Shaggy

A test seat doesn't enforce the rule. Many would ignore the test seat and venture in anyways. Some may try the test seat, and even if they didn't fit, still attempt. The employees at an entrance (park or ride) can't profile (tell larger folks to try the test seat) otherwise it's mis-construed as discrimination. While test seats do work for those that actually take their limitations into consideration, they do not work for those that are either mentally oblivious or mentally ignorant of the restrictions.

I told you an outside factor related to the guest - such as obsesity - would be one of the lead contributing factors. I'm going to ruffle some feathers here, but I'll come right out with it. Parks should, under the law, have the right to refuse anyone of exceptional size and/or physical handicap to ride. ADA regulations have reached a ridiculous fever pitch, and those that are obsese are developing a mentality that "what everyone else can do, I should be allowed to do." Sorry, but that's crap. They should NOT be allowed to do something that could compromise their safety. A park should be protected, just as any citizen is, should they refuse a person. If I have a backyard pool with a slide, I can - by law - refuse someone access to it for fear their physical limitation would endanger them should they go on the slide. However if a park does such, it's considered discrimination, and the ADA gives the guest the right to sue. It's a fact of life that those of larger proportions simply cannot do, or should not do, things that would be impeded by size. By living in a "PC" society, we are perpetuating myths. By "pretending" that a person of extreme size or limitation is completely able-bodied endangers them. It generates a mentality, in cases such as coaster riding, that they are superior to a mechanical device. It's lose-lose for the parks. If they refuse the rider - they get sued. If they allow the rider - they run the risk of getting sued should any accident (no matter how small) occurr. When I worked on Beast crew, there was a fellow who came with his Dad to KI every weekend and rode The Beast. He was middle-aged, wheelchair bound and LOVED KI. I really appreciated his love of the park. However, he was handicapped to the point that he could not lift or manuever himself out of his chair or into the train whatsoever. As a matter of fact, (as I recall) his arms had very limited mobility and he was not able to hold the lap bar properly. (I believe, he had Cerebral Palsy to the point that he was constricted to the chair) We'd have to hold the trains while three of us lifted him from his chair onto the ride. We then had to adhere him to the seat with a special torso strap and click his lapbar down on him. This was AFTER we had notified those that had waited in line (he didn't have to - came up the exit) that he would be riding in front of them for the next two circuits (he was permitted two consecutive rides.) We'd send him on his way, and every single time I'd pray to God that he came back in one piece. I stayed scared to death something would happen and I'd be responsible. However, by law, I was not allowed to refuse this. But also, had something happened, my neck was on the chopping block for blame. Now I was in my late 20's - and working at KI for kicks. Most employees at KI are teens - or young 20s. That's an immense responsibility to place on "a kid." Yet, had I refused to allow him - or even refused to assist him - I would have been fired and the park sued. Now I ask... is that fair to anyone? Him? Me? The park?

I was referring to the Superman ROS at Six Flags Darien lake - where the passenger fell out of the train as it hit the final brake run. The passenger was missing his legs as I recall. In regards to the Superman New England (now Bizarro) incident, there are no high sides to the train. Actually, there are NO sides to the train. It uses open-air style trains by Intamin. You mentioned the rider had a physical handicap - Cerebral Palsy - and was obsese. These contributed to his fall. Again, as terrible as the SFOT accident is, I still believe several factors will be found as contributing factors. I believe a physical limitation - likely obsesity- may have played a part in this, as it often does.

I don't believe the woman in this interview. She's embellishing.

Some coaster's lap restraints rely on, what I believe to be, air compression. I believe Intamin rides like Superman coasters, MForce, Drop Tower etc are like this - they don't click they compress down. If that's the case, then there is a chance that there was a compression failure. IF the victim was over-weight, this would have compounded the failure. That is, essentially, the cause of the Superman death many years ago.

Regarding the eyewitness account... there's contradictions the statement she gave the press: Carmen Brown of Arlington was waiting in line as the victim and her son were being strapped in for the ride. “She was right in front of us, but we weren’t on the ride,” she said.“The lady basically tumbled over.” If she wasn't on the ride, she couldn't have witnessed her tumbling over during the course of the ride. Brown said the victim’s young son was in the seat in front of his mother. “We heard her screaming. We were, like, ‘Did she just fall?’” If they were in the station - which no doubt was loud and noisy, how did they hear her screaming? Also, if they were next to get on the ride, wouldn't they have been busy loading into the train? I have ridden the old Texas Giant, but the New Texas Giant has the same set-up. The train leaves the station facing AWAY from the course. It makes a 180 turn to the right and onto the lift (the same as Mean Streak) it then ascends the hill and the course is located to the far left of the station (on load side.) Brown said she didn’t believe that the woman had been secured in her seat correctly. Subjective Brown said the victim expressed concern to a park employee that her harness only clicked once when it was lowered into place, unlike the multiple clicks heard when others were strapped in. “He was basically nonchalant,” Brown said. “He was, like, ‘As long as you heard it click, you’re fine. Hers was the only one that went down once, and she didn’t feel safe. But they let her still get on the ride.” Investigators were interviewing witnesses on the ride, some of whom reported that the woman had been thrown from the roller coaster as it rounded a turn. This confuses me. Because of the high sides to the train, I wouldn't expect that she fell to the side. It would seem more likely that she'd fall forward or backward... and the witness even elluded to it "The Lady basically tumbled over." None the less, time will tell. However I don't think we will gain accurate information based on such eyewitness accounts. Any NUMBER of things could have gone wrong. And often, such horrible tragedies are a result of several mistakes, errors or circumstances.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the ride would automatically e-stop if restraints popped open... only if the Op saw it would THEY e-stop it by hand.

Yes, this. Airtime is not the only issue here. There is also the issue of hanging over the first drop from the front few rows. How do you stay on there if the restraint suddenly fails? That's what I was trying to say, thanks. If your hanging on the lift and the restraints popped up the ride would e stop. . Huh? I didn't know B&M trains were advanced enough that a computer monitored each and every restraint. Firehawk does in-station... but I always assumed B&M's went by the "click" rule - thats the reason for those guidemarks at the base of the restraint pole. I've never heard of ANY coaster E-stopping if a restraint fails. Seems like this would require a ton of diagnostic equipment on the train itself.

I feel so horrible for the family of this victim. What a horrific thing to have witnessed! I was the newly-named Regional Rep for ACE when the tragedy occurred at Holiday World. I stayed with the ACE PR Rep in HW after it was evacuated following the incident. The devistation I saw on the faces over that tragedy is something that still upsets me. Following that incident, I still witnessed "enthusiasts" trying to get away with single clicks, or complaining about being stapled. It soured me on the "fun" of avid coaster riding, I left ACE immediately and I stopped going to enthusiasts events. Now, this woman was a regular park goer... but the fact remains that the multi-click rule exists for a reason. I beg everyone reading this to observe ALL rules at every park... including not holding hands up... and I encourage each of you to also pay attention to those that may be placing themselves in harm's way. Be careful folks.. these are machines... big, dangerous machines.

LOL, I give that construction guy a lot of credit. Awesome response! LOL!

Are there any recent construction pics?

Common Blackbirds: -Starling -Crow -Raven -Brewer -Red Wing -Grackle -Cowbird -Cardinal Many may not know this, but prior to Paramount taking over KI, Top Gun's install had already been contracted with Arrow... it was themed to "Top Gun" during construction only after Paramount took ownership. I have always heard that one of the working names of the coaster prior to the Paramount branding was "Raven." Not sure of the truth to it, just what I had heard through the years.

Hmmm... Owls are also known to keep Bats away.

As Interpreter said, it's totally different. Don's statement is open-ended and answers the question without answering it. Classic PR. You can change the meaning of the statement just by placing the emphasis on different nouns. Day, Ride, Summer...

Cedar Point hit it's stride in the late 1970s to early 1980s. I actually credit the high profile installs of Gemini and Demon Drop with laying the groundwork for their "thrill seeking" demographic. Quite frankly, CP jumped on the bandwagon following KI's install of Beast. KI got world-wide coverage from that install.. other parks... such as CP, took note and followed suite. The installs since have allowed them to maintain their reputations. But I think the proper question would be "Where would CP be without the Marketing Blitz of the early 1980s?" Shaggy

I'd be very surprised if this were the case... KI historically closes all offices for 2 weeks around Christmas. Also, from a PR standpoint, it's not wise timing. On Dec 25th, virtually everyone is "distracted" from press.

Wow......Worst part of the commercial is the ride that they used..... A Vekoma Boomerang looks and feels nothing like a shuttle loop coaster.....It was even relocated! Couldn't some old footage of it been used?.... Never mind....That's just how the Kingdom was...One word to describe it in all.....Cheap. They used 2 coasters in that commercial - 1. The now defunct Greezed Lightnin as Six Flags Astroworld (which was an accurate portrayal) 2. A Boomerang (still working on which one... almost think Geauga Lake... err Six Flags Ohio... err. Six Flags Worlds of Adventure... due to the colors/train style and wooden coaster in background.) That actually would have represented the former Vampire at KK removed by Six Flags prior to the Greezed Lightnin install. It's all so.... incestuous ;-) LOL!

I passed by the fairgrounds this morning on the way to a flea market and noticed that GL is gone... at least you cannot see any remaining portions of it from the interstate.

There's an art to riding Beast. When I was on crew, we took routine test rides. I learned exactly how to brace myself before each sharp moment, as well as the exact place to lean forward a few inches when entering the double helix. I use the technique to this day... it's like riding a bike whenever I get on... just natural.

Just remember that The Beast that runs today is a different creature than what was originally built. The abrupt brakes it currently uses, IMO, detract terribly from the ride. However today's technology, insurace and safety regulations require them.

In my tenure... yes you watched the camera and monitored the block indicators. You had to wait until the next two blocks ahead were clear before you would release the train from the station. (That was typically when the train had cleared lift #1. There were two blocks between the station and drop then. The block indicators were on the panel as well... illuminated lights. ) You could release the train from the station early (if you and the rear queue side op was also pressing the brake release button) but it would cause a block set-up and the coaster would automatically e-stop. Prior to the computerized panel, in the early years, there wasn't a camera. There was a block indicator in the booth that showed where trains wree by illuminating the blocks on an acrylic panel with the layout drawn on it. For lift #1, the rear exit-side checker monitored the train as it went up the lift. For lift #2, because of the absence of a camera, there was a staffed ride op position to the right of the lift. That way they could monitor trains as they climbed. This was a rotational position that became obsolete when cameras were installed.

The Beast ran trimless only in intial testing. Thats when it's "speed" was clocked. It's never achieved that top speed since. I believe that until the coster was re-vamped with an updated Op panel (in the late '80s - early 1990s, I believe) the trim brakes were not mechanical. They were skids operated by counterweights. Speeds were checked throughout the day by maintenance, and the counterweights were increased, or decreased based on various conditions affecting the speed. The counterweights were... drumroll please... coffee cans with nuts and bolts in them suspended down through the lift structure by long steel wires. I "drove" The Beast in 1998-99 prior to the change to magnetics. The operation of the skids was a bit of an art form. You had to disengage the skids by holding down the brake button, and then releasing the button at various marked points. Depending upon conditions, where you needed to release the button in order to stop the train in the proper point could change. Weather most definitely affected this - particularly on cold days when the hydraulics would take longer to raise the skids. (You had to release the button much earlier than usual.) This manual operation of the station brakes and final brake run is why they crew used the term "drive." We never "operated" The Beast... we "drove" it. Because of this learning curve, it took a long time for a newbie to test up to diving The Beast. On the coldest day I ever worked (Oct 1999) I was driving Beast while it was literally snowing. Because of the conditions, a wood maintenance crew member was stationed in the booth as a back-up. Trains were consistantly sliding partially out of the station due to brake delays. At one point while I was driving, the train slid all the way out, rounded the corner and made it's way to the base of the lift hill. This, obviously created a blocking set-up and the ride had to be stopped and re-set by wood maintenance. I'll never forget the looks of the faces of folks as they passed through the station, past the drivers booth and rounded the corner. It was a "What the....!!!" reaction. I literally had my hands in the air (I had long before engaged the brakes, but the hydraulics were too cold and didn't raise) saying "It's not me! It's not me!" LOL. The maintenance guy, Doug, just laughed and said something like "Hope they liked it the first time... because theyre getting a bonus round!" I still have my Beast Op Manual, btw... On a simular note... when Racer and Scooby Doo opened - they opened with manual skids - literally an in-station lever that was pulled back and forth to engage/disengage.

And it's magic.... it turns your poo poo green right before your very eyes ;-)

What? What does this mean? The scarecrow I name him Bob! This was the first name I saw given to him Are we sure those are scarecrows? It looks more like an angry New England villager to me. You know, like something from a witch hunt, or Legend of Sleepy Hollow. When I first saw the pictures of them, I immediatley thought of an angry mob of townspeople. Sort of like those at the end of Beauty and The Beast... I sure didn't think scarecrow.

If you're interested in a job in the PR industry, try calling or emailing Don at the park, explain your interest and ask if you can bend his ear for a bit. I've found him to be very approachable and nice, so hopefully he'd make a bit of time for you. As an attorney, I'm always trying to give back by offering to mentor law students or offer up my workplace as a place to job shadow. While Don's job may seem glamorous, it's not all peaches and cream. I'm glad he's the park's spokesperson, compared to the people Paramount had. It's been a LONG time since I've seen a post so off the mark and that has ruffled my (typically) unrufflable feathers. "The people Paramount had" like Jeffrey Seibert, Maureen Kaiser Richmond, David Mandt are not only top notch Marketeers, but amazing persons as well. Jeff S. is Marketing Director at Six Flags Fiesta Texas, and that's following his long tenure at Schlitterbahn. He, his wife Lisa (and their kids) are amazingly kind, intelligent and generous people. Maureen has been the Marketing Director of several organizations, and is the mother of adorable sons, she too is quite a great lady (a real class act!) Maureen herself plowed KI through the nightmare that was the SOB "incident." She's to be applauded for her grace and dignity through that time. David Mandt helps spearhead IAAPA - which he has done since leaving Paramount Parks. David is a gem of a guy, who literally walked in and cleaned up the biggest PR mess KI has ever had (thank you Ms Colnar.) You'd be lucky to know him. Before you make such an uninformed statement, you should know your facts. "Those people Paramount had" are some of the best in the industry.... literal legends... and the friends of many here. Although I also credit Don for all the hard work he's done for Ki through the years both unofficially... and officially... I can't let someone knock the former teams that helped lead KI in the past. Shaggy