KI Security very disappointing

[The Interpreter]

I must disagree with you to an extent. Talking to ride operators (who, as their job title indicates, are there to operate rides), should not be the proper procedure. These are not "sob stories." IMO, they are legitimate issues brought up by people who paid to go to the park, and feel that they did not get their money's worth. It is the responsibility of management to provide a safe environment and protect their paying customers from punks and thugs. And if they don't, they will have fewer paying customers who don't fall into those two categories and more who do.

See also, for evidence, any Six Flags park during the Gary Story days, from Six Flags over Georgia, to Magic Mountain to Great Adventure to Great America to, yes, Kentucky Kingdom. The minute your park gets identified as gang-infested and filled with hoodlums, you have a serious problem. One that takes a lot of time, patience and money to fix.

[CoasterXtreme]

I must disagree with you to an extent. Talking to ride operators (who, as their job title indicates, are there to operate rides), should not be the proper procedure. These are not "sob stories." IMO, they are legitimate issues brought up by people who paid to go to the park, and feel that they did not get their money's worth. It is the responsibility of management to provide a safe environment and protect their paying customers from punks and thugs. And if they don't, they will have fewer paying customers who don't fall into those two categories and more who do.

See also, for evidence, any Six Flags park during the Gary Story days, from Six Flags over Georgia, to Magic Mountain to Great Adventure to Great America to, yes, Kentucky Kingdom. The minute your park gets identified as gang-infested and filled with hoodlums, you have a serious problem. One that takes a lot of time, patience and money to fix.

Not to mention less people coming into the park, which = less money spent, which = no more big rides like Diamondback. Park Management can not be every where in the park at once. So it is our DUTY as park enthusiasts, season pass holders and unit holders (just for you Terpy) to call security, make complaints at guest services and help park management make Kings Island the best park it can be!

[SOB_TOM]

Mr. Beetle,

Actually, that is the proper procedure. In fact, and I doubt this has changed much since 07, the roaming security guards were NOT in charge of the lines. The Ride Operators were in charge of the lines, and what went on within them.

When I went through training to be a ride operator in 2002, I was told that as soon as the person is in the line, they are our responsibility. The job title might not describe it, however one job that EVERY employee at Kings Island has is safety and security. For a ride operator who is working on a ride (lets say, SOB,) they are trained to operate the ride AND police the lines, maintaining order on THEIR platform to ensure smooth and safe operating procedures. This extends from the platform down to the queue house to the entrance of said ride. Even the exits are the ride operators' territory.

And as for those operators who do not act on such infringements, unfortunately I do not work for the park anymore. I would say replace them, put them on a food stand or a game, but that is not my decision.

[hamoperator]

When I was a ride op, I had several people escorted out of the park in shiny bracelets that were connected by the Mason Police for linejumping.

? Does not sound right ! Cut off their xxxxs, call their parents, take away their birthday, but put someone in handcuffs for line jumping???

[markr]

Mr. Beetle,

Actually, that is the proper procedure. In fact, and I doubt this has changed much since 07, the roaming security guards were NOT in charge of the lines. The Ride Operators were in charge of the lines, and what went on within them.

When I went through training to be a ride operator in 2002, I was told that as soon as the person is in the line, they are our responsibility. The job title might not describe it, however one job that EVERY employee at Kings Island has is safety and security. For a ride operator who is working on a ride (lets say, SOB,) they are trained to operate the ride AND police the lines, maintaining order on THEIR platform to ensure smooth and safe operating procedures. This extends from the platform down to the queue house to the entrance of said ride. Even the exits are the ride operators' territory.

And as for those operators who do not act on such infringements, unfortunately I do not work for the park anymore. I would say replace them, put them on a food stand or a game, but that is not my decision.

I totally disagree with you. Security is the job of police officers/security, not ride operators. Are you telling me that say, a 5 foot 1 inch female ride attendant is expected to handle an unruly 6 feet 220 lb male? What happens if she gets hurt on the job? Who is going to pay her medical bills? KI? Worker's Compensation?

I don't understand what is the big deal of simply having police officers at all the busy rides. This is exactly what they do at CP and it works very well up there as far as keeping order. Since KI is owned by Cedarfair why not do the same thing at KI? In fact I do think security at KI has improved by increasingly using the KI police in addition to regular security to patrol the park.

[buckeyemaniac]

I totally disagree with you. Security is the job of police officers/security, not ride operators. Are you telling me that say, a 5 foot 1 inch female ride attendant is expected to handle an unruly 6 feet 220 lb male? What happens if she gets hurt on the job? Who is going to pay her medical bills? KI? Worker's Compensation?

I don't understand what is the big deal of simply having police officers at all the busy rides. This is exactly what they do at CP and it works very well up there as far as keeping order. Since KI is owned by Cedarfair why not do the same thing at KI? In fact I do think security at KI has improved by increasingly using the KI police in addition to regular security to patrol the park.

Doesn't really matter if you disagree with him. That is the policy in the park. If you see someone line jumping or doing anything else in the line then tell the ride op. If need be the ride op will call security.

[SOB_TOM]

Actually, KI has an agreement with the Mason Police Department that states the parking lot is jurisdiction for Mason Police, inside the park is KI's jurisdiction, unless someone is being arrested. That is the only time Mason will come on premisis, so augmenting the Mason police would actually have more cops in the parking lot.

And Buckeye, that is EXACTLY how it works.

[BavarianBeatle]

Mr. Beetle,

Actually, that is the proper procedure. In fact, and I doubt this has changed much since 07, the roaming security guards were NOT in charge of the lines. The Ride Operators were in charge of the lines, and what went on within them.

When I went through training to be a ride operator in 2002, I was told that as soon as the person is in the line, they are our responsibility. The job title might not describe it, however one job that EVERY employee at Kings Island has is safety and security. For a ride operator who is working on a ride (lets say, SOB,) they are trained to operate the ride AND police the lines, maintaining order on THEIR platform to ensure smooth and safe operating procedures. This extends from the platform down to the queue house to the entrance of said ride. Even the exits are the ride operators' territory.

And as for those operators who do not act on such infringements, unfortunately I do not work for the park anymore. I would say replace them, put them on a food stand or a game, but that is not my decision.

Well, I said "should not" be the proper procedure...... And I believe that everything you said is accurate. My disagreement is not with you, but with the policy you describe: if ride operators are in charge of policing line jumping and the potential confrontations that could result, that, in and of itself, IMO, is a problem! God forbid if several large men started physically fighting over a line jumping incident, I would not want to see one of the little girls who operate the rides try to stop that! In fact, I wouldn't try to stop it myself, I would be trying to keep my kids out of the way. And further, if my kids wound up in the middle of such a confrontation, the fact that that three or four teenagers would be our only defense does not exactly inspire a great sense of safety in my mind when it comes to that type of situation.

[violakat03]

I can't guarantee that it's the same way now, but during Paramount days, KI did indeed have it's own police force. My husband applied to be on it but did not have Ohio certification at the time, just Tennessee. The way they described it working is that all KI police officers have to be approved by Mason police before being hired and must meet Mason's guidelines (such as OPOTA certification, and they do not take out-of-state transfers) because KI is not a city and therefore cannot have a state-approved police department. However, they were not full-time Mason officers and did not work for Mason in the off-season nor work for Mason in any capacity outside of the park, though I believe they technically are Mason officers. Mason police handles the parking lot, including accident reports, and can be called in to the park just as they can be called into a shopping mall for additional help.

When I was a witness to an assault in the park, I was asked to give a statement to both KI police and Mason police. KI security responded to the scene, followed by KI police and then Mason police when they got on property. KI security detained the suspect until KI police arrived, and the KI police made the arrest and transferred the suspect to the Mason officers when they got there, who escorted the person off property and to jail.

And contrary to what appears to be popular belief, security is not completely powerless. All security guards, whether they work at KI, the mall, or wherever, have to be certified by the state. This security certification does give them powers of arrest until police can arrive on scene and the authority to remove people from the private property that employs them for any reason deemed appropriate by the property owner. This is why mall security can ask you to leave if you cause a scene without actually breaking any laws. At the time you are asked to leave a private property and refuse, you can and will be arrested for trespassing.

If you are ever threatened or assaulted (even something as simple as being pushed or spit on) and tell security that you want to press charges against the offender, they must follow through on it or it would be a dereliction of duties, which the state really looks down upon. Security or police cannot back you up in your charges and the burden of proof is on you (unless it happens in front of a camera, in which case your lawyer could help you get those recordings) but they will ensure that the charges are filed.

[CedarPointer]

Actually, that is the proper procedure. In fact, and I doubt this has changed much since 07, the roaming security guards were NOT in charge of the lines. The Ride Operators were in charge of the lines, and what went on within them.

Hmm. Clearly, that isn't working...

[markr]

If I am not mistaken KI still has it own police force as I have seen KI police officers around the park. Obviously CP has a very strong police force. What would keep Cedar Fair from making KI"s police force just as strong as CP's ?

[Diamondback FOF]

...

And contrary to what appears to be popular belief, security is not completely powerless. All security guards, whether they work at KI, the mall, or wherever, have to be certified by the state. This security certification does give them powers of arrest until police can arrive on scene and the authority to remove people from the private property that employs them for any reason deemed appropriate by the property owner. This is why mall security can ask you to leave if you cause a scene without actually breaking any laws. At the time you are asked to leave a private property and refuse, you can and will be arrested for trespassing.

If you are ever threatened or assaulted (even something as simple as being pushed or spit on) and tell security that you want to press charges against the offender, they must follow through on it or it would be a dereliction of duties, which the state really looks down upon. Security or police cannot back you up in your charges and the burden of proof is on you (unless it happens in front of a camera, in which case your lawyer could help you get those recordings) but they will ensure that the charges are filed.

As far as the certification giving the security at Kings Island power of arrest, don't they have this kind of arrest power anyways? So they could actually 'arrest' the person, either holding them until Mason Police arrive, or even taking them to the Mason Police Station.

As to a police officer backing you up on assault charges, I thought they could testify in you favor if they saw the incident occur.

If I am not mistaken KI still has it own police force as I have seen KI police officers around the park. Obviously CP has a very strong police force. What would keep Cedar Fair from making KI"s police force just as strong as CP's ?

Because CP uses the police from Sandusky and I guess they don't want to spend that much extra money to get Mason's police force into KI. Or it could be Mason doesn't have a big enough police force to serve the city plus have that strong of a presence in KI. Those are the only guesses I could come up with.

[MarketingExpress]

For those who say that a little ride operator can’t handle a big line jumper here’s how we did it….

We would get the complaint from 2 independent parties or more regarding the line jumpers. You would be surprised on the number of parties after hearing the line jumping policy explained to the original party that complains that would voluntarily step in and say, We saw them line jump too. We would let them wait in line, even up to the point that we would let them get onto the ride waiting to be checked. They are in a vulnerable position at this point because chances are they are sitting down and you are standing above them somehow. This is when you explain to them, “I have had [blank] complaints that you and/or your friends jumped ahead in line. What I need you to do is exit the ride and if you wish to ride you will need to wait in the entire line again. Most of the time the line jumper will stand up and exit the ride without a fuss, but every once in a while you will get someone who gets angry, even though they may be guilty and refuse to get up. At that point I would tell them, This ride will not move as long as you are sitting in it. I always save the security threat as a last resort for those who refuse to get off the ride (1 incident in 6 seasons). I simply reiterate that the ride will not move with them on it and that if they hold up operation any longer I will call security and they can speak with them. In my one instance that this happened they did get off the ride after that.

I think this way is effective because you are basically calling them out in front of everyone in the station, and the public embarrassment is enough to cause them to get up and leave most of the time without incident.

[LongLiveTheSmurfRide]

Sadly enough, I know some people that got in so much trouble that Mason police had to take them out of the park last year in cuffs. I won't relay who they are (but they're almost technically family that I don't associate with).

They (husband and wife) went to the park and were smoking in line (I think for BLSC). I believe guests told them to stop. They didn't. Then security was called and told them to stop. They wouldn't, and were making a big deal about "blah blah, I have a right to smoke, blah blah, you can't make me, blah blah, I'm a baby..." whatever. They were basically being threatening.

So the Mason police come and force them out of the line and are going to escort them out of the park and they get even more violent and actually strike an officer.

Long story short, they spent a day in jail (got out on some high amount of bail), were charged with resisting arrest, assaulting an officer and disorderly conduct. All that stuff, yet I STILL hear them talk about it (at family functions) like they were in the right.

I have a feeling that a lot of GP have this kind of attitude when it comes to park security, like it's something not to be taken seriously and that they paid to get in so they should be allowed to do what they want.

Anyway, it's not exactly on topic, but wanted to throw in a story I know of security taking care of a problem. They actually wanted to go with us to the park once. Haha, yeah right.

Is there a "banned persons" list with KI where people who go to that extreme in the park are banned? Like do they have Wanted posters on the wall to keep them from getting a pass the following year or anything?

[Kawana]

I've came to notice security has become more lax at the front gate. They use to always go threw my camera bags now they hardly ever do.

Every time I go with my camera, they check my bag.

Security inside the park is a laughing stock. Yesterday (6-8) I saw a woman smoking outside a designated smoking area near the age and weight game in Oktoberfest and I saw a security guard walking behind her and the guard did nothing. Way to go KI security! Isn't that what the security force is supposed to be looking for? The simple fact that the security force can not or will not enforce park policy is troubling.

[Beast79]

To change the subject just a little but jumpers and security is still involved with this story, back when MTV used to have dance parties at ki I was working Congo Falls and we had a guest jump off the boat on to the catwalk next to the turn then jumped back in before the drop, luckily security was walking up the exit and seen it too and ran over to wait for him exit and yes Mason did hand cuff him and walked him out. Years later when I work maintenance on Congo while standing on the turn around I just imagined how he did it and how lucky he was that he didn't miss the cat walk completely.

[Mikewhy]

Anytime I have reported line jumpers to the ride ops, they shrug and do nothing, or the line jumpers have already ridden before I get up there. That policy is not adequate for addressing the problem. The busy or most complained about rides need to be monitored by security.

I am sorry to hear of another bad experience in the park. Several people I know are starting to avoid KI because of what they see happening there. It is very unforunate, and I hope things get better soon.