Shaggy

You know... Fabio got hit with a bird when riding Apollo's Chariot... a Hyper.... by B&M... ;-) And there were a lot of screaming females around him...

Oy Intimidator 305 used the same square cut-outs at the top of the footings as other Intamins. Intamin uses a square cut out to fit the H-shaped insert at the base of the supports. Here's a pic (although a bit hard to see) of an Intimidator 305 footer showing the square cut outs. The footers at KI have diamond/oval shaped cut outs - typical of B&M.

Number of bolts has everything to do with stress on the base of the support, not what manufacturer it is. Round vs Rectangular vs square footings is a moot argument too... manufacturers use many variety of shapes for their footings. The only clue found with footers often lies in the cut-outs on the tops. Intamin and B&M use different "insert" shapes at the base of their supports. B&M requires a diamond/oval shape cut-out at the tops of their footings. The footings being poured for 2014 have diamond-shaped/oval cut outs. As far as the "limited space", the park is still open. And if the coaster will extend over the midways or other attractions - footings will likely not be poured until daily operations end. This project is not necessarily limited to the space that is currently cleared. Provided the coaster is a B&M, the dis-concerting issue is the fact that the Batavia plant does not have supports or track stored outside. However, with a later announce, one could suspect the construction of track and supports isn't pressing. Also, if the plant is finishing up a previously contracted job for another park - KI's track and supports may be next up.

You are incorrect

If the woman was sitting by herself, that explains a lot. I believe the findings will reveal that there was a flaw in the restraints that allowed her to fall to the side and out of the lapbar on one of the highly banked turns. No doubt her weight contributed to her inability to hold herself in, and interia took over. I would suspect it was simular to the Flight Commander incident that caused the death at KI 20 years ago. As far as Senator Markey, he's been whining his tune for years... snzzzzz... meanwhile his state had over 28,000 instances of violent crime last year. That's an average of .05% of the states population. Seems he needs a better attention-seeking platform.

Any word on what the original theme/name to Top Gun was to have been? I always heard the working name was "Raven."

Yes. As I understand it... It was designed and proposed by the Dinn Corp to Americana originally. This was one of the last coasters built by the Dinn Corp before it became Custom Coasters International. Denise Dinn actually was driving Dinn Corp by then, her father was semi-retired I believe. They proposed the coaster to Americana - who ultimately couldn't afford it and/or passed. Ed Hart (who was in the midst of a building frenzy at KK) then contracted them to build a wooden coaster for KK and they used the drafts from the Americana proposal to build Thunder Run. Ironically, the Dinn Corp was also proposing a design to KI at the very same time. There was a fallout at the Dinn Corp, Charles Dinn retired, and the company folded - negating the wooden coaster proposal for KI. KI, under the leadership of Carl Linder, then contracted Arrow to build a suspended coaster. In late 1992 Linder sold KI to Paramount, but the suspended was still contracted to be built, and the theme was altered to "Top Gun."

That's a great video. Many don't realize how under-rated Thunder Run was when it was first built. Bunny hill #1 (:59 on the video) had insane ejector air. Bunny hill #3 (1:05 on the video) was also a great off-your seat moment. There was also a double-up 3/4 of the way through that was later removed/modified (1:16 in the video.) It's nice to "virtually" ride the original again. I'll have to admit, TR was the only reason I would visit KK in those later years.

A test seat doesn't enforce the rule. Many would ignore the test seat and venture in anyways. Some may try the test seat, and even if they didn't fit, still attempt. The employees at an entrance (park or ride) can't profile (tell larger folks to try the test seat) otherwise it's mis-construed as discrimination. While test seats do work for those that actually take their limitations into consideration, they do not work for those that are either mentally oblivious or mentally ignorant of the restrictions.

I told you an outside factor related to the guest - such as obsesity - would be one of the lead contributing factors. I'm going to ruffle some feathers here, but I'll come right out with it. Parks should, under the law, have the right to refuse anyone of exceptional size and/or physical handicap to ride. ADA regulations have reached a ridiculous fever pitch, and those that are obsese are developing a mentality that "what everyone else can do, I should be allowed to do." Sorry, but that's crap. They should NOT be allowed to do something that could compromise their safety. A park should be protected, just as any citizen is, should they refuse a person. If I have a backyard pool with a slide, I can - by law - refuse someone access to it for fear their physical limitation would endanger them should they go on the slide. However if a park does such, it's considered discrimination, and the ADA gives the guest the right to sue. It's a fact of life that those of larger proportions simply cannot do, or should not do, things that would be impeded by size. By living in a "PC" society, we are perpetuating myths. By "pretending" that a person of extreme size or limitation is completely able-bodied endangers them. It generates a mentality, in cases such as coaster riding, that they are superior to a mechanical device. It's lose-lose for the parks. If they refuse the rider - they get sued. If they allow the rider - they run the risk of getting sued should any accident (no matter how small) occurr. When I worked on Beast crew, there was a fellow who came with his Dad to KI every weekend and rode The Beast. He was middle-aged, wheelchair bound and LOVED KI. I really appreciated his love of the park. However, he was handicapped to the point that he could not lift or manuever himself out of his chair or into the train whatsoever. As a matter of fact, (as I recall) his arms had very limited mobility and he was not able to hold the lap bar properly. (I believe, he had Cerebral Palsy to the point that he was constricted to the chair) We'd have to hold the trains while three of us lifted him from his chair onto the ride. We then had to adhere him to the seat with a special torso strap and click his lapbar down on him. This was AFTER we had notified those that had waited in line (he didn't have to - came up the exit) that he would be riding in front of them for the next two circuits (he was permitted two consecutive rides.) We'd send him on his way, and every single time I'd pray to God that he came back in one piece. I stayed scared to death something would happen and I'd be responsible. However, by law, I was not allowed to refuse this. But also, had something happened, my neck was on the chopping block for blame. Now I was in my late 20's - and working at KI for kicks. Most employees at KI are teens - or young 20s. That's an immense responsibility to place on "a kid." Yet, had I refused to allow him - or even refused to assist him - I would have been fired and the park sued. Now I ask... is that fair to anyone? Him? Me? The park?

I was referring to the Superman ROS at Six Flags Darien lake - where the passenger fell out of the train as it hit the final brake run. The passenger was missing his legs as I recall. In regards to the Superman New England (now Bizarro) incident, there are no high sides to the train. Actually, there are NO sides to the train. It uses open-air style trains by Intamin. You mentioned the rider had a physical handicap - Cerebral Palsy - and was obsese. These contributed to his fall. Again, as terrible as the SFOT accident is, I still believe several factors will be found as contributing factors. I believe a physical limitation - likely obsesity- may have played a part in this, as it often does.

I don't believe the woman in this interview. She's embellishing.

Some coaster's lap restraints rely on, what I believe to be, air compression. I believe Intamin rides like Superman coasters, MForce, Drop Tower etc are like this - they don't click they compress down. If that's the case, then there is a chance that there was a compression failure. IF the victim was over-weight, this would have compounded the failure. That is, essentially, the cause of the Superman death many years ago.

Regarding the eyewitness account... there's contradictions the statement she gave the press: Carmen Brown of Arlington was waiting in line as the victim and her son were being strapped in for the ride. “She was right in front of us, but we weren’t on the ride,” she said.“The lady basically tumbled over.” If she wasn't on the ride, she couldn't have witnessed her tumbling over during the course of the ride. Brown said the victim’s young son was in the seat in front of his mother. “We heard her screaming. We were, like, ‘Did she just fall?’” If they were in the station - which no doubt was loud and noisy, how did they hear her screaming? Also, if they were next to get on the ride, wouldn't they have been busy loading into the train? I have ridden the old Texas Giant, but the New Texas Giant has the same set-up. The train leaves the station facing AWAY from the course. It makes a 180 turn to the right and onto the lift (the same as Mean Streak) it then ascends the hill and the course is located to the far left of the station (on load side.) Brown said she didn’t believe that the woman had been secured in her seat correctly. Subjective Brown said the victim expressed concern to a park employee that her harness only clicked once when it was lowered into place, unlike the multiple clicks heard when others were strapped in. “He was basically nonchalant,” Brown said. “He was, like, ‘As long as you heard it click, you’re fine. Hers was the only one that went down once, and she didn’t feel safe. But they let her still get on the ride.” Investigators were interviewing witnesses on the ride, some of whom reported that the woman had been thrown from the roller coaster as it rounded a turn. This confuses me. Because of the high sides to the train, I wouldn't expect that she fell to the side. It would seem more likely that she'd fall forward or backward... and the witness even elluded to it "The Lady basically tumbled over." None the less, time will tell. However I don't think we will gain accurate information based on such eyewitness accounts. Any NUMBER of things could have gone wrong. And often, such horrible tragedies are a result of several mistakes, errors or circumstances.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the ride would automatically e-stop if restraints popped open... only if the Op saw it would THEY e-stop it by hand.

Yes, this. Airtime is not the only issue here. There is also the issue of hanging over the first drop from the front few rows. How do you stay on there if the restraint suddenly fails? That's what I was trying to say, thanks. If your hanging on the lift and the restraints popped up the ride would e stop. . Huh? I didn't know B&M trains were advanced enough that a computer monitored each and every restraint. Firehawk does in-station... but I always assumed B&M's went by the "click" rule - thats the reason for those guidemarks at the base of the restraint pole. I've never heard of ANY coaster E-stopping if a restraint fails. Seems like this would require a ton of diagnostic equipment on the train itself.

I feel so horrible for the family of this victim. What a horrific thing to have witnessed! I was the newly-named Regional Rep for ACE when the tragedy occurred at Holiday World. I stayed with the ACE PR Rep in HW after it was evacuated following the incident. The devistation I saw on the faces over that tragedy is something that still upsets me. Following that incident, I still witnessed "enthusiasts" trying to get away with single clicks, or complaining about being stapled. It soured me on the "fun" of avid coaster riding, I left ACE immediately and I stopped going to enthusiasts events. Now, this woman was a regular park goer... but the fact remains that the multi-click rule exists for a reason. I beg everyone reading this to observe ALL rules at every park... including not holding hands up... and I encourage each of you to also pay attention to those that may be placing themselves in harm's way. Be careful folks.. these are machines... big, dangerous machines.

LOL, I give that construction guy a lot of credit. Awesome response! LOL!

Are there any recent construction pics?

Common Blackbirds: -Starling -Crow -Raven -Brewer -Red Wing -Grackle -Cowbird -Cardinal Many may not know this, but prior to Paramount taking over KI, Top Gun's install had already been contracted with Arrow... it was themed to "Top Gun" during construction only after Paramount took ownership. I have always heard that one of the working names of the coaster prior to the Paramount branding was "Raven." Not sure of the truth to it, just what I had heard through the years.

Hmmm... Owls are also known to keep Bats away.

As Interpreter said, it's totally different. Don's statement is open-ended and answers the question without answering it. Classic PR. You can change the meaning of the statement just by placing the emphasis on different nouns. Day, Ride, Summer...

Cedar Point hit it's stride in the late 1970s to early 1980s. I actually credit the high profile installs of Gemini and Demon Drop with laying the groundwork for their "thrill seeking" demographic. Quite frankly, CP jumped on the bandwagon following KI's install of Beast. KI got world-wide coverage from that install.. other parks... such as CP, took note and followed suite. The installs since have allowed them to maintain their reputations. But I think the proper question would be "Where would CP be without the Marketing Blitz of the early 1980s?" Shaggy

I'd be very surprised if this were the case... KI historically closes all offices for 2 weeks around Christmas. Also, from a PR standpoint, it's not wise timing. On Dec 25th, virtually everyone is "distracted" from press.

Wow......Worst part of the commercial is the ride that they used..... A Vekoma Boomerang looks and feels nothing like a shuttle loop coaster.....It was even relocated! Couldn't some old footage of it been used?.... Never mind....That's just how the Kingdom was...One word to describe it in all.....Cheap. They used 2 coasters in that commercial - 1. The now defunct Greezed Lightnin as Six Flags Astroworld (which was an accurate portrayal) 2. A Boomerang (still working on which one... almost think Geauga Lake... err Six Flags Ohio... err. Six Flags Worlds of Adventure... due to the colors/train style and wooden coaster in background.) That actually would have represented the former Vampire at KK removed by Six Flags prior to the Greezed Lightnin install. It's all so.... incestuous ;-) LOL!