Buckeye Brad

Yes, that area was the station. I remember it well, because I took a spill down those stairs as a 7 year old (1981). I scraped up my chin and fought the tears the entire ride. Who remembers the giant set of "teeth" at the end of the ride? They were kind of like big vertical blinds that hung over the flume, near the exit out of the building. Right before your boat reached them, they raised up out of the way, and then dropped after you passed through. The effect didn't work as well if the boats were close together, because then the teeth didn't come all the way down in between boats. I think the teeth survived the Smurfs changeover, but maybe were removed in the late 80s. Another memory was the ice cold air in the winter sections (Smurf version only?). Felt so good on a hot day.

To answer the original question: If they tear it down I'd love to see these 3 things: 1. Family flat ride 2. Thrill flat ride 3a. Big epic Gravity Group woodie (like the Voyage or Fireball) or 3b. B&M terrain (footchoppers!) invert. Ideally it would have a new train design for better visibility for inside riders. The Deja-Vu train design was unliked by many, so perhaps B&M could come up with a better solution.

Ride the Zephyr? YES. One my favorites. Rides like the Monster and tilt-a-whirls make me queezy, but for some reason the Zephyr feels great. It might be the best inverted coaster at KI. Seriously though, what other ride gives such a smooth, peaceful sensation of flying?

Not necessarily. I'm not a coaster engineer, but please humor me. Imagine if Voyage was exactly the same as it is today, but dig a 60 trench at the base of the first drop (154'). Now "extend" the first drop into that trench. Now you have a 214' foot drop, like Son of Beast. My understanding (and ride experience) is that the drop on Son of Beast works fine, despite its height and speed. The problem is traversing the Rose Bowl at high speed. In theory, the Voyage train would crest the second hill and traverse the rest of the course just as it does today. The only difference is a longer and faster first drop. My point is that a wooden hypercoaster doesn't have to be rougher than any other wooden coaster, as long as the other elements (curves, turns, banks) are designed to be taken at reasonable speeds. To answer your original question, I think the biggest barriers to another hyperwoodie / looping woodie are cost, maintenance, and the fact that steel does hyper and loops just fine. Personally, I agree with you: I'd love to see more giant wooden coasters.

My understanding is that this would be just as hard as putting B&M steel track onto SOB. The problem is that traditional wooden track and Intamin track must be supported differently. So they couldn't just stick Intamin track on there. They would also have to significantly modify all the supports. Truthfully, all that modification might cost more than starting from scratch. Even if it were economically feasible, I can't imagine Intamin ever doing it because of liability. That said, Six Flags in investing a good deal to "renovate " Texas Giant. It will be interesting to see what they are actually doing, if they succeed, and if their strategy could work for other big wooden coasters.

I'm very curious about the cost to tear it down, and yes my $4 mill was just a wag. If the cost is closer to $16 mill, all the more reason to think about putting some lipstick on this pig. By "epic" I was simply thinking something BIG, exciting, perhaps record breaking. Griffon, Maverick, Intimidator305, etc. No problem at all Dvo. I'm really just throwing out ideas here, since my wife and 4 year old couldn't care less about these things. Rip away, I appreciate the feedback. Keep it coming. Clarity is much better than agreement.

Shark, I-Ordinarily keep sports out of these forums, but what the heck. Back to the topic at hand, my whole rationale for a makeover is this..."Hey, we can get rid of the problem areas of SOB, and market a new world class coaster, all in one shot, for much less $ than starting from scratch." But like Shaggy pointed out, the big additions and expenses are likely planned out for the next 3-4 years. I don't think KI wants SOB to be SBNO for 3-4 years. I suspect it's now or never.

"I'm not riding Son of Beast. It's not safe". (RollerCoaster Tycoon joke)

Thanks for the quick reply Shaggy. As usual, you've provided some good food for thought. 2. KI (Cedar Fair) is not looking to spend $20 million on a coaster anytime soon, considering the debt and recent investments in the chain. - "See, I view the investments as a sign that CF IS willing to spend the money on coasters. This year's announcements alone signal to me that they aren't about to get stingy now" Great point. I was thinking they might scale back after such big investments, but I like your theory much better. 4. The public (and insurance company) would buy a partially re-made SOB (a la Kennywood Tbolt and Phantom) -"You sure about that? I have a friend that swears he'll never ride it again... changes or not. He says "I was lucky that I didn't get hurt the first time." You can't erase that notion from people's minds with the removal of a "rosebowl"." I have no idea about the insurance company, but I do think most folks could get excited about "extreme makeover SOB-edition". Again, I'm talking about a radically different post-drop layout, including tunnels, fog, the kitchen sink, a comfortable ride, and a new name. If the changes really are exciting, and if media and early riders rave about the changes (all big IFs), I'd expect most skeptics to give it another shot. Who wants to miss out on a great coaster? One disadvantage is that besides the lift hill and drop, the current layout is mostly hidden from the midway. A new layout on that land would still be mostly hidden. This limits the "curb appeal" / WOW factor / marketability of a possible makeover. If Vortex got a new layout after the drop, of course it would be plain as day to everyone in the park. I do think some creative thinking by all parties (coaster designers, insurance companies, Cedar Fair) could save this coaster, and be a home run for everyone. But I'm starting to agree with you that the Son of Beast is history. If it does get torn down, I can only imagine the "legend" that SOB will have 30 years from now, like The Bat, Riverview Bobs, and Crystal Beach Cyclone.

Shaggy, I've enjoyed reading your KI insights over the years. Would you please offer your thoughts on these 2 options: (these costs are just my guesses, please correct them as you see fit) Option #1 Tear it Down SOB total removal cost: $4,000,000 Major new coaster cost: $20,000,000 (B&M or Intamin) Total: $24,000,000 or... Option #2 Keep the station, lift, and first drop, but replace the rest and re-brand the coaster Rose bowl + misc track removal cost: $2,000,000 New track design and build cost: $6,000,000 (perhaps a Voyage or Thunderhead style layout) New trains: $3,000,000 Total: $11,000,000 I'm making the following assumptions: (please correct these too if needed) 1. KI (Cedar Fair) would like to open a major new coaster in the next 4 years (consistent with their history) 2. KI (Cedar Fair) is not looking to spend $20 million on a coaster anytime soon, considering the debt and recent investments in the chain 3. Tearing the ride out and NOT replacing it with something equally epic might hurt their image with paying guests 4. The public (and insurance company) would buy a partially re-made SOB (a la Kennywood Tbolt and Phantom) 5. The lift hill and drop are not part of the "roughness" problem What do you think?

I remember a funny radio ad from 2000 (opening year). You may recall that Son of Beast was closed for several weeks after it opened, and this ad promoted it's "grand re-opening". The announcer in the ad said something like: "Son of Beast has been a real BRAT, but now he's on his BEST behavior". I thought it was a clever way to address the situation.

Took my wife and kids to Coney yesterday (Labor Day). Most lines were very short from 11-2, so we enjoyed lots of riding and little waiting. After 2:00 the crowds from the president's speech filled the park and we headed out. I've read all the comments about the unlikelihood of Coney adding a new coaster in the near future. I understand those reasons, but hey, it's still fun to dream about "what if?". So in an "alternate" future where Coney decides to install a new coaster... Name: Shooting Star Designer: Gravity Group Type: Wooden out-and-back Imagine how cool this would look to folks crossing the I-275 bridge and driving along Kellogg ave. The local news would go nuts over this, with the nod to Coney history and the "hometown" designer. There are still enough people around here who remember the old Shooting Star and would love to take their grandkids to ride this. People in Cincy love this kind of nostalgia. Design it with a few tunnels, airtime, and an aggressive yet accessible ride experience (like the Raven) and this would be a home run. Fun for all and unique enough from KIs coasters. Logistically it would likely need steel supports and high enough elevation to protect the wooden track from potential floods. But the space seems to be there, and the high visibility from I-275 is a huge bonus. Its far from Riverbend and PNC pavillion so the sound would only affect Moonlight Gardens. Only problem: where to get $5-10 million to build it. But like I said, it's fun to dream.

Another thing to think about...you may get stuck on the ride. It seems every year I am riding a coaster and the train stops on a block break for 5-15 minutes (station cleanup, loading delay, etc.) It's not inconceivable that you could be stuck longer than that. If your child is on a bench or in a "corral" an expects you back in 3 minutes, what will go through his mind when 30 minutes pass and you're still not back? I would rather let my older child ride alone than let my younger one wait alone. These kinds of decisions are one of the hardest parts of parenting. 4 years old = no way 10 years old = sure But where is the "cutoff"? It depends on the maturity of the child and the circumstances. For me, my kids will never leave my sight at KI until I am ABSOLUTELY sure they can protect themselves, even though KI has a great track record for child safety.