased gas prices will have a ripple down affect as it means the cost of transporting goods will rise, which means that almost everything else will increase in price too. How far off are those electric and hydrogen cars? If gas prices do go that high, you will likely see a bigger push for these types of eco friendly cars to go main stream sooner rather than later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Not to mention the increased gas prices will have a ripple down affect as it means the cost of transporting goods will rise, which means that almost everything else will increase in price too. How far off are those electric and hydrogen cars? If gas prices do go that high, you will likely see a bigger push for these types of eco friendly cars to go main stream sooner rather than later. I think that is what most overlook in the price increase and that is beyond their own gas refill but in truth even if you drive the most economical vehicle you will pay a huge price for everything. I own a transportation business and I fill my tank of 31 gallons every day and a half, another driver of mine fills her tank twice a day. We are passing the cost on. As far as for the push for eco friendly cars; well we can push and wish all day but we are not there yet and not even close for many years to come. To top that off there is no shortage of oil, just obstacles to get it, so i venture to say there will be a major push back on the obstacles into regular oil production first followed by the push for the eco friendly vehicles. I mean how on earth are the folks who live in the city and park in the streets going to charge up? This crises is a man made event and not a natural one. Just one more babling thought I wonder if OPEC will hold up during these times and with all the turmoil. If OPEC goes so do the high prices for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Yes, the infrastructure is not there yet for these new cars. Not to mention that some of them have very restrictive limitations. I mean, the electric Ford Focus can only drive about 80 to 100 miles on one charge. That is not a great deal of miles, considering for me to get from my house to the office down town and back home (round trip), is about 35 miles, I could realistically only get two trips in before needing to recharge the car. And then there is the whole other issue of needing special equipment at home to charge it. And I wouldn`t place all of the blame on just OPEC either. We have oil reserves in this country which could be tapped too. But environmentalists have stopped most of them from being tapped. And yes, the incident with the BP oil rig in the gulf was devastating to the environment. But we should not place the fate of our economy (and yes, gas prices play a big impact on the economy, especially one that is recovering from a big recession), in the hands of foreign countries that control most of our oil supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avatar Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Oh I don't blame OPEC much other than the monopoly they try to maintain, I place blame at our own feet. We are more intelligent as a country than ever but some how we play dumb here or are we. What I was saying about OPEC is a OPEC nation falls to the people those people are demanding a bigger piece of the pie and they will need to produce more oil and not be limited to OPEC's limits. Other countries in the OPEC program will feel the pressure of losing business and revenue to the first country to break away and they all rush to lower their price and raise their limits if China and US will guarantee price and numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/26/opinion/26friedman.html That is an article we read in school last week. It echos some of the things that have already been said: ....finally, Beijing just announced that it was providing $15 billion in seed money for the country’s leading auto and battery companies to create an electric car industry, starting in 20 pilot cities. In essence, China Inc. just named its dream team of 16-state-owned enterprises to move China off oil and into the next industrial growth engine: electric cars......the auto industry was the foundation for America’s manufacturing middle class. Second, the country that replaces gasoline-powered vehicles with electric-powered vehicles — in an age of steadily rising oil prices and steadily falling battery prices — will have a huge cost advantage and independence from imported oil... Yes, the infrastructure is not there yet for these new cars. Not to mention that some of them have very restrictive limitations. I mean, the electric Ford Focus can only drive about 80 to 100 miles on one charge. That is not a great deal of miles, considering for me to get from my house to the office down town and back home (round trip), is about 35 miles, I could realistically only get two trips in before needing to recharge the car. And then there is the whole other issue of needing special equipment at home to charge it.... How much electricity would it take to charge one of these cars? Sure it could be cheaper to use electricity, but HOW MUCH cheaper is it to charge a car to run 100 miles vs. buying enough gas to drive 100 miles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 27, 2011 Author Share Posted February 27, 2011 Provided that the electricity is available (we are right at capacity in quite a bit of this country at times), about 88 cents for the electric car (in normal weather conditions....electric vehicles go FAR less distance on the same power as the temperature declines), compared to about $14 for the gasoline powered car. Of course, rates differ for both gasoline and electricity, and your mileage may vary. There are other costs that differ on both sides of the equation. The electric vehicle will not need oil changes or filters, but will need what are currently very expensive battery replacements over time. And compared to the tripe a lot of environmentalists like to put out, electric vehicles are NOT zero emissions. One must factor in the pollution generated in making the vehicles, in making the electricity they consume and in the ultimate disposal of the batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersRZ Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 And in most areas, Cincinnati included, most electricity is generated by coal, which is a non-renewable resource as well, and can be dirty to turn into electricity. One difference is, that coal is readily available in this country, so we would not be relying on foreign oil. Another option for charging electric cars, would be to charge them at night, when there is less demand for electricity. Most utility companies also offer lower rates in the evening hours for electric consumption. And since we are on the subject of pollution, concrete is one of the dirtiest building products, in terms of pollution, to manufacture. The cement making process is high in pollution output. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan73 Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 Really? $5 a gallon? That is $1.60 more per gallon than the current price of gas. (And my car, with its 18 gallon tank means if I fill up at 15 gallons, that`s an extra $22.50 per fill up. Multiply it by at least two fill ups a month, and that is an additional $45 a month, or $540 a year! Yes, it may not reach $5 this year. But play along for a bit. $540 is a sizeable amount. Just think how many Kings Island passes that could buy. Unfortunately, driving is a fact of life in cities like Cincinnati, where there is not a good public transportation service (outside of Metro). If people have to choose between paying for gas to get to and from work and buying a season pass to Kings Island, guess which one they are going to choose? Not to mention the increased gas prices will have a ripple down affect as it means the cost of transporting goods will rise, which means that almost everything else will increase in price too. How far off are those electric and hydrogen cars? If gas prices do go that high, you will likely see a bigger push for these types of eco friendly cars to go main stream sooner rather than later. It's been mentioned on here countless times that season pass holders aren't the true money makers for the park. So, it must be the family that visits once or twice a year. Will the extra gas cost keep them from making that trip? I'm sure it's a question any park management would love to know the answer to ahead of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 27, 2011 Share Posted February 27, 2011 When gas hits $5, we're going to have bigger problems than trips to an amusement park. Honestly, all I do is drive to work and home, and provide my daughter with transportation to her job. I am guessing my gas bill runs almost $200 per month. Granted I drive one of those awful suv's, but I had no choice-my little Honda was literally coming apart on the road-which it did in Cleveland a few years ago. (Saved by a bungee cord). Granted, I would love to have an electric or hybrid car, but even with as much as I spend in gas, the cost of increased insurance, and purchasing the car is far more expensive than driving the car I have now. Keeping it going has taken all of my discretionary income and then some. I missed an important family event last night due to the cost of gas. That's something no amount of money can replace. I am mad as hell. I am tired of making these sacrifices and still getting taken to the cleaners by the oil companies. Greed, pure and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 It's hard to avoid political statements in this discussion - but I'll do my best. Gas prices are a big deal to most Americans. I can tell you to the penny how much I spent on gas last year - and the budgeted amount for this year is significantly higher. That money is coming out of somewhere in the budget - this is reality for anyone who drives. I also bought a new car for my wife a couple of months ago, and calculated that the benefit of a hybrid didn't pay off the added cost even at $6 or $7 gas. I will say that I don't blame any individual entity (gas station owners, oil companies, oil futures traders, OPEC, environmentalists, or our government) for gas prices - the market is very complex and the interactions of all these folks and probably several others results in what we pay at the pump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Provided that the electricity is available (we are right at capacity in quite a bit of this country at times), about 88 cents for the electric car (in normal weather conditions....electric vehicles go FAR less distance on the same power as the temperature declines), compared to about $14 for the gasoline powered car. Of course, rates differ for both gasoline and electricity, and your mileage may vary. There are other costs that differ on both sides of the equation. The electric vehicle will not need oil changes or filters, but will need what are currently very expensive battery replacements over time. And compared to the tripe a lot of environmentalists like to put out, electric vehicles are NOT zero emissions. One must factor in the pollution generated in making the vehicles, in making the electricity they consume and in the ultimate disposal of the batteries. But if we are just talking about base cost (which is what most of this topic seems to be about), then electric cars truly save tons of money. If someone drives 10,000 miles per year, they would spend roughly $100 on charging the electric car vs $1400 on gas (based on the numbers you provided, not counting variances in temperature, gas rates or electric rates). I find it hard to imagine that the batteries for electric cars would come close to closing that price gap, and I also doubt electric prices would increase THAT much due to a demand hike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 You must also remember initial cost. At this point, electric vehicles are very expensive, even taking into account the current tax incentives involved in purchasing one...And yes, current battery replacement costs are in the neighborhood of several thousand, perhaps up to ten thousand dollars...electric vehicles do not use lead acid batteries found in gasoline vehicles, and there are many more batteries, not just one (Volt's battery pack is composed of 161 components, for example)... Volt also comes with a very long warranty on the battery pack, 8 years/1oo,ooo miles, in an attempt to allay these concerns: http://www.autoweek....GREEN/100719940 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Can someone explain to me how in the **** gas can suddenly jump up 30 cents in one day? If any other industry did that, we'd be facing a judge. I know that wouldn't fly in my field. What honks me off is we've had the technology for several decades for alternative energy, and haven't developed it. And the reason-well, to express my thought on that would break the TOS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 The price of crude is gyrating wildly due to the situation in the Mideast. When the cost of the crude necessary to refine oil goes up dramatically, the cost of the gasoline will, too. That, I understand. When it falls, though, it does not fall anywhere near as rapidly at retail. Most in the industry will tell you retailers make the most money as the cost of the product is falling, not rising.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 This is true. I understand the situation right now, but it is almost as if it was orchestrated. Remember when they predicted this a few weeks ago? Makes ya wonder.... I still don't understand even in times of peace how they can get away with the gouging. How much worse is the situation over there going to get to rise to $5 per gallon? That thought scares me a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 You must also remember initial cost. At this point, electric vehicles are very expensive, even taking into account the current tax incentives involved in purchasing one...And yes, current battery replacement costs are in the neighborhood of several thousand, perhaps up to ten thousand dollars...electric vehicles do not use lead acid batteries found in gasoline vehicles, and there are many more batteries, not just one (Volt's battery pack is composed of 161 components, for example)...Volt also comes with a very long warranty on the battery pack, 8 years/1oo,ooo miles, in an attempt to allay these concerns: http://www.autoweek....GREEN/100719940 Okay I DEFINITELY stand corrected on the price of batteries. I guess that's what I get for assuming and not looking something up real quick And I was aware of the initial purchase price being a lot higher...but was sorta ignoring that at the time I posted that :/ Maybe, hopefully, that price will go down in the future when the technologies become more readily available and there is more interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 ^^Okay I DEFINITELY stand corrected on the price of batteries. I guess that's what I get for assuming and not looking something up real quick And I was aware of the initial purchase price being a lot higher...but was sorta ignoring that at the time I posted that :/ Maybe, hopefully, that price will go down in the future when the technologies become more readily available and there is more interest. Believe me, that is a large deterrent for me getting one. I wanted to trade my silverado in when the insight came out. Being new technology, I didn't want to be the guinea pig on that one. I tell ya though, I was in a position to buy one then and in hindsight, wish I had. As much as I've spent on the scooby this year, it almost equals out. When it dies, I'm going back to Honda. The body may fall apart, but the engines run forever-with very little maintenance. My little Honda is now in Florida, and even though it was in an accident in December, it still runs. Unbelievable. Back on topic, I would love to switch to a bike or motorcycle. I don't believe in this day and age that is a safe option for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Not to mention the increased gas prices will have a ripple down affect as it means the cost of transporting goods will rise, which means that almost everything else will increase in price too. How far off are those electric and hydrogen cars? If gas prices do go that high, you will likely see a bigger push for these types of eco friendly cars to go main stream sooner rather than later. I think that is what most overlook in the price increase and that is beyond their own gas refill but in truth even if you drive the most economical vehicle you will pay a huge price for everything. I own a transportation business and I fill my tank of 31 gallons every day and a half, another driver of mine fills her tank twice a day. We are passing the cost on. As far as for the push for eco friendly cars; well we can push and wish all day but we are not there yet and not even close for many years to come. To top that off there is no shortage of oil, just obstacles to get it, so i venture to say there will be a major push back on the obstacles into regular oil production first followed by the push for the eco friendly vehicles. I mean how on earth are the folks who live in the city and park in the streets going to charge up? This crises is a man made event and not a natural one. Just one more babling thought I wonder if OPEC will hold up during these times and with all the turmoil. If OPEC goes so do the high prices for a while. Exactly. The plan is to get the price as high as possible before the oil companies tap into the American oil fields. Then drill within the U.S. at a slow rate that will keep the price high and maximize the profits for the oil companies at the expense of the people! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Picard Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I need to look in to how they are going to heat them electric vehicles for the winter months. I think the best fix for now is cng vehicles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 I need to look in to how they are going to heat them electric vehicles for the winter months. I think the best fix for now is cng vehicles. Cng? Explain.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Electric vehicles have electric resistance heating, and it greatly reduces range. So much so that Warren Brown of the Washington Post kept his at 32 degrees inside and still had greatly reduced range. Heat it up to 70 and find your range reduced by up to 80 percent. He also wondered aloud about what would happen with a pure electric vehicle, like the Nissan Leaf, in a five hour traffic jam during a blizzard...out of power, no hear and disabled...At least Volt has a backup gasoline engine, Leaf does not. CNG is compressed natural gas. Been around for quite some time. Even some older Tauri ran on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windshawne Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Electric vehicles have electric resistance heating, and it greatly reduces range. So much so that Warren Brown of the Washington Post kept his at 32 degrees inside and still had greatly reduced range. Heat it up to 70 and find your range reduced by up to 80 percent. He also wondered aloud about what would happen with a pure electric vehicle, like the Nissan Leaf, in a five hour traffic jam during a blizzard...out of power, no hear and disabled...At least Volt has a backup gasoline engine, Leaf does not. CNG is compressed natural gas. Been around for quite some time. Even some older Tauri ran on it. Electric vehicles only make sense in California, where you can plug into a lot of public places-but don't go in the desert. I wondered about the cost comparison on natural gas since I know of one city that runs their gov vehicles on it. Also, what about emissions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 CNG vehicles are virtually emission free. And California has very, very serious electrical capacity issues. Remember the rotating brown-outs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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