gad198

I visited the park (SFKK) three weeks ago for the first time and was pleasantly surprised. Granted, their coaster collection isn't the best out there but I came away feeling as though much of the negative news I've heard about the park was not warranted. The park was clean and the operators were friendly, many of whom actually showed some personality! Chang was by far the best ride in the park. I do find it amazing that the last three standups that B&M made (Chang, Riddler's Revenge and Georgia Scorcher) were the three best in their collection. Having said that, I can vouch with others that the ride was a complete walk-on, even at 1 pm on a summer Saturday. The waterpark, on the other hand, was amazingly busy, and almost felt like even then that it was too small for how many people were there. The rumor, while it may not turn out to be true, does make some sense at least from the standpoint that the waterpark at SFKK is definitely their meal ticket. How they would incorporate Chang into SF Great America's lineup is the real mystery IMO. Having two standups at a park doesn't really make much sense, so we'll see.

^ I'm betting you'll be able to see much more of the ride at Carowinds. The trees do partly block much of the action on DB, but the placement of Carowinds hyper will allow for much less obstructed viewing. It'll be much more similar to Behemoth's placement at Canada's Wonderland, which I might add, is fantastic.

Yeah, this is for the 11th and 12th. I edited my original post to reflect that. If the weather holds out for that time I'll definitely be taking a half day and heading up there that Friday. Good times!

Cedar Point just added two more days to their calendar, Friday and Saturday September 11 and 12. These days were not opened up to the public until very recently. I only mention this because my brother and I went up on this same Friday this time last year and had the best day we've ever had at Cedar Point. It was so dead for early entry that they let everyone, including the GP, in. We got three rides on Maverick in 20 minutes early and MF and TTD were 5-10 minutes even at the peak of the lines. Friday is 6-11 (early entry at 5) and Saturday is 12-10 (early entry at 11). Cedar Point Calendar

I definitely agree with the first part. This looks like it will ride completely different than any other coaster, particularly given the speed involved. I think much of the conversation and buzz is due to just that. It also means that this coaster will probably evoke more variable opinions from both the GP and enthusiasts than the Carowinds version, as B&M hypers typically feel very similar. I disagree, in part, with the second part. Comparing I305 and a mega-lite (or a B&M hyper) is comparing apples and oranges IMO. Megalites spend much more of their time going over hills, while I305 is spending most of its time closer to the ground in turns.

^ It's also not your own money going into fixing it. It's always easier to spend someone else's money than your own! It's only 'worth' it to CF if it makes business sense, and I'm not really seeing where CF is really itching to get out there and repair the thing at this point.

I initially voted for Raven, but after riding Ravine Flyer II this weekend I'll agree. This ride really shines at night, and I actually liked the night rides here better than the Raven ones, which is saying something because Raven night rides are the bomb! Still need to ride Phoenix, though...

I love the layout of this ride! It's a little Nitro and a little Behemoth rolled into one coaster. This coaster looks like it may have the best first half of any B&M hyper, which is saying something considering that Nitro's and Behemoth's first halves are both very good. The turnaround, particularly in the back, will catch a lot of people by surprise, as the one on Behemoth is fantastic. There's also NO TRIMS SHOWING! If this thing isn't trimmed I can almost guarantee this will be a top 10 ride. I'm actually more excited about riding this than KD's Intimidator.

Overview: My brother and I decided to take a very last minute weekend trip out to Kansas City and St. Louis. We drove out to Columbia, MO Friday evening, hit up Worlds of Fun Saturday and then Six Flags St. Louis on Sunday. The weather was absolutely perfect both days as the temperature stayed around 80 for high temps, so we expected there might be some crowds. Much to our surprise, however, crowds were very light both days and this allowed us, particularly on Saturday at WOF, to do some additional things in town. Worlds of Fun: A quick note: the Platinum Pass allows you entrance into the park 10 minutes early to go wait in whatever line you desire. It wasn't a big perk on our visit but if you go when there might be heavier crowds this may make a difference in your day. Patriot (one train wait to the back row): the parks B&M inverted. I can't remember with 100% accuracy but this seems like a Talon clone, the exception being a zero-g roll that goes to the right instead of to the left. Patriot is an amazingly smooth coaster with a terrific first drop, and I'll go so far as to say that it might be the first drop on any inverted I've ridden. I actually liked this a shade more than Talon, as this seemed to have a little more speed through the course. I'd rank the B&M inverted I've ridden as follows: Montu, Afterburn, Dueling Dragons (Ice/Fire, in that order), Raptor, Batman clones, Patriot, Talon. Grade: B- Prowler (walk-on to the third to last row): the parks newest ride, a GCI. It's been mentioned here that you can't see a lot of the ride's layout from the queue or from the rest of the park, and that is absolutely true. The trees really frame the ride well, as you can really only see the lift and some of the "back" portion of this out and back layout. This ride is simply out and out fun. The first drop is basically Thunderhead's first drop but going to the left instead, providing a neat sensation as you're falling back to earth. The layout is an out and back, but it twists and turns the whole way, so you're changing directions constantly. I'm sure night rides on this would be fantastic! Prowler is just outside my top 5 wood and is by far the best coaster in the park. We rode five times in succession (in various rows, from the front to the back...we found the best rides in the back), so extra points are awarded for re-rideability (love those Millennium Flyer trains!). A very, very good wooden coaster. Grade: A- Mamba (one train wait to the second row): the parks Morgan hyper. I don't know what to say about this ride other than it was simply a little better than average. You do get some float on the first hill (although, to its credit, the first drop is WAY better in the back) and a little float on the bunny hills coming back, but I expected a little more to the ride than what we got. The helix is very cool, but that and the first drop in the back are the only real redeeming qualities. This ride was smoother than Magnum, but I'd take Magnum every time because it has more to offer in just about every other area. Grade: C+ Worlds of Fun is a nice park. There's plenty of shade in most areas and it wasn't incredibly difficult walking around trying to find things. I do wish they had a few more signs indicating the best way to get to some rides, but that's a minor complaint. Ride operations here were really good; not quite Cedar Point good but still way better than most other parks. I don't know that I'll be rushing back here anytime soon, though, as there's not quite enough noteworthy stuff (outside of Prowler) for us. We wanted to spend more time here checking out their flats, but we had BBQ to enjoy. Overall grade: C+ Oklahoma Joe's BBQ: This joint was listed in a recent magazine article (can't remember which one off the top of my head) as one of the "13 Places You Should Eat Before You Die". Good enough! The place is in Kansas just across the river from downtown Kansas City. We were told that the restaurant itself actually shares space with a gas/convenient store, so it was a little weird to be looking for a gas station when trying to find a BBQ joint! We knew we can to the right place when we saw the line forming outside the door. We hopped in line and waited an hour to order (not a misprint). The food has won a lot of awards, and it's easy to see why. The brisket, smoked sausage were both good. The ribs and chicken were very good (and spareribs, no less. I'd always rather have baby backs but these were the best prepared spareribs I've had). The french fries, billed as Kansas City's best, were awesome. There were two standout items, though. The baked beans are by far the best I've ever had, and I would go back just for these if I could. The other standout item was the sauce itself. I am convinced that this is the perfect BBQ sauce. You can even buy it online and try it for yourself if you don't believe me! Oklahoma Joe's BBQ Site. A great place to eat with very reasonable prices. You won't walk away hungry after a meal here. Overall grade: A- Six Flags St. Louis: Evel Knievel (walk-on to second to last row): this little GCI really packs a lot into a tight footprint! Customary GCI twisting first drop leading into a customary GCI twisting layout. The lift can't be more than 90 feet tall, but the ride keeps much of the speed until it hits the brakes. The double dip leading to the last drop was brilliant. This wasn't as good as Prowler, but it would still be better than every wood coaster at KI except for The Beast. Grade: B Mr. Freeze (walk-on to the second to front row): I can't say that I was incredibly impressed with this one. The backwards part, particularly going back over the tophat, was cool, but I don't know if I would have been happy getting off of this after having waited 30 minutes. I must say that the dual loading stations was neat, though. Grade: C Scooby Doo dark ride (20 minutes): this was, by far, the longest line in the park today. I remember seeing some people comment on this so we decided to check it out. Glad we did! My brother and I are always skeptical about going on these types of rides due to the lack of thrill, but we both thoroughly enjoyed this. He beat me 107,000 to 44,000, so I can't say that I'm a very good player, but I loved the fact that it was interactive, fun for the whole family, and long enough to get some value out of it. I can see where the love comes from! Do not miss this ride! Grade: A The Boss (walk-on to front row): this was an interesting experience. I've heard this ride was rough and that the front seat would be the best to try and avoid some of the rough spots. This is definitely an speed filled intense wooden coaster, make no mistake. I don't know if I'd really enjoy this ride nearly as much in the back (rougher), but I thought the front wasn't nearly as rough as I expected. I enjoyed the ride, I liked the layout and I liked the speed it carried all the way through. It's not re-ride for an hour fun but it definitely is a must hit. Grade: B- Screamin' Eagle (walk-on to second to last row): The Racer on steroids! Definitely the surprise coaster of the trip. The ride doesn't look like it would run well from off the ride, but the ride tracked well and had some surprisingly good air. The wooden setting was also a nice bonus. If I were to ride any of the three wooden coasters here I'd probably take this just barely over Evel Knievel. Surprisingly good! Grade: B+ Tony Hawk's Big Spin: a fun little spinning wild mouse style coaster. The spinning really does make a difference. All the kids who rode came off and immediately wanted a re-ride, so this obviously filled a gap in the family ride department. While fun, this ride is WAY too short, which in turns keeps me from rating this higher. As is, though...Grade: C+ Batman the Ride (walk-on to last row): someone here (I believe it was the Interpreter) mentioned that they thought this was the best of the Batman clones. This was my fourth of the bunch, and I have to say that I didn't notice a significant difference in the ride experience (although, the left turning zero-g roll is awesome in an outside seat), but I will say that the footchoppers on this ride did add spice! There are a couple of those moments and I will say that this was the best ride I've had on a Batman clone thus far, but only due to the footchoppers. Great force as always and I wish that some of the newer B&M inverteds could have had that same intensity. Grade: B+ Six Flags St. Louis is a quaint park, even for as big as it is. It's definitely no Magic Mountain or Great Adventure, but it has a nice charm to it that a lot of the bigger parks don't have. The wooden collection there is really tasty, the Scooby Doo dark ride was very nice and I'll definitely be back, hopefully when they add an Intamin Mega-Lite, as the park really needs a signature steel coaster. Overall grade: B- Thanks for reading!

That's definitely an interesting theory, as they only said it wouldn't get you wet (and not, it won't be a water ride). The only thing that I could see against that theory would be the 20 million euro price tag (>$23.5 million dollars, and that was at the low end in 2006). I can't see them spending that kind of cash on an attraction like that. I also couldn't see them (Cedar Fair) spending $25 mil on each of the KD and Carowinds coasters and then shelling out additional heavy cash for this. Vliegende Hollander: http://www.rcdb.com/3291.htm

Very nice report. SFMM is a great park, particularly for coaster lovers. Riddler's Revenge is by far the best standup, Tatsu is by far the best flyer, and X2 is one of the most unique rides ever. The ride operations at the park left a little to be desired but the scenery more than makes up for it while waiting in line. The park is truly beautiful. Goliath is a strange ride. You'd think a ride of that height would be more fun (and longer) than it is. Outside of the helix and lone airtime hill it didn't have any special characteristics, and even with the ride being a walk-on the day we were there once was enough.

Nice report thus far! We'll be taking a trip out that way later in September, so this report is a great way of helping us figuring out which parks to hit. Can't wait to see the next parks!

Delirium Guy, thank you for the review. I'll be heading down in December and I'd like to prioritize my time based on well respected posters reviews of the newer stuff. I was leaning towards SeaWorld anyway so thanks for the confirmation that I'm making the right choice! By the way, how good do you think capacity will be with this ride once it's fully operational?

That pretty much sums up what I thought after seeing the animation for the first time. I was really impressed with the Maverick and DB promo videos, but I didn't get that same feeling after looking at this. I'm sure that speed will be awesome, though, which really is what this coaster is all about anyway.

Agreed! I think DD: Ice packs more action into the layout, and you can never go wrong with the zero-g roll. I'm curious as to whether there will be a Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit review!

Quick update: There are now 16 left. I can't overstate how good this deal is, as you're basically getting the SkyZip for free!

The ride looks interesting, but I couldn't see myself traveling down there just to pick this one up. Manta, yes, HRRR, no. I definitely wouldn't make a trip down there to ride until later this year, because with all the problems it's already had there will probably be a few more to be ironed out. I wouldn't count on a consistent full daily operation for a while. I'm very curious to see some of the initial reviews, but honestly, this looks more like a bigger version of the Backlot Stunt Coaster to me than a true thrill ride.

^ That would be fantastic, if indeed it is true. I suppose we'll all know very shortly, although I do have to admit I'm very puzzled by why CF would announce this ride first. I would think they would want to build up the excitement leading up to this coaster, as this will way overshadow anything that Carowinds and Cedar Point will be putting up next year. A B&M hyper is nice, but compared to a giga that will most likely be MUCH higher and faster I can't imagine who will be talking about anything other than KD's project after it's announced.

If you have plans to visit Dollywood this year, make sure you check this offer out. This is one of the best deals I've seen for Dollywood yet. This offer includes: - one ticket to Dollywood - one ticket to their new SkyZip attraction Dollywood Ticket Offer Both items together are selling for $50. You need to use the Dollywood ticket by 12/31/09 and the SkyZip ticket by 10/31/09. I'd strongly suggest you check this offer out IMMEDIATELY if you are interested, because there are only 29 left as of the time of this post. Enjoy!

I respect everyone's opinions on this topic. There are been some very interesting comments/feelings/suggestions on this by a lot of posters. Having said that, I do find it interesting that some of the most respected posters on this forum have commented very little, if at all, on this topic. Take from that what you will. The only thing we know right now is that it won't operate the rest of the season. I truly believe that there won't be a firm decision by anyone at CF until they're good and ready to make it once they are confident all factors have been taken into account. Whether that's happened yet is speculation, at best. This is a big decision for all involved and I think that time needs to be allotted for that purpose, but it will be interesting to see if there is indeed writing on the wall.

We did ride front seat on TTD. I've generally found that Intamin coasters tend to be front seat rides, and TTD is no exception. There is NOTHING like riding in the front seat of this ride and having the wind hit you in the face at 120 mph. I generally won't wait for the front seat on normal visits, but the rush I get on that ride, and in the front seat in particular, is without equal.

Yeah, crowd levels were right around where this would have been the case on Sunday as well. Maverick was 1 1/2 hours every time we walked by, MF was around 75 minutes and TTD was right around an hour, when it was operating. Raptor was 1 1/2 hours around 1 but was around 20 minutes by the time we left the park at 7. If attendance is down at the park you definitely wouldn't know it from the crowds recently! I agree. I always say that a coaster doesn't have to be the tallest or the fastest to be great. I always get air on that thing, it's in my top 5 woodies. So many people walk right by Old Blue because it sits in Raptor's shadow.. it's sad. I'm guessing this is more of a front seat ride? We rode in the back seat and got one pop of air on the way out and nothing on the way back. It looked like there might be some opportunity for air up front, but based on our ride trying that front seat would be the only reason I'd get on it again. On a sidenote, I really think a good wooden coaster by GCI or Gravity Group would do the park wonders. My only issue with a GCI would be capacity, but a GCI twister, particularly near the beach, would be terrific. It seems as though most folks in the GP who've only been to KI and CP aren't big fans of the wooden coasters because of the reputation they have (Mean Streak and SOB come immediately to mind). I know I didn't particularly "get" why enthusiasts loved a good wooden coaster until I stepped foot on Thunderhead, Voyage, Raven, Legend and El Toro. I get it now, and I'm betting the GP would too if they installed a good one.

Overview: I was surfing Cedar Point's website last June and noticed that they were having a 3 Point shooting contest. We don't normally think these type of promotions are noteworthy, but this one was much, much different. The top prize included: * a suite to a Cleveland Cavaliers game for 18 people * a Cedar Point VIP tour for four people The promotion lasted for about three weeks. The qualifiers were announced and culminated with the shootout this time last August. As it turned out, I ended up winning the contest after my opponent in the finals rimmed out his last shot. We took the first part of the prize in December as we saw a game between the Cavs and Jazz. We scheduled the second prize, the Cedar Point VIP tour, for August 9. The Crew: My brother, my friends Cheryl and Dave, and yours truly On the Way There: As many of you know it is peak season up in the Sandusky area, and as such it is very difficult to find any decent hotel rooms for under $100 this time of year, even on discount sites or through AAA. We reasoned that if we're going to pay $200 for two rooms that we'd rather pay a little extra for a room at the Kalahari. We booked a King Lodge room at the Kalahari, and ended up paying $260. The Kalahari in Sandusky is more like a complex than a hotel. It would probably take you a good 10 minutes to walk from one end of the facility to the other! The room also included tickets to both the indoor and outdoor waterparks. The indoor waterpark is billed as America's largest, and the park truly is immense. You could easily spend a half day at the park and not get bored. The room itself was really nice. The room came equipped with a kitchen (stove, microwave, refrigerator, sink) and had a separate bedroom along with a sofa sleeper that could easily sleep two. There was a nice size living room style space, and we had a balcony that overlooked the outdoor waterpark, a nice touch. The room, from the beds to the living space to the bathrooms were all very clean, and I'd give it an A on that basis alone. The waterparks were just icing on the cake, and I wish we had more time here to explore both waterparks. I would have a harder time paying for a room here with only one or two people, but it's PERFECT for groups traveling in group of three or four, particularly families with small kids who need something to occupy their time in a fun way. Overall grade: A The Trip: We arrived at the Cedar Point front gates around 9:55. We stopped in Guest Services and explained we were there for the VIP Tour. Debra from Guest Services explained that we needed to meet our tour guide at the Speed Zone by Top Thrill Dragster. She escorted us to the early entry gate, and we were just getting past the Raptor entrance when they let the GP go at 10. MASSES of people flooded to Raptor and towards Millennium Force and TTD. It was then I truly appreciated the power of early entry every other time I go up there. We made it back to the Speed Zone around 10:05. We noticed our tour guide, Lena, standing at the front entrance. After we made our introductions we decided the first stop would be Millennium Force. The VIP Tour comes with three wonderful benefits: front-of-the-line access to all rides, 2 free on-ride photos per person, and reservations for both meals and shows. The only catch to the front-of-the-line access is that once you ride you have to go ride something else before you go back for a re-ride, but I thought this was a more than fair policy. We made our way past the Millennium Force entrance and noticed the line 15 minutes after park opening was already an hour. I will say that it was very strange to simply walk past the entrance and not get in line. I also realized that we didn't have to wait in that hour long line, so that more than made up for it! We walked up the exit ramp and took the front two rows. WOW. MF was absolutely FLYING around the course yesterday. The first drop isn't quite as good from those first two rows but you get the airtime on the two other big hills and that, IMO, is well worth the tradeoff of riding in the back. The first big hill after the overbank we got nice floater air on for the first time since our first ride in 2001. The second big hill, on the return, was just insane. Usually you can get some good floater air on that hill, but the air on the hill today was ejecting you out of your seat. Yes, I said it, ejector air on MF! (KI Man, yes, I can vouch that this is true now!) I still can't believe it a day later. These were, by far, the best MF rides any of us had ever enjoyed. I haven't ridden Bizarro @ SFNE, but that's the only ride I can visualize taking the #1 steel spot away from this ride. Maverick was running true to form today. I know some people on the boards have mentioned it may have been a little slower in the launch tunnel recently, but we didn't get that today. Dave rode this for the first time today and absolutely loved it, as we all did. The ride is craziness from start to finish, and that first airtime hill is one of the best moments on any ride, anywhere. I have to agree with The Interpreter that the difference between the front and backseat of this ride is gigantic. The ride is world class in the front. It's an average steel coaster in the back. You don't get nearly the amount of air, nor do you get the visuals like you do in the front. Because of that it becomes a much more difficult task to lean into the turns (thus, avoiding headbanging). This is a such a special ride. Other quick news and notes from the trip: TTD was up and down all day, so we only got one ride in. I don't think the ride stayed open yesterday for more than 2 hours at a time while were there, and went down three separate times. Lena, our tour guide, said that most of the folks who come on the tour want to ride TTD more than anything else (no surprise), but because of its high profile nature everyone also knows that it's prone to being down a bunch. I wonder if that fact elevates how good this ride is in some people's minds. I will say that our one ride was really, really good. Magnum was rougher than normal. I must say a big thank you to Tigellinus for the tip to simply tighten your seat belt hard and keep the lap bar relatively loose. It helped IMMENSELY in handling those bunny hills! We finally got on Iron Dragon, Blue Streak, Disaster Transport and Wildcat for the first time. The first three weren't noteworthy, but Wildcat was a much more fun coaster than it looked! I can only imagine how awesome it would be if the cars were able to run full speed into those drops! I am probably the biggest fan of Famous Dave's Rich and Sassy sauce out there, so we decided to eat there for lunch. I thought the food here, particularly with what they were charging, was average at best. The best way I can sum this up was to say that the food didn't have nearly as much flavor as I was expecting, and even the sauce couldn't cover that up all the way. The service was OK, the food was OK, and as a whole the restaurant, despite the charming decor, was just OK. Definitely not what I was expecting going in. The show Signed, Sealed, Delivered was terrific. The girls as a whole sounded more together than the guys, but there was one male performer who had a recording studio quality voice. I can't remember his name offhand, but if you see the show you'll immediately know who it is. I highly recommend this show, and I'm usually not much of a show guy! Summary: The VIP tour was truly awesome. Lena was terrific as a tour guide and really let us control the show, making recommendations when requested of her and simply leading us to the rides when we were in full ride mode. The time went by really, really quickly, but at the end of the day I think we all agreed we had gotten a ton out of the day and had more than our fill of rides. We were talking about whether or not we'd actually pony up the $375 per person ourselves and do the trip. Everyone is different, but we probably wouldn't do it again simply because (1) we live close enough here in Cincinnati where we can go enough during the season, and more importantly, (2) we know that we can go during times of the year when crowds will be much more manageable. The main perk of the VIP tour is the front-of-the-line access, but when you can get on MF and TTD early and late in the season with 15 minute waits or less it really doesn't make too much of a difference in terms of how many rides you can get in doing it yourself during those deader times vs. the VIP tour, thereby negating the VIP tours main benefit. The VIP tour is useful if (1) you live far enough away that you can't get to CP on a regular basis, (2) if you only have one day to do the park and absolutely want to make sure you can hit everything you want to hit, (3) if you have to do the park during peak season and most importantly, (4) if you have $375 per person in discretionary income. It looks like the price point wasn't discouraging too many people, because they had booked their allotment of 5 VIP tours per day for the last few weeks leading up to yesterday. Thanks for reading!

Most of the coasters that dominate the Golden Tickets and various enthusiasts polls usually are coasters that are taller. This topic will focus on the best of the smaller, specifically those coasters under 100 feet tall. Coasters that just miss the 100' barrier include: Maverick - Cedar Point (105') Thunderhead - Dollywood (100.5') Any of the Batman the Rides (105') Prowler - WOF (102') My personal favorite is Raven at Holiday World, particularly at night. If the coaster was a few hundred feet longer it'd be near the top of my wood coaster list, but as is it's a great ride and for it's size is really impressive. I can't wait to ride Phoenix at Knoebels to compare. Let's hear what you got!

I agree 100%. I'd also lump Behemoth in the "it's better in the front" camp. The airtime is MUCH stronger up front on both DB and Behemoth. I think this is a by-product of the new train designs, because all of the old train designs I've ridden (Raging Bull, Nitro, Goliath @ SFOG) have all been much better in the back seat.