Geauga Lake

[Outdoor Man]

oh, why not add my $0.02.

i agree with several posts that Six Flags caused the park to expand faster and more than the market would provide. BUT- you're sandwiched between Cleveland, Arkon, Canton, Youngstown, and not real far from columbus and Pittsburgh. The drawing area was huge. Six flags probably sold it because it was the park that they could get the most for at the time.

I think CF had intentions to modify the park back into something that would be profitable... i mean- you don't spend $140 million on a vendetta. They tried to keep the park going with few changes to the Ride line up between 2004-2006. They didn't remove a ride until 2007. So, you're CF and you realized that you probably made a bad move by buying a park investment. Removing the Wildlife side killed the very thing that set you apart. Any amusement park has roller coasters (and their flats were pretty substandard) and most now have waterparks. $25 admission wasn't exactly bringing the patrons in like prarie fire. You have already abandoned those that came for the low-key family atmosphere with adding thrill rides and rollercoasters..... so now you run the risk of alienating those that came for the thrill rides. Attendance is way down, and you don't see anything changing that in the next 5 years..... OH- and all economic indicators say that we're about to enter a pretty harsh recession.

Meanwhile, you have a stockpile of parks you just bought that have a following that demands a new ride experiences with regularity.... and you have an underperforming park..... with a whole property of rides that you could parcel out for pennies on the investment over the next 3-5 years and rebrand them as "new" experiences. Firehawk was a GREAT add to the park, and while it wasn't new it WAS new to the Kings Island crowd. it did cost money to transport, but not nearly what a new coaster desgined from scratch would have been. So, maybe you're out $140 for the purchase of GL... but re-branding 7 of your coasters as new to other parks may have almost made that loss a "wash."

I think the CF had intentions to make GL successful, but in the end had the thought of "if we can't make it successful under our terms.... no one is." Why on earth would you sell it to another entity that would try to make it compete with CP and cut into your bottom line... again?

It sucks if you're a "history" person.. but lets keep it in perspective also... it's a business designed to make money- and when its not you have to make decisions despite the popular opinion.

The ONLY mistake I see from the last year was that they should have just been honest with the public and had a "farewell" month... they could have had a HUGE turnout with one last large pay out from the park before shuttering it.

[Tomkatt7]

The ONLY mistake I see from the last year was that they should have just been honest with the public and had a "farewell" month... they could have had a HUGE turnout with one last large pay out from the park before shuttering it.

The only problem with that would have been, the decision to close the park had already been made. Then people show up in droves to get one last look at the park. All of a sudden it turns in to how can you still close the park? Attendance was up 300% over the last month?

I don't want a sad day at Kings Island. I am really upset about Nick U leaving. I am not going to make a special trip for one last look at it though. I would spend the day being upset at all the stuff that would be leaving, and not enjoy everything else that the park has to offer. I'd rather just keep the memories, and photos that I have, and remember that no matter what, those good times will be with me forever.

[KDCOASTERFAN]

Sorry for the double post, but there's a bit more I think I should say about the former management team of SIX and their thought process.

There's another company who has been failed by a critical flaw in their decision making process that is strikingly similar to Six Flags: And that is General Motors.

Both companies, for years, have set their target on their competitors instead of their guests. If you look back about 10 years, to the time when GM was realigning their brands to try to save the customer base of the outgoing Oldsmobile brand, you'll see that they worked hard, and spent tons of money, trying to chase other brands. Cadillac was to become their "BMW fighter." Buick was to be their "Lexus fighter." Investment in the future Chevrolet Malibu was ramped up so that it could be their "Camry fighter." In the last 4 or 5 years, in the wake of Honda, Ford, and Toyota publicly announcing that transaction prices had gone up substantially, indicating strong customer demand for new, expensive options like navigation systems, heated and air conditioned seats, and panoramic glass roofs, GM saw this as a push to take their Saturn brand upmarket. They started throwing all kinds of money into importing and rebranding Opel models from Europe, which were very nice, but expensive. The new Aura, Astra, and new VUE arrived to dealers with critical acclaim, and they sat. And sat.

Where did they go wrong? They set their sights on, and targeted, their competitors instead of their customers. They didn't care that Saturn had been a brand of inexpensive, economical, and reasonably solid cars, for more than 10 years. They saw what others were doing and followed, with no regard for who THIER customers were.

Six Flags did the exact same thing with SFO. They set their sights on Cedar Point, and looked to defeat them by copying them. What they got so very wrong is that Cedar Point isn't just a coaster park. They have a great collection of flats, good shows, 3 solid childrens areas, and a strong resort atmosphere which brings in visitors from a much larger geographical area than Geauga Lake ever had.

What they SHOULD have done is to target Cedar Point's guests... why do they go to Cedar Point? Where does that park have some weaknesses that we can exploit? What can we do different from them that will bring people here instead of there? I see a few weaknesses that could have been exploited - the value proposition, as well as the quality and value of food service. What if Six Flags had only added one or two new headline attractions (instead of 4), and included free parking? Free soft drinks? High quality, affordable food options? All of those things are very marketable, and would have done wonders for retaining customers. SF had no problem getting them through the gates (attracting as many as 2 million a year), but they failed at keeping them as customers. The experience from the view of their target customer (families who come into the park and spend) was not a good one.

I think that offering in the wildlife park was very nice, but I think that if a marine life park in northern Ohio was a money making venture, Sea World would have stayed in the business.

That's a good comparison but in a way SFI WAS targeting CP's guests....just in what turned out to be the wrong way by attempting to turn a small park into a mega park & focusing on coasters at the expense of customer service,as SFI went further ahead with their insane expansion plans their poor business practices coupled with the collapse of the economy(we can thank Bush for that one)is what brought the chain down.SFWOA fell by the wayside(as did SFA for example) when SFI got it in their heads to focus development on only two or three of their parks while leaving the others to essentialy rot,anyone remember that hyper SFWOA was supposed to get? The reason they never got it was because SFI had the stupid idea to dump almost all of their cap ex budget into SFMM's coaster building spree,had that not happened & SFWOA/GL recieved an influx of rides at a decent pace then the ride park might still be around today.

[PREMiERdrum]

(we can thank Bush for that one)

The northeast Ohio, Michigan, and Western PA economies were falling long before Bush was in office, and to blame a cyclical recession on one person shows great ignorance on the subject - unless you have specific policies that you think caused the recession.

Capital Expenditures (like the long rumored hyper along Depot Rd) wouldn't have been enough to save SFWoA. The park was a flawed execution of a good concept, that, like someone said earlier, probably would have been able to succeed in a climate allowing a longer season. The inherit design flaws with the park (cramped water park with no room for expansion, guest flow bottlenecks with no easy fix) mixed with the astronomical operating costs (mostly on the wildlife side) never gave this park a chance to succeed. Had the animal park stayed a separate gate - with discounted combo tickets to the ride park and animal park, it might have had a chance, and at the very least would have allowed them to keep a quantitative tab on how much the animals bring in (which could then have been used as a goal for operating costs on that side of the park). The ride side should have grown into a medium sized SF park (in the vein of Elitch I'm thinking), and they should have promoted multi-day stays with hotel and multi-park packages. But, woulda coulda shoulda I guess.

The SIX management gurus were pretty dense, but if the park was a money maker, or even had the prospect of long term survival, they wouldn't have sold. They weren't that stupid. They let SFWoA go before several other smaller properties that, ironically, might have been good candidates for CF purchase before the PP buyout. The park was a pretty nice place to if you visited on a less busy weekday, but it didn't have a chance in NE Ohio.

[PREMiERdrum]

oh, why not add my $0.02.

i agree with several posts that Six Flags caused the park to expand faster and more than the market would provide. BUT- you're sandwiched between Cleveland, Arkon, Canton, Youngstown, and not real far from columbus and Pittsburgh. The drawing area was huge. Six flags probably sold it because it was the park that they could get the most for at the time.

I think CF had intentions to modify the park back into something that would be profitable... i mean- you don't spend $140 million on a vendetta. They tried to keep the park going with few changes to the Ride line up between 2004-2006. They didn't remove a ride until 2007. So, you're CF and you realized that you probably made a bad move by buying a park investment. Removing the Wildlife side killed the very thing that set you apart. Any amusement park has roller coasters (and their flats were pretty substandard) and most now have waterparks. $25 admission wasn't exactly bringing the patrons in like prarie fire. You have already abandoned those that came for the low-key family atmosphere with adding thrill rides and rollercoasters..... so now you run the risk of alienating those that came for the thrill rides. Attendance is way down, and you don't see anything changing that in the next 5 years..... OH- and all economic indicators say that we're about to enter a pretty harsh recession.

Meanwhile, you have a stockpile of parks you just bought that have a following that demands a new ride experiences with regularity.... and you have an underperforming park..... with a whole property of rides that you could parcel out for pennies on the investment over the next 3-5 years and rebrand them as "new" experiences. Firehawk was a GREAT add to the park, and while it wasn't new it WAS new to the Kings Island crowd. it did cost money to transport, but not nearly what a new coaster desgined from scratch would have been. So, maybe you're out $140 for the purchase of GL... but re-branding 7 of your coasters as new to other parks may have almost made that loss a "wash."

I think the CF had intentions to make GL successful, but in the end had the thought of "if we can't make it successful under our terms.... no one is." Why on earth would you sell it to another entity that would try to make it compete with CP and cut into your bottom line... again?

It sucks if you're a "history" person.. but lets keep it in perspective also... it's a business designed to make money- and when its not you have to make decisions despite the popular opinion.

The ONLY mistake I see from the last year was that they should have just been honest with the public and had a "farewell" month... they could have had a HUGE turnout with one last large pay out from the park before shuttering it.

I agree with all of this. I think we're on the same page.

[Beast1979]

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

I went to Geauga Lake in July of 2007. And quite honestly, if I was given the option of reliving one day of my life, this day could very well be it. I went there for the second half of the day with my cousins, and crowds were not to be found. Fantastic rides, friendly atmosphere, great location (Along the lake), and it had, in my opinion, something most parks lack. A little, what's the word....charm. It was really nice. That was the park I turned my cousins into coaster enthusiasts at, the park where I rode my first ever B&M Roller coaster, my first Miller ride, it was a truly wonderful park.

I went back to Cleveland in September. My grandma showed me the paper. It was closed.

I don't hold any vendettas over this. It wasn't anyone's intentional doing to ruin the park. From what I can understand, there were 2 things that led to it's demise.

1. The removal of Sea World Ohio. That was a major attraction in the Cleveland area from what I can hear, and it was a popular park. Removing it did, as locals have told me, drive some away.

2. Overloading the park. Before Six Flags took over, the park only had a handful of roller coasters, a lot of room, and plenty of potential. 5 years later, the park is competing with Cedar Point for roller coasters. To much, to soon. While it may cause attendance to shoot through the roof when they first added them, what do they think 6 years later, when there's still yet to be anything new, because Flag's is still paying off those rides?

And then, Cedar Fair takes over. Well, you've just bought a park with an overlapping market with your flagship park, has small crowds, and not much left for expansion. What are you gonna do? What would you do? The park wasn't making money. It was much more lucrative to close the park and sell the assets then to keep it going. They didn't do it because they are evil villains with capes and a monotonous laugh who do this stuff for sh*ts and giggles. Because they are a business and Geauga Lake wasn't working.

And then they kept the waterpark open. Uhm...what? "Hey everyone, we closed a timeless classic, one of your favorite passtimes, a wonderful park, but we still left the water park side open! It's kinda cool....it's got like, slides and stuff....Buy season passes and enjoy the 2.5 month summer of Northern Ohio at Wildwater Kingdom!" And then they obviously show no intention of keeping it going for long by basically adding nothing in 2008, 2009 or 2010.

[CedarPointer]

I do not understand WWK being open. "Hey guys, you can still fork money over to CF if you want!"

[TTD Maverick]

Here are my thoughts on the subject:

I went to Geauga Lake in July of 2007. And quite honestly, if I was given the option of reliving one day of my life, this day could very well be it. I went there for the second half of the day with my cousins, and crowds were not to be found. Fantastic rides, friendly atmosphere, great location (Along the lake), and it had, in my opinion, something most parks lack. A little, what's the word....charm. It was really nice. That was the park I turned my cousins into coaster enthusiasts at, the park where I rode my first ever B&M Roller coaster, my first Miller ride, it was a truly wonderful park.

I went back to Cleveland in September. My grandma showed me the paper. It was closed.

I don't hold any vendettas over this. It wasn't anyone's intentional doing to ruin the park. From what I can understand, there were 2 things that led to it's demise.

1. The removal of Sea World Ohio. That was a major attraction in the Cleveland area from what I can hear, and it was a popular park. Removing it did, as locals have told me, drive some away.

2. Overloading the park. Before Six Flags took over, the park only had a handful of roller coasters, a lot of room, and plenty of potential. 5 years later, the park is competing with Cedar Point for roller coasters. To much, to soon. While it may cause attendance to shoot through the roof when they first added them, what do they think 6 years later, when there's still yet to be anything new, because Flag's is still paying off those rides?

And then, Cedar Fair takes over. Well, you've just bought a park with an overlapping market with your flagship park, has small crowds, and not much left for expansion. What are you gonna do? What would you do? The park wasn't making money. It was much more lucrative to close the park and sell the assets then to keep it going. They didn't do it because they are evil villains with capes and a monotonous laugh who do this stuff for sh*ts and giggles. Because they are a business and Geauga Lake wasn't working.

And then they kept the waterpark open. Uhm...what? "Hey everyone, we closed a timeless classic, one of your favorite passtimes, a wonderful park, but we still left the water park side open! It's kinda cool....it's got like, slides and stuff....Buy season passes and enjoy the 2.5 month summer of Northern Ohio at Wildwater Kingdom!" And then they obviously show no intention of keeping it going for long by basically adding nothing in 2008, 2009 or 2010.

Are you kidding? I'm sorry, but that's just sad.

[Beast1979]

Are YOU serious? I'm sorry but that's just very rude of you. There were a lot of things that happened on that day, a lot non-coaster related and personal, and for you to make assumptions and jabs at things like that is very immature and wrong of you. Your posts are really starting to annoy me.

[TTD Maverick]

Are YOU serious? I'm sorry but that's just very rude of you. There were a lot of things that happened on that day, a lot non-coaster related and personal, and for you to make assumptions and jabs at things like that is very immature and wrong of you. Your posts are really starting to annoy me.

You did not make that clear AT ALL.. If it was personal say it, because in the post it made it sound because it was just cause it was at an amusement park.

How am I supposed to know that anyway? No it's not immature and wrong. It's a valid question because not many people, if having the choice, choose to relive a day at an amusement park rather to something a little more deep. If you're going to have a fit of how I misunderstood you, make yourself a bit more clear the first time.

...Moving on.

Geauga looked horrible to me. Badly maintained, cruddy staff, rides were often down, and was poorly landscaped. It is sad that it is no more, though.

[BavarianBeatle]

The reason I am baffled by this is because it is so unneeded.... It's Sandusky, for God's sake!! A northern climate on the water with indoor water attractions in the same city and a huge inland sea nearby. CP is a resort that draws people from all over the country, and I don't see people from far away coming to CP to ride this (especially when KD and CW are options for them next year)...... As I said in my prior post, this addition doesn't make sense, and the more I think about it, the less sense it makes.......

Look, it is capitalism, which is part of living in a free country... If I was CF and had the opportunity to buy and dismantle the closest competitor to my flagship park, I would do it in a heartbeat!! My only problem with the whole GL situation is that I miss the times that I spent living east of Cleveland with GL as my "home park" and the failure to preserve Big Dipper......

[Beast1979]

Are YOU serious? I'm sorry but that's just very rude of you. There were a lot of things that happened on that day, a lot non-coaster related and personal, and for you to make assumptions and jabs at things like that is very immature and wrong of you. Your posts are really starting to annoy me.

You did not make that clear AT ALL.. If it was personal say it, because in the post it made it sound because it was just cause it was at an amusement park.

How am I supposed to know that anyway? No it's not immature and wrong. It's a valid question because not many people, if having the choice, choose to relive a day at an amusement park rather to something a little more deep. If you're going to have a fit of how I misunderstood you, make yourself a bit more clear the first time.

...Moving on.

Geauga looked horrible to me. Badly maintained, cruddy staff, rides were often down, and was poorly landscaped. It is sad that it is no more, though.

It's one thing to misunderstand something. It's quite another to say it's sad and insult me because you don't have a full stroy. I didn't give a full story because it's personal, off topic, and I wasn't expecting anyone to judge me because of it, as you did.

Your posts are quite annoying me. It seems to me that you have no care for the way to behaive and become an upstanding member of this board, rather this is just a place for you to rant, complain, and start arguments with other members who have obviously gone through many more years of maturity then you seem to have. And when other members tell you to politely stop and think about how much of a child you're being, you take it as a personal attack and start to yell at senior members who actually know what they're talking about.

Please, straighten up and fly right. I'm ready to block you.

[Browns4life]

Geauga looked horrible to me. Badly maintained, cruddy staff, rides were often down, and was poorly landscaped. It is sad that it is no more, though.

Have you ever been there? Cuz it was my home park for years, and i never experienced any of that...

[Diamondback FOF]

^^^^

Uh. Some people don't want to state things when they are personal. And you say if he could relive one day that it shouldn't be at an amusement park? There ie a charity call Make-A-Wish. They give kids an opportunity to make one wish and that is granted (if it's within reason for that kids physical condition). A lot of the children choose to go to amusement parks because they've never been to one. I realize that Beast1979 has been to a few, but it's no different. Some people want to relive days at places that they love, or a day when they did something that they love. He was near Cleveland visiting family. Maybe he doesn't visit them often, so that was special. Also, it was a day at a park that not longer really exists. Also, it could've been a unique experience. See, he could have many reasons for what he said. I, for instance, would love to relive the first day I ever went to the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World. That was a special day because I spent it with my family on the first vacation I ever took.

[TTD Maverick]

^^^^

Uh. Some people don't want to state things when they are personal. And you say if he could relive one day that it shouldn't be at an amusement park? There ie a charity call Make-A-Wish. They give kids an opportunity to make one wish and that is granted (if it's within reason for that kids physical condition). A lot of the children choose to go to amusement parks because they've never been to one. I realize that Beast1979 has been to a few, but it's no different. Some people want to relive days at places that they love, or a day when they did something that they love. He was near Cleveland visiting family. Maybe he doesn't visit them often, so that was special. Also, it was a day at a park that not longer really exists. Also, it could've been a unique experience. See, he could have many reasons for what he said. I, for instance, would love to relive the first day I ever went to the Magic Kingdom at Walt Disney World. That was a special day because I spent it with my family on the first vacation I ever took.

Ok.

[TTD Maverick]

Geauga looked horrible to me. Badly maintained, cruddy staff, rides were often down, and was poorly landscaped. It is sad that it is no more, though.

Have you ever been there? Cuz it was my home park for years, and i never experienced any of that...

READ THE THREAD AND STOP SINGLING ME OUT! I gave an opinion and you object as ALWAYS!

[TTD Maverick]

Are YOU serious? I'm sorry but that's just very rude of you. There were a lot of things that happened on that day, a lot non-coaster related and personal, and for you to make assumptions and jabs at things like that is very immature and wrong of you. Your posts are really starting to annoy me.

You did not make that clear AT ALL.. If it was personal say it, because in the post it made it sound because it was just cause it was at an amusement park.

How am I supposed to know that anyway? No it's not immature and wrong. It's a valid question because not many people, if having the choice, choose to relive a day at an amusement park rather to something a little more deep. If you're going to have a fit of how I misunderstood you, make yourself a bit more clear the first time.

...Moving on.

Geauga looked horrible to me. Badly maintained, cruddy staff, rides were often down, and was poorly landscaped. It is sad that it is no more, though.

It's one thing to misunderstand something. It's quite another to say it's sad and insult me because you don't have a full stroy. I didn't give a full story because it's personal, off topic, and I wasn't expecting anyone to judge me because of it, as you did.

Your posts are quite annoying me. It seems to me that you have no care for the way to behaive and become an upstanding member of this board, rather this is just a place for you to rant, complain, and start arguments with other members who have obviously gone through many more years of maturity then you seem to have. And when other members tell you to politely stop and think about how much of a child you're being, you take it as a personal attack and start to yell at senior members who actually know what they're talking about.

Please, straighten up and fly right. I'm ready to block you.

Please, you are NOT my mother. So don't tell me what to do. I'm sure on enough people's block list already. And, no one had any idea that it was personal (though they are starting to get me now). OK??

[Diamondback FOF]

^^^Please don't use one word posts. It's against the TOS.

^^He was just responding to what you said. He was standing up for his former home park. Wouldn't you defend KI?

^Wait! You're a child and your mother doesn't tell you what to do? I understand there are some times parents shouldn't tell their kids what to do, but she doesn't tell you what to do?

[Browns4life]

READ THE THREAD AND STOP SINGLING ME OUT! I gave an opinion and you object as ALWAYS!

Dang kid, lighten up, it was an honest question and statement.

[cholderfield]

I'm sure on enough people's block list already.

Maybe you should take that as a hint...

[maverick2007]

Yet another wonderful TTD Maverick induced argument. But seriously though leave Beast1979 and everyone for that matter alone. It's his privilege to have an opinion. That doesn't mean you have to agree with it but to blatantly insult him is absolutely unacceptable. I agree that you need to straighten up and stop starting arguments. Speaking of that how many arguments is this? 3?

On topic though I never got out to GL and now really wish I did. I believe that CF bought the park expressly to divide it up between the other CF parks.

[CedarPointer]

You did not make that clear AT ALL.. If it was personal say it, because in the post it made it sound because it was just cause it was at an amusement park.

How am I supposed to know that anyway? No it's not immature and wrong. It's a valid question because not many people, if having the choice, choose to relive a day at an amusement park rather to something a little more deep. If you're going to have a fit of how I misunderstood you, make yourself a bit more clear the first time.

...Moving on.

Geauga looked horrible to me. Badly maintained, cruddy staff, rides were often down, and was poorly landscaped. It is sad that it is no more, though.

So now you're mad because you made a stupid assumption and he caught you. It's so tragic that we don't all have a million friends like you. Maybe you should take yourself being on almost everyone's ignore list as a hint. I think I speak for everyone when I say we don't like you starting arguments. So either stop it or get out.

[maverick2007]

I think I speak for everyone when I say we don't like you starting arguments. So either stop it or get out.

You said it perfectly. I second that.

[CedarPointer]

And yes, I know that he's going to pull the TOS card. I really don't care.

[maverick2007]

That would be funny seeing he is the one that made the two letter post earlier in this thread

[Beast1979]

I believe that CF bought the park expressly to divide it up between the other CF parks.

If that were the case, then they probably would have gotten a head start on it. Rides did not start clearing out until 2007 with X-Flight and Steel Venom. However, it has been noted by those who have been to the park during both Six Flags and Cedar Fair eras, that the transition of the park, visible on rides such as Batman Knight Flight and the childrens areas were evident of Cedar Fair's possible future of the park, like removing the logos of the front of the train and replacing it with nothing, not keeping the paint on the rides up, and not even bothering to add the Cedar Fair required trim brakes, seatbelts, headrests, seat deviders, and lap bars on Big Dipper!

I think Cedar Fair bought the park seeing if it had any last hope for it, but it became quickly evident that it had outlived itself to that point.

[Browntggrr]

READ THE THREAD AND STOP SINGLING ME OUT! I gave an opinion and you object as ALWAYS!

Nobody needs to single you out.

You do that on your own quite well.

And please understand, that is not an opinion, but a plain fact.

[The Interpreter]

If people wouldn't quote his posts, it'd be much easier for those many others who have blocked him.

It would also deprive him of the attention he so craves...as would not replying to his venom. He would want me to say his name...

Terpy, just sayin'

[Browntggrr]

^ I'm getting the feeling you are hinting at something.

[TTD Maverick]

To all the comments---IDGAF honestly. You don't have to like me because I don't like you either. And I don't deserve this sh*t (contrary to popular belief) You all make me sick. CedarPointer please never quote me again. Diamondback FOF is polite and I appreciate that. Take a hint from him everyone.