cedar fair

[RingMaster]

Unfortunately in the Paramount years, much of what was so great about KI was lost. The Taft family treated KI like a crown jewel and nurtured that park. In the Paramount years KI seemed to just get swallowed by a huge corporation whose specialty was not theme parks[....]Worse, the park got dirty. If a park is not clean, it is worthless even if you do have the tallest and fastest coaster in the world. While I must say that the employees at KI in all my 35 years of going there have always been wonderful, among the friendliest, they did get a bit careless in the Paramount years. For example, I often would see employees with shirt tails out, which is very unprofessional.

I am sure Cedar Fair is very demanding. They do have high standards for their employees. And I ask, what is wrong with that? If you want customers to continue to patronize you, you had better have high standards. Remember, without the customers, everyone is out of job.

Why do people keep saying that the park is cleaner now, with CF in charge, than last year, or the year before when Paramount ruled?

Look, I know I can't attempt to say what it was like back in the days of the Taft family reign because I was not born then. In fact, the only memories I have of Kings Island are from when Paramount owned it. So it would be unlawful for me to say Paramount was the best thing that ever happened to KI when I have never been to the park pre-Paramount.

I will, however, say that we've maintained a very well-kept park in terms of the Ecology department since I started working there back in 2004. We've been at the top of our game when it came to the Nights of Fire event in July, the Spirit Song concerts right after that, and even the three years that the Nick Parade was in town. We've even had the managers of Cedar Fair come down and flat-out tell us that our Ecology crew was the best crew out of ALL of the Paramount Parks, even better than....you guessed it, Cedar Point!

....now, why they need to, all of a sudden, decide to take away ALL perks and incentives (no more meal tickets for working all-day, no Funcentive Points going towards free tickets to other, non-Cedar Fair/Paramount Parks for doing a good job, etc.) and assume that, oh, we need to be steered in the right direction because, apparently, we're not doing a good job in our department, is beyond me. I shall list the occurrences for my typing all this up:

1) We received a new Operations manager because, somehow, two of our really good managers left Kings Island in search of other jobs (gee, I wonder why THAT happened). From what I've been told, he used to be a Park Services manager way back when in, like, 2000, or something, and managed to get back into KI by means of Cedar Fair (IDK, I'm not a psychic).

Anyway, he decides that we need assistance and that we can't do our job proper without HIS help. Meaning that, oh no, we need a SEVENTH crew just to help detail around the park by washing CARS. We've got several attractions and large pieces of scenery that need cleaning, repainting, and repair, and they're frickin worried about the darn TOYOTA SUV s that no one ever bothers to give a glance toward. Oh, and to start that seventh crew, we need to promote almost EVERY pan and broomer we have to the Truck/Utility Crew, which means that we've had a total of about, oh, ONE pan and broomer opening every area of the park and about two to three pan and broomers closing each area of the park. Need I also remind you this is also usually on Saturdays?

2) These other managers aren't very likable, either. They always feel they need to check up on us CONSTANTLY to make sure we're 'doing a good job.' Um, yeah, I think they need to be checking up more on a few ride associates or some food associates to make sure THEY'RE doing their job instead of us.

Not to mention it was Cedar Fair's decision to make both regular associates and their supervisors wear the same outfits. Meaning there are no more white shirts to tell whether or not a person is a supervisor (dang-blasted Admissions peeps stole all the white shirts, and even then it's hard to tell who's a sup and who's not). And they have the nerve to go and tell us that our supervisors can't walk with line associates while on duty because, oh, then it looks like it's just two regular associates walking together, and we can't have that. Which means that sups can't talk to their other people while in the park, so that leaves us to 'fend for ourselves,' so to speak.

Oh, I forgot to add, and you'll LOVE this, we can't be seen carrying a cup of water while in view of the guests on duty. A CUP of WATER. We have to go BEHIND THE SCENES in order to drink our water, and then, get this, we get in trouble for BEING behind the scenes, because, apparently, it is implied that we aren't doing our job.

3) Which brings me to what godfather was already talking about with our other new manager, who had been with the lifeguards in Boomerang Bay at the beginning of the season, and has also been a Park Services manager up at Geauga Lake. Just like an impressionable little brother, he feels like he, too, needs to change Ecology so that it fits HIS standards from his experiences at GL.

Okay, I'm sorry, but I've been up to Geauga Lake several times already, and, I must say, Geauga Lake is a completely DIFFERENT park than Kings Island. I don't understand where these people get the idea that KI needs to be managed in the same perspective that Cedar Point and Geauga Lake are, because they are totally different parks to begin with. Kinzel blatantly pointed out I don't know how many times that Cedar Point was a thrill park and Kings Island a family park, and that it needed to be kept that way. From what I can conceive from this, managing a thrill park has somewhat different needs and qualities than a theme/family park like Kings Island, so those two should get it through their skulls that Kings Island is DIFFERENT than Cedar Point.

For instance, our new manager and the other full-timers should have darn well known how the weather is down here; it's completely unpredictable. The past several days have well reached into the 100s with the heat index, and there have been days when freak storms have made the temperatures drop into the 60s in the blink of an eye. They should know that we need to sit down and rest for ten minutes in the restroom closet whenever the weather, or the intense amount of crowds, gets too much for us, especially when working the restrooms at the Front Gate.

So, um, yeah, all of this has made pretty much every good worker we have, including me and godfather, leave at the end of this season, which includes:

-all three of our current Eco managers

-six of our twelve Eco supervisors

We'll only have one real Eco manager next year (one sup is getting promoted to manager) because the other two managers are coming from Rides. And to add to the mess, the other managers want to have 21 SUPERVISORS for next year's department (counting the new Truck Detail Crew), which puts three supervisors with each crew for each shift (Open, Swing, and Close). So that means we'll have to promote a total of about 15 new supervisors for next year. Which, unfortunately, means that the department'll be run by a bunch of newbs (this doesn't count for the new manager and however many sups there are that do come back).

[Browntggrr]

^ You may want to consider editing out people's names.

Speaking for your job is one thing. Speaking for someone else, well, that is a much different story.

[DeLorean Rider]

Quote Deleted By Me

I can assure you that the full time park ops managers DO read these forums. Many times did I walk into one of their offices when coasterbuzz or KIC was on the screen. You wouldnt be the first to get fired for posting on here. Believe me, I've had to warn several people on my crews because full time managers have informed me of their postings.

[RingMaster]

EDIT: Already did, Browntggrr. Thanks for telling me that. Being mad also means being cloudy-minded at times.

[KIBeast]

Well, let me tell you about my first job. I worked at a mexican restaurant as a dishwasher. Minimum wage and zero perks. Did I like my job? Not really. I went home wet & smelly. I really just enjoyed the people I worked with. At one time, I wanted to be manager at that place. I had really high hopes only to have them dashed later by an inept owner. I wound up working for them for 10 years and the only benefit I ever received was a weeks paid vacation. It was after nine years and failing to get the management job that I decided that I needed a new direction in life. I would never make great money nor would I ever see any other benefits. So, I went to the junior college for business management and have been an accountant since then. So, I do know what it's like to work for minimum wage and no perks.

[markr]

Just wanted to respond to a few things.

I am not a businessman, so I am not really qualified to make a judgment about how the parks are performing financially. However, I don't feel that I have to be qualified as an expert to say that the amusement park industry is a service industry to serve the customer. Customers pay their hard earned money for a service, ie a day or a season of fun. I understand that it is not an easy job to work at an amusement park. You do work very hard. I too have a very difficult job where I have to deal with irate customers and there is more work than there is people to do the work. But guess what? The customer does not care. If the customer does not like your product or service, they have the freedom to go elsewhere. Remember, without your customers, you have no job.

Speaking from the perspective of a customer I have been going to KI since 1972 when the park opened. I have spent thousands of dollars of my hard earned money over the years and have been a loyal customer. In return for my loyalty it is not unreasonable to expect a spotless park, friendly and professional employees and enforcement of the no line jumping rules. Let me say that all and all the employees at KI have always had a very positive attitute, ie have been very friendly. However, despite what your ecology reports might say, I call them as I see them and in the past few years I have seen very untidy rest rooms. That is not just a service issue, that is a health issue. I have also observed such things as widespread cutting in line and employees with their shirt tails out.

In contrast, at CP in the past few years, I have observed a clean, spotless park. Police patrol the line queues for line cutters, people smoking or people overall just being unruly. The employees' are always neat and well groomed. And I don't understand the assertion of CP being a thrill park and KI being a "family" park. CP is a very family friendly park. There is not one but 2 huge kiddie areas ( King Arthur's Court and Camp Snoopy as well as many other kiddie attractions on the midways.) I have seen management at CP very actively maintain the family friendly atmosphere by seeing that shirts with obscene material be turned inside out.

Let me say that I think all of you who work at KI are wonderful and special people. I just think you have lacked the leadership in the past few years to make you the best in the industry. I feel that Cedar Fair is off to a terrific start in bringing out the best in all of you. Once again the park is spotless like it used to be. Ride capacity has improved. ( My only complaint is the lack of security to patrol the busy line queues to prevent line cutting and unruly guests. It is not perfect yet but with time I am confident that things will improve.) Try not to take it personally when managers give you feedback. (Believe me I get such feedback in my job all the time.) They are simply doing their jobs to make the park the best it can be in the industry.

Some of you may think that I and others want KI to turn into another CP. I would say that you have it backwards. In my opinion the old Taft vision of KI was the inspiration for CP as it is now. It is no secret that Dick Kinzel has always been fond of KI and I do not feel I am speaking out ot turn to say he made CP what it is today by looking at KI for inspiration.

[The Interpreter]

And my experience has been the exact reverse. In all my theme/amusement park travels, I have never so consistently seen filthy rest rooms as I have at Cedar Point. In fact, clean restrooms is one area that, in my opinion, Paramount Parks excelled in.

At Cedar Point, I have encountered stopped up toilets, no toilet paper, filthy sinks, full trash cans and even smelly messes. I have never seen any such a thing at Kings Island, either this year or ever in the past.

Yes, Paramount sometimes didn't keep the outside of the park as clean as Cedar Point, that I will admit. But Cedar Fair could have learned a lot about restroom sanitation from Kings Island, in my opinion.

You see, filthy restrooms and Cedar Point is an association in my mind that I have had for many years now. ESPECIALLY at the men's room near Magnum. Very undersized and ALWAYS filthy. ALWAYS. At closing, at opening, and every time in between.

Sigh.

Oh, I forgot to mention stopped up water fountains. The one outside the arcade has been stopped up on every visit I have made to Cedar Point this summer. EVERY visit. The chiller on it doesn't work either. The better to sell $3.99 drinks, I guess. I note also the large water fountain collection outside those Magnum restrooms has also been removed and replaced with a couple of small units, both of which normally have stopped up drains. Pardon me, but yuck!

[markr]

I hope my last message was not in any way taken as derogatory by the KI staff. Nothing can be further from the truth as I think you are all wonderful and special. KI is special to me as it is to many other native Cincinnatians. We see KI not just as another theme park but a continuation of the heritage that started with Coney Island. We simply want KI's history and tradition to continue and the only way for it to continue is to maintain high quality. (Remember how close CP came to turning into a housing developement? ) If KI were to ever close, that would be just as tragic if not worse than the Reds moving out of town.

[DeMoN]

To start off with I don't want to hear anything about minimum wage from current employees. When I started out in the work force I too started out at minimum wage and let me tell you $6.85 an hour at minimum wage is far better than the $3.75 I use to make. the 2 jobs I worked making minimum wage had no perks and believe me working at a car wash and a nursery you definitely felt the sweltering heat and even had to deal with the freezing winter. As far as resteraunt work goes keep in mind that a waitor makes around $2.00 and hour. They make their money off of tips which will greatly vary from day to day or week to week. Those tips also depend on their customer care and the services they provide to those customers.

The job I work in now if you want to see safety you need to look no further. We are completely focused on safety of our workers. Not to mention the safety of our customers since we deal with aviation, one false step and planes are falling out of the sky. We strongly stress in the Zero/Zero safety idea's. Meaning Zero LWC's (Lost Workday Cases) Zero RI's (Recordable Injuries) and they stress it highly, so much so that it has been 5 years since we have had a recordable injury. We are members of safety first organization and participate in DuPont's STOP card program to recognize and fix problems before an injury can happen. Matter of fact our company has safety principles we have to work under that are printed out on our ID badges for us to see everyday. Those Safety Principles are: Accidents and injuries are preventable, Safety is a line-management accountability, You are responsible for your own safety, You are obligated to stop a job or refuse to perform a job if it is not safe or cannot be performed safely, Efforts in safety will yield results in safety, and most importantly Safety is a condition of your employment. We also have to sit through safety meetings every month where they train you to work safely in following proper SOP's etc. So safety is big in a lot of companies, and I would think it is just as important at an Amusement Park where millions of people visit each year as it is for us in the Aviation industry.

Last I will comment on the cleanliness of Kings Island and Kings Island only. I have visited other parks but no park have I visited as frequently as I have Kings Island. I can not comment on Cedar Point or any other park because I have been to those parks far less than KI. I have been visiting Kings Island since 1977. I noticed someone on here mentioned they have only known the park since Paramount took over, and that is a shame really. Kings Island pre Paramount was an absolute treat, it was clean exciting, and just an absolute gorgeous park. During the Paramount era I noticed as well as the rest of my family the downgrade in cleanliness and friendliness. There were years where I was absolutely appalled at how unkept the park was. Trash all over the ground and Restrooms that were just in terrible shape. I remember frequently seeing the workers who were suppose to be cleaning having hours long meeting and chat sessions in the bathrooms etc. In other words not doing their jobs, mind you this was no 2-10 minute break to chat. Many times were there rude comments thrown out there. The last 2 years I have noticed more trash cans around the park, cleaner pathways, less meetings between workers for an hour or more to chat with each other. Friendlier workers towards the guests and in most cases vice versa. I remember vividly the nasty gum all over the que's on wood rails and just covered just about any where in the park during the Paramount era. I just visited the park on August 3rd and the contrast is HUGE absolutely HUGE with the pathways clean and gum no longer on the rails wood etc of the rides. Matter of fact I think I seen maybe 3 wads of gum total all day while at the park. Those 3 wads were high up on wood at the exit of The Beast and looked rather fresh. So I would say that there has been a big change in the cleanliness. That is not coming from a worker but a patron. For the most part on our visit with the exception of a couple of food stand we visited and maybe 2 rides all the employees were extremely friendly. The Beast crew was the most generous and friendly crew I have seen since the pre Paramount era. Take it for what it is worth but that is my opinion, my wife's opinion, and my 2 kids opinion. The latter are set and ready for another trip and that is what makes me want to come back.

[Dvo]

I'm just curious as to why you spent a few hours watching employees "meet" in a bathroom.

[DeMoN]

I didn't spend a few hours watching employees meet in the bathroom. When you go to the bathroom and 2 employees are in there talking then get in line for a ride for 2 hours upon exiting the ride you go to the bathroom and the same 2 employees are in there talking it becomes pretty obvious. It also doesn't have to be in a bathroom, I have observed them doing this out in the open in the past. All while standing in line for a ride. You can watch a lot of things while waiting in line for a ride.

[RingMaster]

And my experience has been the exact reverse. In all my theme/amusement park travels, I have never so consistently seen filthy rest rooms as I have at Cedar Point. In fact, clean restrooms is one area that, in my opinion, Paramount Parks excelled in.

At Cedar Point, I have encountered stopped up toilets, no toilet paper, filthy sinks, full trash cans and even smelly messes. I have never seen any such a thing at Kings Island, either this year or ever in the past.

Yes, Paramount sometimes didn't keep the outside of the park as clean as Cedar Point, that I will admit. But Cedar Fair could have learned a lot about restroom sanitation from Kings Island, in my opinion.

You see, filthy restrooms and Cedar Point is an association in my mind that I have had for many years now. ESPECIALLY at the men's room near Magnum. Very undersized and ALWAYS filthy. ALWAYS. At closing, at opening, and every time in between.

Sigh.

And this is why I've had so many people stop me in the park and congratulate me on how clean the park is and how clean the restrooms are compared to Cedar Point and Geauga Lake. Even BEFORE Cedar Fair took over.

Now that we're under CF, chances are that, come next year, you'll see the same uncleanliness and disorder at Cedar Point seep into Kings Island, as a good half of the hard-working employees are leaving THIS year. And all because new management is attempting to "fix" what ain't broke with our department.

Give you a perfect example: I already mentioned the guests complementing us for the overall cleanliness of the park compared to CP, as well as the BIG bigwigs of Cedar Fair coming down and saying that WE were the best Ecology crew out of the entire theme park chain (Cedar Fair & Paramount) last year. Well, we also got SEVEN Crew of Excellence awards last year, which, apparently, was more awards than any single ride crew in the park (I don't know if this is exactly true or not).

But within the past few months, and especially with this heat wave, they're pushing us to the brink of insanity. Like with what DeMoN was talking about, with the associates sitting in the closet for an implied two hours. What, would you like us to check a restroom every three hours or something, so you won't have to see us in the same place twice in one day? Or with not being able to walk around with a cup of water in our hands, because it looks 'unprofessional':

"Excuse me, guys, we'd rather you drink your water behind the scenes because it looks unprofessional towards the guests if you drink it in front of them."

....okay. We'll just stand back here behind the restroom, then.

Then they come and say that being behind the scenes means that we're 'not doing our job:'

"Sorry, guys, I can't have you folks back here. It gives us the impression that you're not doing your job, and we need you guys to look professional in front of our guests."

...............wha...? Okay, fine, we'll just chill for a minute in the restroom closet due to the extreme heat/humidity.

Almost like clockwork, they come in and say we need to keep working and not take a quick break because, then, it looks like we're 'slacking off:'

"Hey, you guys just sitting in here on the clock? Sorry, but we need you guys to keep moving and keep working out there, so there's no reason to be sitting in the closet or taking a break or anything like that."

.................

Oh, and this one's my favorite; the supervisors not being able to walk around with their associates and vice-versa, because then it looks like we're, once again, 'not doing our jobs:'

"Hey guys, I'm gonna need you two to split up a bit. It's not that you folks aren't working, I can see that you're working hard out there. It's just that from a distance you guys look like two regular associates just walking together, and we can't have that because it looks unprofessional."

......uhh, yeah, 'cause your 'smart' asses decided to make line associates and supervisors look EXACTLY THE SAME, and, apparently, the big black radios hanging off the back of our shorts isn't a dead giveaway that he or she's a supervisor.

In 105-degree weather and we're supposed to keep working, non-stop, without a cup of water in our hands, not being able to drink it either with or without guests around, not being able to sit in the somewhat-air-conditioned restroom closets (I'm a restroom associate, by the way) for two seconds, and you're also expecting us to keep ourselves HYDRATED, too? I'm sorry, but lukewarm fountain water that tastes like raw sewage in the WATER PARK won't cut it. In fact, that won't cut it ANYWHERE in the park.

PS: I did not make up those quotes to prove a point; these were actual quotes from full-timers that enjoy eating at the associate restaurant for ten minutes to prove that, oh, they do care about us enjoy being around fellow inferior line associates.

[DeMoN]

To begin with seeing the employees in restrooms for 2 hours was something I had observed during the Paramount tenure NOT Cedar Fair tenure. The past 2 years at Kings Island while under Cedar Fair I have noticed a big difference. Not just in this area but in the area of bublegum no longer stuck to things.

Another thing welcome to the real world of employment. I don't care where you go you are more than likely going to have a manager you do not like that will put lofty expectations upon you. As I said I have worked at a carwash for minimum wage $3.75 at the time in the hottest of days and the coldest of days. You don't get much shade and get very little hydration. On top of that any tips given you had to split with the person helping you detail the car. Sitting in a car in 98 degree weather with 40% humidity detailing it isn't exactly the coolest job in the world. Working at a Nursery out in the heat answering people's questions about perennials and annuals, loading their vehicles with 60 lbs. bags of Top Soil mulch and peat moss while not being allowed to accept tips, taking care of the plants watering them blocking them stocking them again without much hydration isn't exactly a dream job. In the winter at the nursery you have to be out in the freezing weather for hours answering questions about X-mas trees. Loading X-mas trees onto and into cars without tips again not a dream job.

Working for General Shale making bricks and loading them on skids and then trucks in hottest days of the summer and coldest days of the winter wasn't ideal either but it payed a little more. Working in a foundry pouring steel cast molds isn't exactly cushy again but it paid more. I have paid my dues and now I am using CAD programs and doing a job that provides some cooler temperatures and better pay. It definitely wasn't an easy road to this job however.

[RingMaster]

I guess I should make a quick reply by saying that we don't get paid minimum wage as Ecology Associates. Actually, we get paid about two-four bucks more than that. Me and a few of the returning restroom workers this year are at a $10.35 salary.

But I guess the only thing keeping me from quitting, aside from the money, is FearFest. Oh, how I love letting out all of my frustrations among the teenage girl population around the park at night in a mask. It amuses me.

[Browntggrr]

Oh, how I love letting out all of my frustrations among the teenage girl population around the park at night in a mask. It amuses me.

Is there something you would like to talk about?

You never know, Chris Hansen might troll these boards.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10912603/

[Liza]

Thank you DeMoN... you took the words right out of my mouth.

As with many company takeovers... change is a norm and there will more than likely be more changes. However, based on many peoples opinions of Paramount... Cedar Fair will likely be changing KI for the better. I can definitely think of other parks ran by companies not mentioned above that have very poor planning and a poor experience. I believe people should stop complaining about the little things and enjoy what Cedar Fair does right... the RIDES... or are you going to the park to use the bathroom only???

[The Interpreter]

No, I am not going to the park to use the bathroom only, but families and people who go once a year or twice sure do use the bathrooms there, and they remember....and how. Perhaps this is one of many reasons that Cedar Fair admissions are down and Six Flags' are up. One of last year's MAJOR emphases at Six Flags was bathroom cleanliness.

[erniebald57]

Speaking as a huge fan and observer of the amusement park industry and a Kings Island customer since the age of 1 for the past 25 years....

I for one am still happy that Kings Island is now owned by Cedar Fair. The quality of all the CF parks...big and small, have always been top notch during my attendance. I'll give the eco crew kudos, the park is spotless. It was clean before Cedar Fair, but I have noticed even more difference this year. Most of the employees I have encountered this year have been nothing but friendly and professional. However....

Having been in supervisory positions within my own industry, its not too difficult to tell which employees are unhappy or don't care about their job. Why? because it comes out in the work they do. I've had an experience or two with the type this year at the park, and those are the employees that give any business a bad name. As said before, the customer doesn't really take into concern the feelings of an associate, and they really don't have to either. The hard working mothers and fathers, as well as many other people, shell out hundreds for tickets, expensive food and drink, a five dollar bucket of rings to throw for the privilege of carrying a 6 foot stuffed animal around in the 90 degree heat, and gifts to remember their day by...if they had a good time. This is their day off and they have worked hard to spend this money (which many teenagers really don't know the value of....some of which probably work at KI). They graced Kings Island with their presence and their wallet, and it's your job to give them the best day possible. You do that by putting your cell phone down, being nice and entertaining and providing the best service. Is your job tough?? absolutely... It's thankless, the hours are long, and the work isn't the greatest sometimes, but it's your job nonetheless.

Some of you get paid minimum wage, but would you rather get paid that elsewhere? If you would, than quit....please quit, because it's the employees who act like they don't want to be there and treat people as such who ruin the experience for the hard working customer. Job perks are nice, but this isn't the executive board. Don't expect things to be handed out because the previous management (who incidently was running the park into the ground financially and otherwise) gave them to you. If the new management has new rules, than follow them. You may not like them, and some of them may even be unnecessary, but be professional. At the same time, park brass should take care of their people. Some of you were probably in the trenches at one time. Managers, please remember that it's the little people in ride ops, food stalls, and gift shops among others, that make Kings Island work. Just as you provide the leadership, the park would cease to run without the hard working associates. I have no idea what the new and old rules are for employees, but if the water rule is true, than let the people drink water. It really isn't that big of a deal for me as a customer to see an associate have a drink in the hot sun. As a matter of fact, as a customer I would rather have that than them being unpleasant or sick in the heat. They work hard for that minimum wage, and a happy associate is a productive one.

I do want to thank all of those hard working associates and managers for making every one of my experiences at KI great. In 25 years I can't say I, or any of my friends or family for that matter... really ever had a bad day at the park. Some were better than others, but I'm still coming for a reason. I have every bit of faith that Kings Island will keep getting better for years to come under the current ownership. Keep up the good work