WooferBearATL Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 and i seriously hope you're being sarcastic here... That is sarcasim. I think that Italian Jobber is a standing tribute to the damage that Paramount did to Kings Island. I almost hope that CF keeps it that way as a reminder of what we should never allow the park to come to again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Cedar Fair has many such monuments of its own at places like Knott's Berry Farm, Dorney Park, etc. One can only hope they have learned from their mistakes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkitrumpet08 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 has anyone ever ridden the italian job and found that they liked it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I like the ride as such. I do NOT like the placement, the theming or the overselling of the experience by the former park marketing people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkitrumpet08 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikewhy Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I would not expect much from Cedar Fair when it comes to theming. They may do some interesting things in terms of ride signs, colors, and naming, but it rarely goes beyond that. The reason is simple. Dick Kinzel, who runs Cedar Fair, once said in an interview a few years ago (I can not find it today if it is still online) that he does not believe a seasonal park can pull off effective theming because it is too expensive. He used Disaster Transport at Cedar Point as an example. He claimed they went all out for that ride in terms of theming and it was still a dud with the public, and therefore it taught him a lesson about theming. I always found this to be odd, because I never did think the theming on Disaster Transport was all that great and even if it was, the ride itself was likely the thing people found underwhelming, not the theming. Still, he clearly stated that he did not believe in theming all that much. So I would not expect much there, unless he has changed his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckeye-Beast Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I like IJ, but I am bitter about what we lost. With all the space Paramount had to work with, they decided to take a central, scenic area and turn into a central disaster area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzarley Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 More Gravel? More Cheap Props? Come On! Italian Jobby has it all! You know, the cheesiness of the theming wouldn't even bother me if they just hadn't placed it in the ABSOLUTE WORST location possible!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniebald57 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The only way theming a ride ever works is if it's done properly. The only way to do it properly is to spend money. Going on the cheap with theming is a waste of money because it doesn't create a totally immersive realistic environment and the riders see right through it. That's why Disaster Transport was a failure. It wasn't because people didn't like theming, it was because the theming was done poorly and on the cheap. A few projectors and some neon painted boxes just doesn't cut it. I'm sure that some park execs think that the ride would have been just fine if it would have stayed Avalanche Run. Italian Job could have been a great themed ride if 1) the track was longer, 2) they enclosed the parking garage section and made it realistic, 3) all the train effects worked, and 4) if they had more set pieces and props. The fact is that PKI didn't spend the money to do that....probably because they don't have that kind of money. Seasonal operations balk at spending tens of millions on themed rides because quite honestly they don't generate the kind of attendance or revenue annually to pay that kind of money. Cedar Fair can dress up landscapes and buildings with the best of them, but they stay out of theming, and it should be that way if they don't want to spend the money Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pkitrumpet08 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 yes, why in the world did they take out such a beautiful ride such as the antique cars and replace it with explosions and racing cars? it really killed that whole location. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 erniebald57, you make some great points...but Paramount had the money to spend on theming, they just chose to spend it elsewhere or to send it back to Blockbuster, Viacom and later CBS as profit, or were told to...Budgets were frequently slashed after an announcement was made...or there were significant cost overruns that caused the theming (a non-essential part of the ride, so they said) and/or landscaping to be cut... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawaiianfish Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I would agree that Cedar Fair has never really risen to Disney quality theming, but I do think they certainly pay attention to it as evidenced by Silver Bullet at Knotts, Xcelerator at Knotts and this year's Maverick at Cedar Point. I would simply like Kings Island to get back to paying attention to being a park with themed lands instead of individual themed rides stuck in odd places. I think a great example is The Beast. The Beast is not an over-the-top Rivertown themed ride, but when the queue was built, Kings Island clearly wanted to make it fit into Rivertown. Contrast this with Tomb Raider that has giant ruins-type rock stuck in Rivertown. You can clearly tell that the powers-that-be completely disregarded the fact that it was in Rivertown. Also, some point to Cedar Point as an example of Cedar Fair not investing a lot in theming over than their Frontier Town. I would like to remind everyone that Cedar Point (to the best of my knowledge) has never marketed itself as a "theme park". Cedar Point has always just been a great amusement park on Lake Erie that happens to have one themed land. Kings Island, on the other hand, has always been sold as a "theme park" from the day it opened in 1972. I think Taft originally even conceived it as a sort of Disneyland of the Midwest. Lastly, I think Dick Kinzel is a smart guy. And I think he realizes that Cedar Point and Kings Island have coexisted just fine for 35 years now. I do not see him making Kings Island into a Cedar Point of southwestern Ohio. I think he understands that Kings Island and Cedar Point have coexisted for 35 years by offering a different experience (and the fact that they are separated by a 4 hour drive). Here's hoping anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fcbaseball Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 I think that the only true section that needs to be completely redone is Action Zone. This area, in my opinion, was designed to be a thrill ride area, but doesn't practically the entire park revolve around the thrill rides? I just hope they find a way to tie in Congo Falls into Top Gun. Other than that, i hope that they just revamp the scenery in all of the other areas. Adding Foliage and maintaing the park is key to this restoration. I hope CF will review the history of the King's Island and take this into account when, hopefully, restoring the theming. What CF must remember is that the guests to King's Island know it as the park that they visited as children (which for me wasn't that long ago but I do believe it was better then than it is now) and that if they can restore the park to its prior grandeur and fill in the park with high quality rides they can make KI a great park that people will frequent because of its family friendly atmosphere AND its innovative, thrilling rides Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoastersNSich Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 Very true, That's how I remember Budweiser and Miller Light....heehaw Speaking of... who wants to go see a baseball game at Miller Lite Stadium in St. Louis next year.... PLEASE READ: http://biz.yahoo.com/bizj/070209/1416218.html?.v=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fan of beast Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 i just wanna ride roller coasters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erniebald57 Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 It's true that with company backing, Paramount could have dropped some serious money into their parks, but the reason they didn't is because they thought that park income wouldn't justify it. Kings Island is open about 5 months out of the year, had no real stake in any hotels, and turns a somewhat modest profit. Despite the fact that PKI's and other parks financial position could have been vastly improved with Viacom's deep pockets and the right leaders, the suits weren't willing to even remotely gamble, and what could have been never happened. The truth is that there will never be theming at KI on the Universal/Disney scale because Cedar Fair does more than fine with the formula they have...which is this 1) Keep the thrills coming, 2)Keep the kids happy, 3)Build hotels, 4)Run a tight ship in operations/maintenance, 5)Merchandising....Merchandising....Merchandising. That formula generates lots of profit for them every year, and it will happen here as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 The truth is that there will never be theming at KI on the Universal/Disney scale because Cedar Fair does more than fine with the formula they have...which is this 1) Keep the thrills coming, 2)Keep the kids happy, 3)Build hotels, 4)Run a tight ship in operations/maintenance, 5)Merchandising....Merchandising....Merchandising. That formula generates lots of profit for them every year, and it will happen here as well. You will note that the formula as you stated does little to nothing in the entertainment area (which is a very large factor in, among other things, what keeps seniors coming to the park with their older pre-teens...). I certainly hope Cedar Fair sees entertainment as more important than that formula, or their past, seems to indicate. It seems like they may now be realizing this. Note, too; that after loudly dropping senior discounts about four years ago, they brought them back, and even greatly increased them. Seniors bring grandkids, and, more importantly, lots of lots of money to spend on them. Also, which part of that formula do you think they are doing at Geauga Lake...besides the obvious one of running a tight ship in operations/maintenance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragerunner Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 It's true that with company backing, Paramount could have dropped some serious money into their parks, but the reason they didn't is because they thought that park income wouldn't justify it. Kings Island is open about 5 months out of the year, had no real stake in any hotels, and turns a somewhat modest profit. Despite the fact that PKI's and other parks financial position could have been vastly improved with Viacom's deep pockets and the right leaders, the suits weren't willing to even remotely gamble, and what could have been never happened. The truth is that there will never be theming at KI on the Universal/Disney scale because Cedar Fair does more than fine with the formula they have...which is this 1) Keep the thrills coming, 2)Keep the kids happy, 3)Build hotels, 4)Run a tight ship in operations/maintenance, 5)Merchandising....Merchandising....Merchandising. That formula generates lots of profit for them every year, and it will happen here as well. I agree that KI will never be themed like Disney or Universal and I am fine with that. But, it could be themed as well as Dollywood, Six Flags Fiesta Texas or Busch Gardens Europe. These parks actually have less attendance than KI and they manage to have incredible rides, great theming (rides and area) and some very good shopping, shows and dining. This is what KI has the potential to be and has many of the pieces already in place. My concern is that CF has show no willingness to create a park like this (up to this point). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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