The Interpreter

Due to the Equal Employment Opportunity laws and some actions associated therewith, Cedar Fair finally abandoned the single gender crews a few years back.

I'd be interested in this as well. Especially since CP procedures are not universal (if you will) across Cedar Fair. On some CF coasters, you must take all loose articles with you! If you can imagine that. Dorney Park comes to mind, but not on Steel Force, which now has storage areas on the platform...

I totally agree. I bet it doesn't happen, though.

I just replied to all this you posted in the Winterfest thread: http://www.pkicentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7691 In SUMMARY, no, Cedar Fair does NOT have to pay to NOT use the Paramount name. If they want to keep using it, they have to pay. Not vice versa. And that decision is "being evaluated." A license to use it is available for a ten year period. It did NOT come with the deal. And the Geauga Lake deal was entirely different. Six Flags is still in business. At least at the moment, any way. Paramount Parks, a unit of CBS, is NOT. (Paramount Parks, a unit of VIACOM, IS and is in fact apparently building a theme park in China!)

Yep, a third park was proposed...over in the DC area. Like the Disney proposal, it never happened. That's a tough area over there for parks, land is incredibly expensive. I think one reason Six Flags renamed Wild World to Six Flags America was to try to fend off competition from coming in and setting up a major park near DC.

Paramount Communications bought the KECO parks, and it was a stretch for them at the time to buy the parks they did. We sometimes forget Paramount Communications should get the credit for putting the KECO parks back together. Kings Island was no longer related to the other KECO parks...there was only a management contract with Lindner, and it was in its last year. There was widespread, probably accurate, sentiment that it was not going to be renewed. And, of course, had KI not been included and KECO had sold the other parks, there wouldn't have been much of a KECO to manage KI left for long anyway. When contracts are not renewed, the major reasons are usually either financial (someone is either paying too much or getting too little in their opinion, or not getting what they are paying for or losing money doing the contract on the other hand). Sometimes the parties just plain old don't like each other, or think they can do a better job elsewhere or even by themselves. Usually why a contract ends is not talked about. It's considered "proprietary information." Business speak to the rest of us for "none of your business." As for the theming, I was never there. Perhaps someone here was? Why did Paramount Parks want to manage it? Probably to make some money and to see if they were good at managing parks in Europe to gain experience and decide if that was something they wanted to do...

I think you will find that what was said was that there would be no major changes in the Paramount Parks this SEASON. Winterfest is not a part of the season. It's after the season ends. And to say that Winterfest attracted as many people as on a normal summer day might be true....if you compare opening night of Winterfest to a summer weekday where it pours rain and lightnings all day. Of course the park said it went well. The people who were responsible for its success are never going to say: "We overpriced it, the people didn't respond and it was a colossal failure. We are very sorry that we didn't execute this as well as we should have and are going back to the drawing board to decide what to do." Yeah, they might lose a little bit of money if they don't have it (contract deposits, a few hundred (yes, hundred) pre-sold tickets would have to be refunded). They are apt to lose a lot more if they DO have it. "They will either keep or buy out the Paramount name." That's backwards. They will either give up the Paramount name or pay to keep using it. As for how quickly Geauga was rethemed, other than the massive theming in the kids area, things had to be renamed but not rethemed. The kids area was barely redone. The first year, carrots were EVERYWHERE. Many still are. Geauga wasn't really a theme park and still isn't. Nothing like TRTR exists there. Batman Knight Flight, for instance, involved only taking down a sign. A sign they removed so well, you can STILL see what the letters said on the front of the ride...Gotham City became Power City. Minor renaming. There was a lot of work to be done to convert the park, but retheming wasn't a major part of it. As for Winterfest, so far, one of my major predictions seems to be coming true. By August or September, we should know how much season passes are going to cost, what benefits are included (and what costs extra), and what the exchange program is going to be. I say that's when people are going to start to realize two things: Paramount Parks no longer owns or operates the parks AND Paramount Parks did some things very, very right--and Cedar Fair either is or is not going to learn from them and incorporate them---Will the pass program be more like the one Paramount Parks had or more like the one Cedar Fair had? And will they truly become one program, or will we see two programs with minor integration? If the latter, will it stay that way, or will they eventually merge the two? Questions, questions. One thing I don't think a lot of people understand. Many decisions (perhaps even the one about whether to have Winterfest), truly have NOT been made. The people running Cedar Fair are people. There is no secret cabal with the plan already written down that they are just mindlessly executing. There are meetings galore, arguments, fights even, and they do the best they can. Let's all hope and pray they do very well indeed. Kings Island, and all their parks, and their thousands of employees , the states and localities where the parks are located, and the unitholders (and the suppliers, banks and creditors), are all depending on them and trusting that they do well! And this may be a surprise to you, but I bet the entire industry is pulling for Cedar Fair to make this work. Just as many are hoping that Shapiro and Snyder can save Six Flags. Parks becoming condos is not just a small park thing. We've already lost Astroworld. This is a tough business. It ain't as easy as playing Roller Coaster Tycoon (not that I am ANY good at that. I ain't.)

I believe that both Six Flags and Paramount Parks were using that name under license, from Marriott. Not sure, though.

But, that dock could stay forever, whether or not there is ever another WinterFest....why spend money to take something out that takes away options for the park in the future? The dock isn't hurting anything. I don't see it leaving, regardless.

....Marketing speak for: * We didn't get the attendance we expected... * We orverpriced the event... * We didn't make the profit we anticipated. And they also said it was a smashing success....

Remember, if Cedar Fair is going to make any major changes in the Paramount Parks (especially if they engage in de-Paramountization), they will want and need this downtime to make changes, and without the watchful eyes or distraction of WinterFest. And, making a net profit is going to be drastically important to the chain, now that they have the watchful eyes of lenders overlooking all that they do.

If you mean the one in Spain, Paramount only managed it. From 2001 to 2004, Paramount Parks managed Terra Mitica, in Benidorm, Valencia, Spain. The management contract was not renewed.

I believe you! That's the place it normally valleys and that's about how long it takes to swing back and forth, back and forth, back and forth....like a pendulum until it stops. If you had said 30 or 40 seconds, I'd of known you were pulling our collective legs!

I see you have tried to talk to Guest Relations through the bank drive-in type speaker thingy at Six Flags Kentucky Kingdom.

Well, if we never discuss what the problems are in the park, those who read this site expecting to find such information will instead assume all is just hunky-dorry. And when it comes to that thing, it isn't....in the opinion of far too many people. If you love it, Godspeed! Enjoy.

Profit? Did you say Profit? WHAT profit? That ain't the way I heard it. . . And don't EVEN be asking for a source from this poster. You won't be getting one. . .

Most interesting on that list is that they were only a licensed user of the mark Great America.... Do I smell ONE possible park name change coming?

You might think so, but no. Even down to such things as to whether there are cubbies to store loose articles or whether you must take all loose articles onboard with you (!!) and can leave nothing in the station under any circumstances. I have seen both policies enforced, sometimes at the same park (Dorney).

Yeah, but how long did you do that?

If you valleyed, you had a rollback of a sorts, though most people think launched coaster when they speak of or think of rollbacks. How long did it take for the coaster to stop moving after it failed to make the hill?

My reference was not meant as to whether they would keep the theming (though that is a good question), but more to will they keep the theming UP--as in maintain it and keep it repaired...(which Paramount certainly didn't do all that great a job of...)

The Millennium Flyers are perhaps the best wooden coaster cars out there. Has a lot to with the suspension and the intense cushioning. Doesn't matter. GCI wouldn't have sold them the trains for that thing then and I am virtually certain they won't now either.

Probably not as many as would were the theming kept up. Twill be most interesting to see what CF does with this, and with AE, for that matter....

Yep, I agree and admire YOUR passion for KI. Tony's doing fine, by the way. Carowinds is a better park for his being there. And they don't come much better than Jill. If they do at all.

Look at those two links to other threads: http://www.pkicentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7684 and http://www.pkicentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=7683 And Lake Cumberland is great! Glad you enjoyed it!