2012

[Pillsberry123]

I've ridden Firehawk three times. I don't even bother going into X-base at this point. I tend to ride Flight of Fear a lot early in the season but as the season moves on it looses its appeal. Firehawk lost its appeal much quicker than that... A few flats and a restroom in X-base would make the area much more relevant.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Also a drink stand or something like that other than a cart stand...

[The Interpreter]

Cedar Fair will put a restroom back there eventually. They built one behind Steel Force at Dorney. For the first season or so, that area was way too far from any such facility.

My questions there are two: 1. What provision will be made for the drying of hands, and 2. Will the restrooms have hot water? Taft/KECO/Lindner/Paramount's did...Cedar Fair's typically do not.

[Cormaster]

Seems most people agree with me on Firehawk.

It is a gimmick coaster. And the first time I rode it I thought it was one of the best coaster's I had ever ridden. But the more I Rode it, the less impressed I was with it. It moves slow, it's kinda rough, and a little uncomfortable, and the worst part is the wait is long even if the line's short. I really don't know whats up with the way the load and unload the trains... I don't quite understand the point of having a "dual loading station" if your going to load both trains at the same time, and then wait till both are in the station to re-load. Also the ride seems to have some reliability issues too, as every trip I've taken to KI its always down at some point. I think the ride's worth it if you can get on in under a half hour, but I won't wait an hour to ride it anymore. If the ride has even a decent wait for it I won't wait.

And if they tear down Son of Beast, I'd rather not have a wooden coaster. I think personally Kings Island needs more modern steal coasters. They already have 2 great woodies (one thats considered the best wooden coaster in the nation by many enthusiasts), do they really need another one? I think the park is lacking in modern steal coasters, and they could use some more. I'd rather have a B&M invert, Dive or floor-less. Maybe an awesome Intamin Launch coaster.

[Pillsberry123]

Seems most people agree with me on Firehawk.

It is a gimmick coaster. And the first time I rode it I thought it was one of the best coaster's I had ever ridden. But the more I Rode it, the less impressed I was with it. It moves slow, it's kinda rough, and a little uncomfortable, and the worst part is the wait is long even if the line's short. I really don't know whats up with the way the load and unload the trains... I don't quite understand the point of having a "dual loading station" if your going to load both trains at the same time, and then wait till both are in the station to re-load. Also the ride seems to have some reliability issues too, as every trip I've taken to KI its always down at some point. I think the ride's worth it if you can get on in under a half hour, but I won't wait an hour to ride it anymore. If the ride has even a decent wait for it I won't wait.

And if they tear down Son of Beast, I'd rather not have a wooden coaster. I think personally Kings Island needs more modern steal coasters. They already have 2 great woodies (one thats considered the best wooden coaster in the nation by many enthusiasts), do they really need another one? I think the park is lacking in modern steal coasters, and they could use some more. I'd rather have a B&M invert, Dive or floor-less. Maybe an awesome Intamin Launch coaster.

I agree with you once again. I don't know why some people think that Kings Island needs a GCI woodie. The Beast fills in the gap for any signature wooden coaster needed at KI, and a new one would seem useless in the public eye. Obviously Son of Beast was an exception because it had a loop and it was 200 feet tall, but a moderate sized GCI wouldn't be worth it. More modern steel is what we need. Diamondback is about the only steel at KI that doesn't have have reliability issues or roughness to deal with. You could argue against me with Flight Deck and Flight of Fear, but that's it...

And in my opinion, unless we get some family friendly flats or some flats in X-base, there's no point in adding flats either. We have two world class flat rides along with another modern flat hidden in a tan building. Until one of those gets taken down I don't see the point of a Screaming Swing or anything similar.

[bkroz]

I agree with you once again. I don't know why some people think that Kings Island needs a GCI woodie. The Beast fills in the gap for any signature wooden coaster needed at KI, and a new one would seem useless in the public eye. Obviously Son of Beast was an exception because it had a loop and it was 200 feet tall, but a moderate sized GCI wouldn't be worth it. More modern steel is what we need. Diamondback is about the only steel at KI that doesn't have have reliability issues or roughness to deal with. You could argue against me with Flight Deck and Flight of Fear, but that's it...

With a thought process like that, many parks would never get new roller coasters. 'Why give a GCI woodie to Cedar Point? They have a tall, intimidating woodie, and an old-timey, airtime woodie. All the bases are covered, and they don't need anymore!' Not the case. Because Kings Island has Diamondback, should we stray from any further sitting, steel, coasters? Must everything now be a "gimmick" or a family ride so that Diamondback can remain our signature steel ride?

I would hate to see the day when Kings Island in particular decides they do not need any more wooden coasters because they have The Beast.

GYK, who loves The Beast for what it is, but will never understand those who find it infallible, or worse, the end-all-be-all of wooden roller coasters. Wooden roller coasters can be better than The Beast, believe it or not. And there will come a day when The Beast is not the signature ride, or even the signature wooden roller coaster, of Kings Island theme park. And, given time, there will probably be a generation of Kings Islanders listen to their parents fondly recall a mysterious ride that used to be called "The Beast."

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Not even that but give it a few years and I am sure a wooden Coaster will take the Longest Wooden Roller Coaster in the world Title.

[Cormaster]

I'm not sure if anyone will take that title away from The Beast. Not that its impossible, its that no one seems to have an interest in building a wooden coaster that long.

Anyway I gotta say it, though I was trying not to. Its like this: If you've rode one Woodie, you've rode them all. You can only do so much with wood. I kinda think wooden coasters are over-rated. That being said I love The Beast, and i loved the SOB...why? Because they are unique wooden coasters that break the rules...granted Son of Beast broke too many rules which is why it is currently SBNO. Its not that I don't like The Racer, because I do and its a staple to ride it every time. But you got your airtime woodie, and you got your long 4 1/2 minute ride in the woods with tunnels woodie... what else can a wooden coaster offer us? IF The Racer's Airtime thrills aren't enough, go ride Diamondback!

To each his own, I understand, but for me I never quite got the hype with woodies and why people love them so much. I like steel, I like inversions, I like crazy gimmicks like hanging chairs, and floorless trains. I like tall lift hills, launches, and high speed. Again I don't hate wooden coasters, but still they are all one in the same. hill, airtime, hill, airtime, hill airtime....brake run. And on that note its why I'd much rather have a new modern steel coaster than a GCI woodie or the like.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

I think...people like wooden coasters 'cause they are so shakey and rough that your mind associates it with being out of control, more of which you don't really feel on a smooth ride like DB. I love wooden COasters. I love SOB, The Beast, The Racer, Mean Streak, Blue Streak. I think they are a staple at any park. Now what is new that they could offer? A better way to go upside down, I fear, however, that because of SOB being a real S.O.B, no park in their right mind would push that limmit again, although I still say GIVE ME A CORK-SCREW!

[bkroz]

Now what is new that they could offer? A better way to go upside down, I fear, however, that because of SOB being a real S.O.B, no park in their right mind would push that limmit again...

Oh, really? If Paramount Parks had waited a few years, then they would've found themselves looking at plans for Son of Beast and considering Intamin's pre-fabricated wooden track, or GCI's super-smooth, super-agile wooden coasters. And I would bet my left arm that Intamin would've jumped at the chance to use it's pre-fabricated wooden roller coaster to create the world's first modern looping woodie. And I would bet my right arm that that ride would've been a success. And both GCI and Intamin could doubtlessly create an incredible looping wooden coaster for the right price.

The only thing is that I'm sure both companies are hesistant to do so because of Son of Beast. But will it happen? You better believe it! GCI could make a moderately-sized, out-of-control wooden coaster (a la Prowler) that just so happens to feature a loop. And forget not that Intamin's pre-fabricated wood coasters currently occupy the #2, #3, and #4 spots for the world's tallest, fastest wooden roller coasters, dwarfed only by Son of Beast. Something tells me they would jump at the chance to not only beat Son of Beast's height, but to capture it's loop record. And they could do it. Anyone who's ridden El Toro or Colossus will tell you that much.

But the era of the looping wooden roller coaster is not over. Some would say it has not really begun yet. But it is certainly not over.

[Pillsberry123]

I agree with you once again. I don't know why some people think that Kings Island needs a GCI woodie. The Beast fills in the gap for any signature wooden coaster needed at KI, and a new one would seem useless in the public eye. Obviously Son of Beast was an exception because it had a loop and it was 200 feet tall, but a moderate sized GCI wouldn't be worth it. More modern steel is what we need. Diamondback is about the only steel at KI that doesn't have have reliability issues or roughness to deal with. You could argue against me with Flight Deck and Flight of Fear, but that's it...

With a thought process like that, many parks would never get new roller coasters. 'Why give a GCI woodie to Cedar Point? They have a tall, intimidating woodie, and an old-timey, airtime woodie. All the bases are covered, and they don't need anymore!' Not the case. Because Kings Island has Diamondback, should we stray from any further sitting, steel, coasters? Must everything now be a "gimmick" or a family ride so that Diamondback can remain our signature steel ride?

I would hate to see the day when Kings Island in particular decides they do not need any more wooden coasters because they have The Beast.

GYK, who loves The Beast for what it is, but will never understand those who find it infallible, or worse, the end-all-be-all of wooden roller coasters. Wooden roller coasters can be better than The Beast, believe it or not. And there will come a day when The Beast is not the signature ride, or even the signature wooden roller coaster, of Kings Island theme park. And, given time, there will probably be a generation of Kings Islanders listen to their parents fondly recall a mysterious ride that used to be called "The Beast."

Of course from an enthusiast's point of view we would like as many different coasters as possible, but from a marketable standpoint a new woodie wouldn't make sense. Diamondback was a success because Kings Island has nothing else like it. It's marketed as the biggest ride that Kings Island has ever had... I don't know about you, but I'm going to say that Diamondback has sparked a lot of attention.

If they build a new woodie, the question won't be "Hey, how is it?" It's going to be "Is it better than The Beast?"

SOB was different because it was 200 feet tall and had a loop. Completely different scenario there.

To answer your question, Diamondback doesn't mean that Kings Island shouldn't get anymore steel coasters. It means that we shouldn't get anymore hypers. It doesn't make sense. Why build a signature steel coaster when you're just going to outdo it several years later, especially when you're trying to cater to locals? Again, the question wouldn't be "How is the new ride?" The question would be, "Is the new ride better than Diamondback?"

[Pillsberry123]

Double Post

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Well what about CP, didn't they build Magnum XL then Miille? Essentially(SP?) outdoing Magnum?

[The Interpreter]

Several misconceptions here:

* Parks don't care what any particular person wants (unless that person owns or controls the chain or park). They look at demographics being targeted and figure out what is needed to satisfy those demographics. Once you know what demographics are being targeted and a bit about the park/chain's philosophy, you can more easily predict future additions...but also take into account macro factors like the economy, company debt levels, etc.

* New woodies don't make sense? Tell that to Worlds of Fun. Tell that to Six Flags St Louis. Tell that to Kemah Boardwalk. Most especially tell that to Holiday World. Tell me what their signature steel coaster additions have been!

* Longer woodie than Beast? Many American enthusiasts tend to forget about China. And how China is putting in rides to target its market. There is more to the world than North America.

* Wooden coasters are boring and only go up and down hills? There is more to wooden coasters than can be found at Cedar Point and Kings Island. Far, far more. Even if the local to this site's riders' world has expanded to as far as Holiday World, there is a huge variety of wooden coaster experiences, many of them glass smooth, waiting to be savored...

Some here who think wooden coasters are boring probably haven't even ridden Tornado at Stricker's Grove, for crying out loud!

There is more in life than one's own experiences...and not everyone thinks the same as one does. Many make the mistake of thinking what they like is what everyone likes. I have often thought this is one of Dick Kinzel's biggest misconceptions...that along with a very unfortunate tendency to refuse to hear or tolerate dissent of any kind...

[Rustbucket]

I cannot believe someone said that wooden coasters are boring. I look forward to riding wooden coasters more so than riding a B&M hyper or Inverts. Even though I consider many of the B&M hypers to be great coasters, wooden coasters are quite unique. They also provide very different rides from day to day or hour to hour. Some of my favorite wooden coasters such as Boulder Dash, Hades, and Voyage provide extreme out of control rides with huge air time. El Toro, Renegade, and T-Express provides very smooth yet intensity greater than any B&M hypers I rode so far. My most recent trip to SFStL presented me with 3 very unique wooden coaster experiences: Evel Knievel, Boss, and Screamin' Eagle.

[Pillsberry123]

Well what about CP, didn't they build Magnum XL then Miille? Essentially(SP?) outdoing Magnum?

Have you seen the line for Magnum lately?

The reason Millennium was built was to get the record for the tallest and fastest ride. If it wasn't to get that record, I doubt it would have been built.

New woodies don't make sense? Tell that to Worlds of Fun. Tell that to Six Flags St Louis. Tell that to Kemah Boardwalk. Most especially tell that to Holiday World. Tell me what their signature steel coaster additions have been!

Holiday World's woodies aren't savored by most people like enthusiast do. It's obvious. From lunch until the park closes everyone is at Splashin Safari. The Voyage gave the park national attention, and until that diminishes why build another coaster? (whether or not you consider Wildabeast a coaster is a different topic)

Their past two additions have been major water rides. Their attendance is up, and it's been going up without the addition of any new wooden coasters. It's up because the place is a better value, and because they are noted for having one the best waterparks around.

[bkroz]

I agree with you once again. I don't know why some people think that Kings Island needs a GCI woodie. The Beast fills in the gap for any signature wooden coaster needed at KI...

... I would hate to see the day when Kings Island in particular decides they do not need any more wooden coasters because they have The Beast. ...

Of course from an enthusiast's point of view we would like as many different coasters as possible, but from a marketable standpoint a new woodie wouldn't make sense. Diamondback was a success because Kings Island has nothing else like it. It's marketed as the biggest ride that Kings Island has ever had... I don't know about you, but I'm going to say that Diamondback has sparked a lot of attention.

If they build a new woodie, the question won't be "Hey, how is it?" It's going to be "Is it better than The Beast?"

SOB was different because it was 200 feet tall and had a loop. Completely different scenario there.

To answer your question, Diamondback doesn't mean that Kings Island shouldn't get anymore steel coasters. It means that we shouldn't get anymore hypers. It doesn't make sense. Why build a signature steel coaster when you're just going to outdo it several years later, especially when you're trying to cater to locals? Again, the question wouldn't be "How is the new ride?" The question would be, "Is the new ride better than Diamondback?"

The thing is, your argument is that Diamondback blacks out our capacity to get new steel 200-foot-tall hyper coasters. Sure. Makes sense. We've got one, why get another of the same style.

But The Beast blacks out our capacity for any further wooden coasters whatsoever [unless it's a "completely different scenario" because it's 70 feet taller like Son of Beast]?

It makes sense that it should make the park re-think getting any extreme, isolated, terrain coasters located in the woods with straightaways and two lift hills and a finale helix. But why does the presence of The Beast eliminate any further capacity for any wooden roller coaster of any style? If Kings Island had gotten Prowler in 2010, it would be a runaway hit, even with its distinct similarities to The Beast.

Claiming that The Beast forever fits the bill of any desired wooden coaster in the park is akin to saying we didn't need any other steel coasters after Adventure Express. There are many, many, many variations of wooden coasters just as there are many variations of steel coasters, and no single ride can ever represent all of those variations succinctly.

And based on how many of us feel about the recent GCI woodies like Prowler, the answer to "Is it better than The Beast" would most certainly be "Yes," anyway... Your view is very narrow, to say the least.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Sigh. I think we can never have to many wood costers! I would like something like El Toro, or....maybe The Voyage...

[Cormaster]

I just want to know what can a woodie do that a steel can't? Jar the heck out of you? Yeah I know some our "smooth as glass" but if they are that smooth than what's the point? I thought the main thing that makes a woodie different from a steel hypercoaster such as DB is that a wooden coaster jars you... but than again people complain about Son of Beast beating you up.

To be quite honest I want another woodie at Kings Island like I want a hole in my head. For years I've gawked at Dive machines, hypers, floor-less coasters, and inverts, and none of the above did we get until 2009. Now that we have Diamondback, it almost feels alone, surrounded by old coasters and rinky dinks. I think the park's last major steel coaster is the aging arrow mega-looper sitting across from it. The whole paramount era was littered with little rinky dink steel coasters, and instead of a B&M invert, we got a mini vekoma hang and bang. I can't tell you how mad I was when KI got Face Off. I had wanted an Invert for years, and I saw pictures of it and I thought "Finally, we have one. Then I get there and see that rinky dink thing and feel very ripped off!

Quite frankly I've never rode a B&M version of The Vortex, a.k.a. "sitting coasters" such as Led Zepplin/Time Machine, or Kumba. I've never ridden a floor-less. I've never ridden a Dive machine. All these coasters I've had to watch video and look at pictures of, while KI installs a Premier rides family coaster. Seriously we need more steel! Someone mentioned a twisted Impulse... I'd like that honestly. After riding Wicked Twister I thought it was a much better experience than Invertigo, and I didn't get sick on it. I swear Invertigo always makes me sick. I'm find going through, but when I go back through, and as soon as I hit that loop, I'm feeling a bit sick to my stomach.

[Pillsberry123]

But why does the presence of The Beast eliminate any further capacity for any wooden roller coaster of any style?

You're forgetting that we have The Racer and Woodstock Express. Woodstock Express is the woodie for kids, The Racer for families, and The Beast for adults. We've got the wood basis covered. My point isn't that we should never get another woodie, it's that there's much more that we need before we should consider getting another one. I love woodies as much as the next guy, but this isn't roller coaster tycoon where you can just take out a massive loan and build 40 coasters. Rides are put there for a reason, and if the money isn't made back then it's wasted money and a bad investment.

Actually, Kings Island needs to be considered for more than coasters. I picture our next coaster being a modern, looping, steel coaster. I don't know when that will come, but I don't think it will happen in 2012. I picture a modern flat, X-base expansion, and Boomerang Bay update before I picture another coaster at KI.

[XGatorHead 8904]

They already have 2 great woodies (one thats considered the best wooden coaster in the nation by many enthusiasts), do they really need another one?

I assume you're speaking of Beast and Racer. IMO, the park has 3 great woodies. Don't underestimate Scooby Doo Beastie Fairly OddCoaster Woodstock Express just because it's a kiddie coaster. That thing packs some good little pops of airtime.

And, given time, there will probably be a generation of Kings Islanders listen to their parents fondly recall a mysterious ride that used to be called "The Beast."

I was thinking about something the other day. I've grown up knowing the story of "The Beast" lurking in the woods. But my daughter, with her penchant for Disney princesses, will probably think that coaster is named after a prince whose entire castle and everyone in it has fallen under an enchantress's spell. I'll make sure she knows the correct backstory when the time comes (after she's ridden it a few times... don't want to scare her from riding it right away just because of a made up backstory).

Its like this: If you've rode one Woodie, you've rode them all.

Wow. I could not disagree more with that statement. Racer does not provide the same experience of rushing through the woods as Beast. Beast does not provide the airtime that Voyage does. Thunderhead does not provide the amount of pain that Mean Streak does.

Just because a ride is made of the same basic material does not mean they're the same. It's like saying all Scramblers are the same. They're not, as I learned last year after riding Coney's.

Holiday World's woodies aren't savored by most people like enthusiast do. It's obvious. From lunch until the park closes everyone is at Splashin Safari. The Voyage gave the park national attention, and until that diminishes why build another coaster? (whether or not you consider Wildabeast a coaster is a different topic)

Their past two additions have been major water rides. Their attendance is up, and it's been going up without the addition of any new wooden coasters. It's up because the place is a better value, and because they are noted for having one the best waterparks around.

If everyone's in Splashin Safari and not in line for Voyage, then why have I waited in line for it for 45 minutes to an hour? And I'm sure that SFKK's closure has had some effect on HW's attendance being up.

I think the park's last major steel coaster is the aging arrow mega-looper sitting across from it. The whole paramount era was littered with little rinky dink steel coasters, and instead of a B&M invert, we got a mini vekoma hang and bang.

What? FoF is a rinky dink coaster? Never mind that it goes 54 mph, has 4 inversions and, along with its counterpart in Virginia, was the first coaster to use LIM's. I wouldn't exactly call Firehawk a rinky dink either. Now before anyone says "it's not new, it was relocated from Geauga Lake", I would bet money that the average parkgoer doesn't know or doesn't care. I know I don't care. It was new to KI, and new to a lot of park guests. And sure, some here may think it's a gimmick coaster (I don't) but definitely not "rinky dink". And yes I know you said the Paramount era was littered with rinky dink steel coasters, and Firehawk was moved by CF, but you also said the last major steel was Vortex. Give me a break...

[LongliveKingsCobra]

^Bravo. I agree with you 100% Even more on the riding a wooden caoster is different from each time, idea!

[Cormaster]

Well what can you do with Wood to make it drastically different? Wood can't be bent like steel can. Steel is more versatile. The Beast is unique, but other than that, hill airtime, hill, airtime, hill, airtime BRAKE RUN! Yeah at one point in time wood was all they had. Now that they can make coasters out of steel why even bother making a wood coaster? Heck you could design a steel coaster with the same layout as a wood coaster and make it taller, faster, and smoother... oh wait they did that already see Diamondback. And yes I do consider Firehawk a rinky dink coaster. It's a tiny little flying coaster hidden by Racer, which isn't that big but looks GIGANTIC compared to Firehawk! And yes as much as I like Flight of Fear, its rinky dink. And it takes too long to get on that thing usually for the short ride it has to offer in the end. The ride's low capacity and that stupid video sucks "OMG ALIENS NOOO ITS 1996 AGAIN! AHHH" I'd rather take a bullet in the head than have to suffer through that video one more time.

So anyway since Vortex:

Adventure Express = rinky dink

Top Gun = Rinky dink

Flight of Fear = Rinky Dink

Invertigo = rinky dink

Son of Beast = BINGO!

Itailian Job Stunt Track = Rinky Dink

Firehawk = rinky dink

Diamondback = BINGO!

So yeah since Vortex only 2 major coaster's were built and one of those 2 is SBNO. IF we're going to get another woodie, they might as well just save money and renovate SOB. otherwise I want more major steel coasters!

[Purplehaze]

So basically you are just hate'n that ride and woodies on your own presumptions. Thats cool we all have are likes and dislikes. Why does the park have to build another new coaster? A year after that is built I am sure you will complain cormaster they need a new one. This is a industry which takes millions to run not to mention to get a new attraction costs millions also. Why does everything have to be big? KI is not CP nor will it ever be. CP is the flagship and pretty sure it always will be.

[Cormaster]

I don't really hate any of the coasters to be honest. They don't have to be big to be awesome. But the point is KI has not built enough big ones.

[Dbfan]

Heck you could design a steel coaster with the same layout as a wood coaster and make it taller, faster, and smoother... oh wait they did that already see Diamondback

Can you give me an example of a wooden coaster that does the same things as Diamondback?

Adventure Express = rinky dink

Top Gun = Rinky dink

Flight of Fear = Rinky Dink

Invertigo = rinky dink

Son of Beast = BINGO!

Itailian Job Stunt Track = Rinky Dink

Firehawk = rinky dink

Diamondback = BINGO!

Flight of Fear is short? It's one of the best coasters in the park, and you consider it a minor coaster? And you can't even hear the video in the line for that long. Seems to me you only crave the high and fast and could care less of smaller more unique rides.

[Purplehaze]

Rinky dink is in the eye of the beholder.

[Cormaster]

Man I just want more major steel coaster's. It ridiculous that KI waited till 2009 to get its first B&M. And its even more ridiculous that if I want a good B&M invert I have to drive to Sandusky or Chicago. And its even more ridiculous that their isn't a Floor-less or dive machine even near me... I have to hop on a flight to even get near one!

[The Interpreter]

If it is such a major life priority for you, perhaps you should move closer to Cedar Point or Magic Mountain.

Terp, who knows many people who have moved to live nearer their favorite parks (and who is much happier living at least 10 hours from his favorite park...makes visits there far more special)

[Purplehaze]

It is easy for us to wish for things but not so easy for the park. And KI has broken several records when it comes to coasters. So what if they are not running now. Just like a phone or computer. Buy one today 6 months it is outdated .