yournamehere Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I highly doubt Cedar Fair would just go to a new company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Why? They could have ended their contracts with other company's and decided to try something new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yournamehere Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 Because they don’t know how reliable they would be. They could cost them tons of money in problems. I think you can count on premier or Intamin. Hopefully Intamin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 How long had Intamin been around when it built TTD? Look at its problems. Even if it was an Intamin, it is a completely new track design never before seen. So going by your logic it's going to cost to repair it too. Just because it's new doesn't mean its going to have maintenance issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SonofBeast07 Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 I'm working on a model coaster with the same track type made out of aluminum and brass tubes. I'll start a thread here soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yournamehere Posted June 12, 2009 Share Posted June 12, 2009 How long had Intamin been around when it built TTD? Look at its problems. Even if it was an Intamin, it is a completely new track design never before seen. So going by your logic it's going to cost to repair it too. Just because it's new doesn't mean its going to have maintenance issues. The had been around for a while I think their celebrating 40 years this year and yes TTD cost money but the fact that they had been around for a while probably influenced Cedar Fair to build it. The new track design saves money with supports spread out further Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 How long had Intamin been around when it built TTD? Look at its problems. Even if it was an Intamin, it is a completely new track design never before seen. So going by your logic it's going to cost to repair it too. Just because it's new doesn't mean its going to have maintenance issues. The had been around for a while I think their celebrating 40 years this year and yes TTD cost money but the fact that they had been around for a while probably influenced Cedar Fair to build it. The new track design saves money with supports spread out further It would only say money for supports it it was going to be taller. A 100 foot tall coaster with the double spine and less supports would save very little, if any money at all. A 200 foot coaster with the double spine and less supports would save a lot more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UncleHenry Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You guys know the coaster that showed up at KD is NOT staying at KD... right? It got shipped to the wrong park. Don't believe me? They packed up the supports again, and started taking them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianapolisman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Steel isn't at an ALL time low, but is relaitvly cheaper than years past. Reasearch and Development is not cheap by far. These coaster designers are just thinking outside the box. Mabye somewhere down the line it may pay off. This coaster will just be innovation at work. And if anyone, it will save CF a FEW nickels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Do you guys think this will be better than Diamondback? also this is ot but here in indy i probably see a Kings Island tv commercial and here a radio commercial at least 5 times a day here in indy! they are advertising it big time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You guys know the coaster that showed up at KD is NOT staying at KD... right? It got shipped to the wrong park. Don't believe me? They packed up the supports again, and started taking them away. Show me proof that the few supports that were left have been packed up. Or are you talking about the track? If so, I want proof, then I'll believe you. Do you guys think this will be better than Diamondback? also this is ot but here in indy i probably see a Kings Island tv commercial and here a radio commercial at least 5 times a day here in indy! they are advertising it big time! I could very well be better than Diamondback. I could very well be worse than Diamondback. It also depends on what someone likes in a coaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Steel isn't at an ALL time low, but is relaitvly cheaper than years past. Reasearch and Development is not cheap by far. These coaster designers are just thinking outside the box. Mabye somewhere down the line it may pay off. This coaster will just be innovation at work. And if anyone, it will save CF a FEW nickels. Steel is still a lot more expensive than 10 years ago, although it is down quite a bit from last summers completely inflated prices. R&D on the double spline probably wasn't that high, it seems like a pretty obvious evolution if the need presents itself. For example, say they had 3 engineers working on it for a full year with a full burden rate of $55/hour that is still only $343K. That would be made up for pretty quickly with the reduction in material and labor costs on the supports. Of course I don't work at the company so I don't know for sure how much they spent on R&D, but compared to projects I am familiar with I doubt they spent millions on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You guys know the coaster that showed up at KD is NOT staying at KD... right? It got shipped to the wrong park. Don't believe me? They packed up the supports again, and started taking them away. Which explains why they had cranes ready to pick them up and take them off the trucks, why they sat there for several days before being moved, and the big cleared area out in the back of the park. Please, this is getting very old, very fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BavarianBeatle Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 My guess is that they moved those supports closer to the construction site. Especially since track is now being delivered and (to state the obvious) they have to assemble the supports before they can attach the track pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I believe the term for that is "staging." Someone mentioned it in this thread earlier. But then, that person who mentioned it first probably needs to learn something about roller coasters before he posts much. http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=305486 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnrealNightmare Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 http://www.yasisland.ae/FerrariWorld_en_gb.html Here is a video that at the very end shows the F1 coaster. In the video it looks nothing like the pictures. It looks more like an Intamin in the video. So it's really up in the air until an announcement is made. It is also mentioned here in this topic. ---------> http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...&hl=ferrari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 But how far up in the air, that is the question some ask... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamondback FOF Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Hopefully very high up in the air . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 I believe the term for that is "staging." Someone mentioned it in this thread earlier. But then, that person who mentioned it first probably needs to learn something about roller coasters before he posts much. http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?...st&p=305486 Oh thank you Terpy for sharing your great wisdom with us I don't know why we all don't read/interpret what you say better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianapolisman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Steel isn't at an ALL time low, but is relaitvly cheaper than years past. Reasearch and Development is not cheap by far. These coaster designers are just thinking outside the box. Mabye somewhere down the line it may pay off. This coaster will just be innovation at work. And if anyone, it will save CF a FEW nickels. Steel is still a lot more expensive than 10 years ago, although it is down quite a bit from last summers completely inflated prices. R&D on the double spline probably wasn't that high, it seems like a pretty obvious evolution if the need presents itself. For example, say they had 3 engineers working on it for a full year with a full burden rate of $55/hour that is still only $343K. That would be made up for pretty quickly with the reduction in material and labor costs on the supports. Of course I don't work at the company so I don't know for sure how much they spent on R&D, but compared to projects I am familiar with I doubt they spent millions on it. Would they really save Millions by spreading out supports? I was just stating that it seems more like something they might do for space or special design, but to save cost on steel? And as stated I'm not highly educated on bulding coasters. Still not gonna keep me from posting a couple cents though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Don't forget fewer supports would also mean less excavating, less concrete, less labor and on and on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Don't forget fewer supports would also mean less excavating, less concrete, less labor and on and on... This I doubt they would save millions on one coaster, but I am certain they would save enough to justify the R&D expense on one large coaster. There is a ton of steel, labor, concrete, etc in 200+ foot supports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianapolisman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Which is what I was trying to get at last night. This will save on future development. Not right off The Bat though. (indianapolisman @ Jun 12 2009, 08:36 PM) Steel isn't at an ALL time low, but is relatively cheaper than years past. Research and Development is not cheap by far. These coaster designers are just thinking outside the box. Mabye somewhere down the line it may pay off. This coaster will just be innovation at work. And if anyone, it will save CF a FEW nickels. Is steel cheaper than it has been in the last few years? Yes. Is R&D cheap at 350,000+? No. Will it save $$$ down the road? Yes. Is this innovation at work? We will see. Not certain it is what everyone thinks it is. Will the savings be past down to the customer? With Intiman spending on R&D it will only mean savings for CF. Was there alcohol involved in said post. Yes But in the end I would hope the R&D $$ would go for something more than saving $$. Like smoother rides, or rides that require less maintenance. Or maybe rides that take up less of a footprint. Oh yes and the Staging thing. Staging can be found on most job sites anywhere. I've known the concept of staging since I was a young boy when my father was involved in building an amphitheater in Iowa. Way before I'd even ridden a coaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;... Terpy, who just HAD to.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianapolisman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 All the world's a stage, And all the men and women merely players;... Terpy, who just HAD to.... And Terp takes the lead in this Play. Sean, who couldn't help it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 Which is what I was trying to get at last night. This will save on future development. Not right off The Bat though. Is steel cheaper than it has been in the last few years? Yes. Is R&D cheap at 350,000+? No. Will it save $$ down the road? Yes. Is this innovation at work? We will see. Not certain it is what everyone thinks it is. Will the savings be past down to the customer? With Intiman spending on R&D it will only mean savings for CF. Was there alcohol involved in said post. Yes But in the end I would hope the R&D $ would go for something more than saving $. Like smoother rides, or rides that require less maintenance. Or maybe rides that take up less of a footprint. Steel still isn't cheap, just like gas still isn't cheap. Just because it is cheaper than an artificially over inflated price doesn't make it cheap. I seriously doubt that it actually took 3 engineers a year to come up with this, like I said it looks like a straightforward evolution of design, not a revolutionary design. But the $350K guess should be conservative. As far as engineering work goes 350K is pretty cheap. Of course they would only invest in the technology if it was going to save money down the line, but it would also save money now, I am not sure how you can say that it won't save money now. Just because steel prices or down off their peaks? Airlines are still spending millions to save fractions of a percent of fuel, even though oil is less than half of its peak price. "But in the end I would hope the R&D $ would go for something more than saving $." - A quote I often see at work "You have to remember Engineering is not a scientific process but an economic process." No (smart) company pays for R&D without expecting a reasonable return on investment. Fewer supports should equal lower maintenance, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indianapolisman Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 From the pictures it looks like more steel and work went into the track sections than past designs. I'm still sticking to the idea this design was not to save on steel cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom76257 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 (indianapolisman @ Jun 12 2009, 08:36 PM) Was there alcohol involved in said post. Yes LOL! At least you're honest, Sean. That's the same reason why I didn't post last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast1979 Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 You adults .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorba Posted June 13, 2009 Share Posted June 13, 2009 From the pictures it looks like more steel and work went into the track sections than past designs. I'm still sticking to the idea this design was not to save on steel cost. It isn't just steel costs, it is all costs. Material, fabrication, labor, site prep, etc. Just remember a 1% savings on Diamondback would've been $220K (or about 3 engineers annual salaries before benefits), with the cost of these things a little R&D to save costs is pretty easy to justify. And of course there is a trade off between expensive track and cheaper structure versus more cheaper track and more expensive structure. At my company, even though material prices are less than half what they were a year ago we are still spending millions on R&D to reduce our usage of those materials. And even though the prices are way down, almost all of these project have a payback period of less than one year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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