Cedar Point Feeling The Tough Summer Economy

[The Interpreter]

http://www.wkyc.com/news/local/news_articl...914&catid=3

[Guest kwindshawne]

I thought the economy was supposed to be a good thing for the local parks. I am not surprised really. When I go out to eat, most restaurants are deserted. I wanted to go this year, but its just not going to happen.

[BavarianBeatle]

A bad economy is never good for the consumer...... Or for "luxury" type businesses like amusement parks. And, without being political, there are those out there who think the answer is to raise our taxes which will further reduce the amount of money people have to spend on parks and the like. Sad.

[Guest kwindshawne]

I'm not very good at sarcasm. This is playing out just as I suspected.

[The Interpreter]

All along, Mr. Kinzel has said high gas prices would benefit the seasonal parks. Mr. Shapiro and Mr. Snyder at Six Flags have said the same thing. And I, among many others, have strongly felt that people who are worried about coming up with enough money to fill the gas tank to get to work aren't going to be spending much money on discretionary things, like parks...and, if they do, are going to save up for that ONE very special trip, which usually ain't to the relatively local theme park.

[Guest kwindshawne]

All along, Mr. Kinzel has said high gas prices would benefit the seasonal parks. Mr. Shapiro and Mr. Snyder at Six Flags have said the same thing. And I, among many others, have strongly felt that people who are worried about coming up with enough money to fill the gas tank to get to work aren't going to be spending much money on discretionary things, like parks...and, if they do, are going to save up for that ONE very special trip, which usually ain't to the relatively local theme park.

What you said!! I thought I read that right. Regardless of what was said on another thread, I think attendance at KI is down as well. I don't think we've bottomed out yet either.

[Delirium_Guy]

All along, Mr. Kinzel has said high gas prices would benefit the seasonal parks. Mr. Shapiro and Mr. Snyder at Six Flags have said the same thing. And I, among many others, have strongly felt that people who are worried about coming up with enough money to fill the gas tank to get to work aren't going to be spending much money on discretionary things, like parks...and, if they do, are going to save up for that ONE very special trip, which usually ain't to the relatively local theme park.

I agree 100%. Please see the Orlando parks. Everyone of them is doing well this year. SeaWorld, Discovery Cove & Aquatica are all 3 doing phenominal.....Aquatica hits capacity daily by 10:30-11:00am. Discovery Cove's Dolphin Tow is booked solid through the end of the year......thats the $300 package BTW. People are saving for one very special trip in the summer. With KI and CP easily charging more than Orlando parks for just about everything outside admission, I'd sure as hell skip over them.....and get a higher quality experience!

I was glancing at CP's website..... bring a friend for $9.95 with a platinum pass? They may be running ticket promotions NOW to lure people in, however they are sticking it to them once they walk through the gate. I saw a picture that someone posted of Dorney Park.....$4.50 for a bottle of water?!? Please tell me the prices haven't become that extreme at KI this year? The same bottle of water is $2.50 at Disney or SeaWorld. Does anyone else not see this as a problem?

- Todd

[WooferBearATL]

And I think that a few of us called that one all along.

The parks like Disney, Universal, etc would be doing well.

Local parks, not so much.

[The Interpreter]

And when those local parks dramatically raise the in park pricing to make up for in pricing what they aren't getting in volume, they shoot themselves in the foot....not so much now, but in the future....

[WooferBearATL]

And when those local parks dramatically raise the in park pricing to make up for in pricing what they aren't getting in volume, they shoot themselves in the foot....not so much now, but in the future....

It's right along the lines of raising taxes during a struggling economy.

It's such a basic concept. People on a message board should not have to point such things out to a major business.

[The Interpreter]

Which brings us to a major conundrum...those outside the business often have enough distance and perspective to be able to be coldly objective about the situation but often do not have enough information to make valid judgments. Those inside are often so invested in the project that they are not objective. Hired guns from outside, aka consultants, often do not know what they are talking about and do not have accountability for their advice. I often think the Cedar Fair management was so successful for so long doing what it has always done that it now thinks it can run an organization wildly different than the one it had in the past (in size, geographic areas and culture) in the same ways it always has (in wildly different economic and cultural times) and still get incredibly good results.

[WooferBearATL]

Which brings us to a major conundrum...those outside the business often have enough distance and perspective to be able to be coldly objective about the situation but often do not have enough information to make valid judgments. Those inside are often so invested in the project that they are not objective. Hired guns from outside, aka consultants, often do not know what they are talking about and do not have accountability for their advice. I often think the Cedar Fair management was so successful for so long doing what it has always done that it now thinks it can run an organization wildly different than the one it had in the past (in size, geographic areas and culture) in the same ways it always has (in wildly different economic and cultural times) and still get incredibly good results.

Maybe if CF looked for advice outside of the Sandusky area.

They should be hiring the absolute best to guide and advise them.

And somehow, I don't think that all the best are Sandusky residents.

[cassie_KY]

I actually just got back from Cedar Point. We went with a large group of friends to help cut costs. Aside from Maverick, the majority of rides had very short waits. On Sunday, I was surprised that, again, aside from Maverick most rides were WALK ON. TTD had a half hour wait (I was guessing closer to 45, but still under an hour) and this was the early afternoon with the storms still several hours away.

For those going, unless you ask for a small water, they are tacking on a charge for water of 50 cents if you get a medium for example. Easy answer, ask for two smalls. And yes, the food was quite high (we keep food limited to a lunch item and one treat with the rest coming from outside the park).

Bottom line, good for me going to the park when the crowds are down, but not good for CP (or any theme park) because to make up for higher gas and the like, I have my money spent on something else.

[Coasterkidman]

Well I went to CP on Tuesday, and it seemed plenty corwded to me. Maverick had a 1.7ish hour wait, and Millennium Force had a 1.3 hour wait, TTD had a 1.5 hour wait, and Blue Streak had a 15 minute wait.

Now, if Cedar Point, the Roller Coaster Capital of the World, is having trouble getting people through the gates this year, mainly becuase of Gas prices, imagine how they will do next year, or the Year After. Just something to ponder. . .

[cassie_KY]

^Gas prices aren't the only thing more expensive. But, when it goes up, all things go up. However, that has it's own thread, so I don't want to go too-far off topic here. (I love my Prius!)

We were talking, there is ALOT to do up there. It really is a destination type of place. We kept making the comment how it felt like the beach with the water, the birds, and the sand. I was reading earlier how do you draw folks in? I'm all for make the food (good tasting) reasonable for a theme/amusement park and quit driving the knife in every time a person opens their wallet. I want to go to the park. I have a good time, I will spend some money there and tell other people it's a nice place to go AND, I want to go back. Kind of a simple request, but I'm just one person.

[flightoffear1996]

I have a had a pretty good year this year visiting Cedar Point and Kings Island many times. I have been watching the CP camera the parking lot isn't what it used it be.

[Coasterkidman]

It's still crowded enough to make a 1.2 day trip not enough. (Grrr )

[The Interpreter]

In recent years, Cedar Point has apparently fallen from a 3.6 million per year attendance park to just over 3 million. The company apparently thinks it can make up for the reduced admissions and number of people by getting more money from each one (higher 'per caps'). Something clearly isn't working with this model any more.

[Zorba]

My wife and I have gone to KI 8 times this year and CP twice. So far we have spent a total ~15 bucks on food. It costs so much I just leave the park when I get hungry. It is pretty bad when someone is willing to walk half a mile to their car and leave just to get food. If they just charged a small premium on their food I would eat there all the time and probably two meals a day at CP.

I am real interested to see if their 'per caps' actually have gone up since they hiked their food prices.

[The Interpreter]

You and a lot of other people. In conference calls in past years, CF released per cap and EBITDA information. The last couple of calls they have not, calling the latter "not meaningful." I'd assume if the information had been favorable, it would have been released.

[WooferBearATL]

You and a lot of other people. In conference calls in past years, CF released per cap and EBITDA information. The last couple of calls they have not, calling the latter "not meaningful." I'd assume if the information had been favorable, it would have been released.

Are you saying that if they had been favorable that the release would have been meaningful?