Two Questions About Diamondback Seating

[The Beast Rider]

As several people have already pointed out, you do NOT need to assign seats to keep the station from being too crowded. Simply assign someone to only let in a certain number of people in order to keep the station from getting too crowded, but still let people choose their own seat. That is way I saw it done on Behemoth last year and it worked great. I have also seen it work fine on Millenium Force.

That is exactly what I meant. It's not the person at the entrance keeping order I have a problem with. It is just the assigned seat idea that I despise. If they had a person at the entrance to the station to keep it from being crowded, great. They just don't need to tell people that have waited for quite some time which seat to sit in. Let them decide on their own and fill the station accordingly.

[StalkerChick]

In regards to the 'assigned' seating, as has been mentioned, it's sort of the luck of the draw, and no one is certain when it will officially stop (I believe it ended for Behemoth before the end of its first season). I would, however, say there are a few things you can do to increase your chances of being granted a seat request.

1.) Ask politely. "I want row 1" is a far cry from "Could I wait for the front row, please" I've found that asking (not demanding) and doing so politely with a smile has netted me the seat I've requested about 80-90% of the time.

2.) Don't argue and Don't switch Rows behind the Ops back. This sort of action isn't going to help you have your requests granted in the future, and while I highly doubt a guest would be kicked out of the park for going to a line they weren't assigned, if a Rid Op sees it, they're certainly not going to grant your future requests.

3.) Crowds can play a role. If the park is really crowded and Diamondback is sporting an hour plus wait... the Ride-Ops are going to be less likely to take requests in an effort to keep the queue moving quickly and to prevent lines forming at certain rows. If its a slow day (say middle of the week) and lines are 20-30 minutes, your request is probably more likely to be granted.

Also, and I almost hate pointing this out for fear it'll start a trend... but for those of you who prefer the front of the train on Diamondback to the back (and I'm among them... better view, better wind in the face, and a MAJOR burst of air on the trim hill that the back just doesn't provide) don't be afraid to request ROW 2. It offers all the freedom and awesome forces of row 1, without the popularity and long lines.

There have been a couple of occasions i've gotten to the station and seen 6-10 people waiting for Row 1... and only two people waiting in Row 2 (same as every other row). I request row 2, and because it doesn't have a line any longer than rows 3-16, I'm granted the request.

I still get a "front row" ride, and don't have the extra wait or the high chance of my request being turned down by the Ride-Op.

Honestly i think row 2 is a better ride than row 1 and i've ridden both multiple times right after the other. and also, i'm suprised KI Man hasn't commented yet, as far as front row, rows 9-13 are also amazing, and for some strange reason top row 1, but not row 2 lol i'm partial i LOVE row 2

but as far as leaving your row for the first... it is ppl like you that cause there to be empty rows, and screw up the srl and set off the whole chain of events to not being able to get the ride out at capacity. I have only been denied a choice seat 1 times, and that was on a very busy day, there they got behind on assigning rows, and they might have been sending out empty seats if they didn't get moving.

and its a lot of the same employees assigning seats.... and they do see when you skip your row for another. I've seen them go as far as to on the microphone call out someone who jumped to another row. so they do see these things, and if they see you constantly screwing up their order, of course i would deny you a choice seat too..... just sayin

[AgentSoB]

I've requested the front nicely three times now and have been denied each time. Only once was it a busy day at the park when I rode. One instance, the line was not filled and the front row only had two people in it. I wasn't happy at first, however I was assigned the back car front seat, so I quickly changed my mind.

[txdrummer]

IMHO I think I like the seat assignment because of the continuous movement of the lines, both the main line and the SRL. In the long run it is better for the park to have their lastest and greatest attraction operating at full capacity.

[violakat03]

You're more likely to be denied row 1 than any other row. If it has a long wait (usually more than 4 trains worth) they are probably going to deny it. I've only once been denied row 16 and that was because it had a longer line than the front at the time! The ride op who was assigning seats apologized and asked if I'd like row 15 instead, which I gladly accepted. I've also been granted row 16 when the pair a couple people ahead of me was denied a requested seat with the line "we can't grant requests at this time" because they snootily demanded row 1, where as I asked very nicely "Is it possible for me to get row 16? I understand if you can't." She smiled and waved me back there.

It helps when you've ridden it enough times that the ride ops start recognizing you. There are a handful of them that I don't even have to ask anymore, they just point me to the back immediately!

[Mikewhy]

IMHO I think I like the seat assignment because of the continuous movement of the lines, both the main line and the SRL. In the long run it is better for the park to have their lastest and greatest attraction operating at full capacity.

Interesting.. During Winter SOAR this year, someone from KI actually told us that Canada's Wonderland stopped assigning seats on Behemoth because they found that capacity was either the same or improved by NOT assigning seats. Then of course, they told us that they still wanted to assign seats at KI, which seemed really odd to me. Therefore I dispute the belief that seat assignment always improves capacity.

[Mikewhy]

Another negative aspect of assigning seats is the fact that if you always accept an assigned seat, you will almost NEVER have a chance at being in the front row. Since so many people request it and some of are given their request, there is almost always a wait for the front, and therefore the only way you can usually get the front row at ALL is to request it... (I am sure there are times when people are assigned to the front, but from my many times riding it, I have seen the front only go to those who asked for it...)

[rotag]

front, back, what is the issue as long as you are on

rotag, who never gets the same seat twice in a row.

[IBEW_Sparky]

Ahhh, a voice of reason!! Right on bro, as long as Im ridin Im cool. Granted, row 2 is sweet, and of course row 16 rocks... but I honestly couldnt care less where I am sitting as there truly is NO bad seat on DB.

[Tchu]

But others do care. While there isn't a bad seat on Diamdonback, there are certainly some that are much better than others (Row 2 owns all in my opinion). And I think those of us who don't care much for the seat assigning are disappointed that it can be luck of the draw where you get to sit.

If I wait 40 minutes standing in the regular queue for the right to request a seat... I think that request should be granted. I've paid my way into the park, waited my time in line... if I want to wait another 10 minutes specifically for the front seat... why shouldn't I be allowed. It doesn't make anyone's wait longer except my own (and any other requesting that specific row... but again, that's their choice).

In fact,if a ride-op is moving down the line and is going to assign me row 16, and I request to wait for row 1 or 2 and I am granted that request... I go and wait another few minutes. Meanwhile, the person behind me now gets row 16 and gets on a that train, instead of having to wait for the next.

I believe Terpy, mentioned being told where to go enough at work and in life... it's nice (and not unreasonable in my opinion) to think that we can go to an amusement park and not be ordered where to go and where to sit. I don't think its asking too much to be able to pick your seat on a rollercoaster.

[rotag]

thats what the other coasters are for, cuase a new coaster atracts too much attention to not bring chaos of unseat assignings

[skaterboy22101]

About the going to row 2 to avoid the crowds, that's a great ides. Personaly, my favorite seat is 1-4, it also barely has a wait.

[Tchu]

I'd like to pick my seat on Diamdonback as well. The first time I rode DB was Friday, April 24th. The park was empty. The line for DB was about 6-10 minutes, stretching no further back than where the queue passes under the lift. And they were assigning seats and actually, that was the only time I've ever been denied a seat request.

What was the point of that? For a 6 minute wait they felt the need to assign seats and deny requests to "keep the line moving"?

It was just mentioned above that Behemoth rather quickly abandoned the assigned seating and that the line moved just as quickly, arguably more so.

And like I said earlier...

No employee around, mass hysteria <------------------------------------------------------------->Assigned seats

They're opposite ends of the spectrum. There is middle ground. Pulse the line if you're concerned about chaos in the loading station (and I'm not sure its that big of a concern, b/c The Beast at night often has a full, chaotic station... they don't assign seats there). You can manage the traffic in the station without assigning seats.

[Diamondback FOF]

There have been a couple of occasions i've gotten to the station and seen 6-10 people waiting for Row 1... and only two people waiting in Row 2 (same as every other row). I request row 2, and because it doesn't have a line any longer than rows 3-16, I'm granted the request.

I personally don't like the middle of the train on Diamondback. I feel as there is no airtime and very little force. Now, the front and back, on the other hand, Oh Yeah!!!

As to ending the seat assignments, they might do that, but I can 99% guaranttee you that there will be a ride op standing at the entrance to the station. I say this because the inside of the station has no queue rails. Therefore, as earlier stated, there would be chaos. There would be no line, there'd be pushing, etc. So, I think there will be for the rest of this year, and years to come, that there will be a ride op assigning seats or pulsing the line. Unless, of course, there queue line is modified to add rails.

[Hoeter]

I've only ridden in row 8 and I will say that there is a ton of airtime in that row. Also got a little bit of mist from the splashdown as well.

[Mikewhy]

The front row has an extra long que area before the gate... obviously they were expecting people to want to wait for the front. Therefore a request should be granted as long as that line is not too long and you are willing to wait longer.

I very much care where I sit, and being told where to sit really does adversely affect the experience for me. At Canada's Wonderland, I waited in a 45 minute nearly completely full que line for Behemoth with no seat assigning, just a pulsing of the crowd into the station. The line was moving just as fast as Diamondback, and everyone got the seat they wanted. A win-win situation.

[KIfan1980]

Let me begin by saying that when I'm in the general queue, I will always request a specific row (it depends on my mood which one), but will always follow whatever the Ride Op says and enjoy riding DB no matter what.

Even so, I want them to keep the seat assigner and SRL in place to keep the line moving as fast as it does. Here's why:

• With assigned seats trains leave full (most of the time), without the seat assigner they wouldn't
• If you assume a 1.5min dispatch time on DB with full trains this would be 1280 people per hour
• Without full trains (I assumed 2 empty's per train based upon my SRL experiences and looking at other coasters at the park), would cut this down to 1200pph
• Getting those extra 80 people on would increase my wait in line by another 5 minutes

[Mikewhy]

^--- Waiting an extra 5 minutes to sit whereever I please on Diamondback is a very small price to pay IMHO!

[KIfan1980]

^- Two things:

When looked at simply, I understand your point, 5 minutes is not a big deal, but think about it this way. No seat assigner would mean that everyone in line would have to wait an extra 5 minutes every time they rode DB and over the course of a day >900 less total riders

Having the seat assigner does not stop you from asking for a specific row from the general queue and also allows for the SRL to exist which has saved me much more than 5 minutes many many times

[DeLorean Rider]

I think you'd be quite surprised how many empty seats there are when seats are not assigned, even with a long line.

I remember while working The Beast that per train there was probably 5 empty seats per train (often times more). (The person running the control panel has to press the empty seat counter so you become very aware of empty seats.)

In an hour, The Beast gets 25 trains (as a very low average). Five empty seats per train is 125 people per hour.

People act like without a separator there wont be that many empty seats but it's not true. You wouldn't believe how many times the average guest will simply leave rows empty without offering them to other guests, in order to ride in the same train as another part of their group. Empty rows add up VERY fast. That coupled with odd numbered groups; you're looking at a lot more empty seats than you would think.

Think about the Italian Job. The Italian Job can get 60 tains per hour. On a ride that only holds 12 guests, when all the seats are not being filled, it's going to add up.

Diamondback gets on average 41 trains per hour. If they have 5 empty seats per train, thats going to add up very quickly; especially in the long, hot lines of mid-July.

In addition to the obvious capacity reasons, having a separator just keeps the station more pleasent. People aren't forced to stand elbow to elbow, and they still get on the ride faster than if the separator wasn't there. They're not pushing and shoving to get to the line they want, and they're not crowded by those people who couldn't just wait on the stairs for another minute. Plus, as stated, without a separator, there would be no way to facilitate a single rider line.

Also, from my personal experienc at Kings Island, I cannot forsee any time where Kings Island would justify staffing a person at the entrance to the station to simply "pulse" the line. If the person is going to be there, they're going to be working, and they're going to be assigning seats.

As people have stated before, the great majority of average guests do not care where they sit. For the few that really care about it, you can always ask the separator.

The separator knows what they're doing; they're not idiots; they were trained for this job; they do this job everyday; they see a lot of situations; they know when they can and cannot grant requests. Like people have said, most times you will get your request, however in the event that it cannot be granted, remember, it's nothing personal, it's just because of the current situation.

[violakat03]

There are many older rides that still have a separator. Flight of Fear and BLSC at Kings Dominion still assigns seats. Magnum at CP pulses the line (though they could definitely do a better job of this, it's still normally a madhouse), and Maverick usually either pulses the line or assigns seats. BLSC at KI still assigns seats on busy days.

[House]

Did you mean Millenium?

[violakat03]

I forgot to add Millennium in there, but all the rest of them I named have separators too. Millie sometimes pulses and sometimes assigns.

[Tchu]

I've personally not had my seat assigned on Millie before, and that includes trips when the park was crazy busy such as the last weekend in June and mid-October during Haunt season when things are nuts. If they assign seats on MF... it must be a very rare occasion.

I cannot forsee any time where Kings Island would justify staffing a person at the entrance to the station to simply "pulse" the line. If the person is going to be there, they're going to be working, and they're going to be assigning seats.

I find that to be a rather silly notion. An employee pulsing the line is working. In fact, they're doing the same exact thing the "seat assigner" is doing... keeping a quick flow to the line and managing the station area so it does not become congested, cramped, and inefficient. The only thing they aren't doing is specifically assigning seats, which as mentioned in this thread, hasn't proven to save any sort of significant time waiting in line.

I don't understand why people are so convinced that things would fall apart and that KI will continue to assign seats when you can look up north to coasters like MF and Maverick which run without a seat assigner, and even farther up north to another of KI's sister parks where Behemoth abandoned seat assigning during its first operating season and all reports from Canada's Wonderland is that the line continues to move just fine... quickly and efficiently.

[violakat03]

I've been assigned my seat on Millie pretty much every time I've ridden it. Must just be when I visit! I've never been assigned on Magnum and been assigned once out of 2 rides on Maverick.