2011 what should KI get

[bkroz]

Dive Machines are fantastic, and so far from the one-trick ponies that they're often accused of being. Honestly, I can't see an enthusiast loving them, because I don't know that they excel in forces or timing or pacing. But the GP (myself included) loves them and thinks they're incredible, re-ridable, and involved experiences. Speaking for myself, I'd rather ride a Dive Machine than a hypercoaster any day of the week. Griffon is my #2 steel coaster. They have personality, where I imagine rides like Intimidator, Behemoth, and Diamondback as just being very formulaic and rigid.

I would love to see one come to Kings Island. The problem is, how do you market it - "New in 2013, a ride that's the same height, speed, and length as Diamondback, but this one's ten degrees steeper and does something different!" That's why I don't see it happening. I think my ultimate coaster would be a dive machine that did its drop, went into an Immelman, and then did five or six airtime hills like an out and back, maybe with a hammerhead turn. Imagining airtime hills on that ten-across seating... Wow. Talk about feeling free.

[BeastForever]

It would be awesome!, for them to build an Intamin LSM coaster. Oh yes...

EDIT: But this could be very expensive considering the fact that Maverick cost $21 mill'!

DUBle' EDIT: A B&M Dive Machine would also be awesome.

[Guest Millennium]

^^ I completely agree! Take BGA, I would rather ride Sheikra all day than I would Montu.

But KI hasn't said anything about a new coaster, have they?

[bkroz]

No. And I wouldn't expect one. Cedar Fair's "rotation" program had parks getting major additions about every three years. Then, they attempted to sell to avoid bankruptcy, and Terpy can give us all a lesson on the massive amounts of money they owe, despite what they try to sell to the shareholders. So all bets are off, and any past patterns and practices in relation to new rides mean virtually nothing.

Basically, Cedar Fair did the three year thing with their legacy parks. Then they came into ownership of five new parks, nearly doubling their family. The rides we've gotten since then have been greatly influenced by Geauga Lake's closure, the need to "beef up" the Paramount Parks, and Cedar Fair's financial woes. We have no idea how things will be once (or if) they settle down. Perhaps a pattern will re-emerge. But anything that's happened since June, 2006 should be not on record as the "way Cedar Fair will install new rides from here on out." If it was three years between major rides back when they had five parks and far less financial trouble, then one can only wonder what things are like at CFHQ now...

[Cormaster]

I wouldn't mind a floorless either, though I don't know what to expect from one really. How much different are they from just a B&M sitting coaster like Kumba or Led Zepplin?

Dive Machines are cool but GYK is right on marketing. How do you market another coaster thats 200 feet tall?

Intamin wouldn't be bad as long as they have improved their harnesses. I did like Maverick's OTSR's, but Millie and TTD's harnesses quite frankly suck and only small and short people can fit on them with no problem. My wife couldn't fit, and I BARELY fit... had to have help from the CP staff. Of course we're talking about 1 coaster that's 10 years old and another thats 7. Hopefully by now Intamin has come up with better harnesses... does I305 have the same restraints as Millie?

Of Course we DO Have some Intamin stuff already... WWC, Eiffel Tower, and Drop Tower if I'm correct.

[The Interpreter]

Millennium Force and Top Thrill Dragster have legacy restraints that INTAMIN will no longer use in North America, if anywhere. For the most recent restraints for that type coaster, see Intimidator-305, as amended.

As for the amount of money available for capital investment in the future, much depends on the currently ongoing effort to refinance the larger part of the existing debt...through the banks, and what covenants end up in that debt...most of which will not be publicly disclosed. It was apparently interesting enough to get the banks to agree to the last major coaster installations, which Cedar Fair attempted to defer but was unable to do, according to information Mr. Kinzel publicly disclosed during contemporaneous conference calls.

[Cormaster]

Who knows what they will do. I do agree that KI could use more flats, and now that I've ridden one, I'm all for the screaming swing! Its like a thrill seeker's version of viking fury!

All thing considered though, if they don't give us anything it's not a bad thing. I wouldn't mind seeing them maybe do some 'touching up' of the park. Get a new program for the Crypt that doesn't involve a giant top spin spinning in the dark. I rode the original Tomb Raider when it had all its effects in place and it was very impressive... now I avoid that ride at all costs! Also they could fix some of the stuff on BLSC like the "spashdown" effect that hasn't worked in forever. Maybe give Flight Deck a Paint job. Maybe find away to make Firehawk load more efficiently, not take 3 hours to load everytime!

[hausty1983]

I agree also KI needs more flat rides in the park. I see us lacking in that area when it comes to the Screamin Swing at Cedar Point. We should get one of them and maybe a jump 2 or something thrilling also.

[BeastForever]

I agree, the experience of my first time riding SkyHawk at Cedar Point, it was like no other! Screamin Swings are now my favorite type of flat ride now.

[Cormaster]

Skyhawk was my last ride at Cedar Point, and i thought it was awesome! Basically like I said early, a Thrill seeking version of Viking Fury. I could really see that happening for KI in the near future. I couldn't it costing even near as much as a new B&M inverted coaster, and it wouldn't require as much land or space. They could have one ready for next season, and it would be a great addition to X-base. I'm thinking maybe for starters they add a screaming swing and expand X-base a bit, ie make another entrance, and put some restrooms back there. Maybe a place to get some food other than an ice cream stand. Than they can tear down Son of Beast in the future and use the land to expand X-base even future and connect it to Action Zone and put a B&M invert in there!

Probably won't happen, but I can always dream right?

[BeastForever]

Yeah that is highly unlikely but we can dream right? If we get something from B&M in the next 2 or 3 years I'm much rooting a Dive Machine than an Invert. Not that I'm an Invert hater. A Dive Machine just seems a lot more innovative than an Invert. And hey, Sheikra only cost a little more than half of what DB cost.

[Cormaster]

How about a floorless? I've never ridden one and unfortunately it would seem with Dominator's move to KD, there are no floorless coasters in the midwest.

[Cormaster]

Remember this topic?

http://www.KICentral.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22166&st=0

How about one of these? I mean I could really see that happening honestly. With Cedar Fair's financial situation I imagine the next big coaster is a couple years off. And after a couple years perhaps B&M will have the model perfected and ready to install a world class version of it at KI...

I like it honestly and I'd take it over an invert. IT almost seems to be combining both concepts of an Invert and a floorless, without the disadvantages of either one.

[BeastForever]

A floorless would also be legit. Just NOT a stand-up coaster. There not as fun as they sound. I remember when I was dying to ride Mantis (because it was a stand-up and at that time I've never ridden one) at Cedar Point. Then when I got off I was really dissapointed. Although, that's the only stand-up I've ridden so far and it might just be Mantis that's not that exciting.

[Cormaster]

Stand Up's kinda suck. We've been there done that anyway with King Cobra, which in hindsight wasn't that good either. It was a TOGO, not a B&M, but just like a B&M it was painful to ride.

I too was looking forward to Mantis at Cedar Point, remembering how much I liked Chang at Kentucky Kingdom, and I too was disappointed with it. Could it be Chang was only good because it was surrounded by crap coasters?

[BeastForever]

Also, another reason stand-ups suck is because you have to STAND UP, hence the name. Standing up sounds like it would be an amazing experience on a roller coaster but it's just not. And after the ride your legs are really sore. Before I rode Mantis, I was wanting KI to build a stand up but now I don't. Now I'd much, MUCH rather have them build a Dive Machine.

[Cormaster]

I agree. On paper it sounds like it would be a blast, but in reality its just not.

IT would help if every time I went on one they would let me adjust my height before they locked the harneses! Mantis was an inch off on my height thus I was crouching just slightly, making the ride even more painful.

[BeastForever]

I know right, it's really hard to adjust your seat to a comfortable position. And do all Standup coasters have a low capacity? because the Mantis line seemed to move EXTREMELY slow when i was there on 7/11/10 and 7/12/10.

[Guest Millennium]

nvm

[bkroz]

Stand-ups do have a low capacity... And consider that B&Ms are actually better at throughput than TOGOs because of their auto-adjusting seats, whereas on TOGO rides, it usually amounts to each seat needing to be done individually, with really odd restraints that are not intuitive and a very unique loading procedure. It takes very patient ride operators.

B&M stand-ups, too, are really stragely laid out. I don't know who decided that stand-ups in particular would have the most crazy, nonsensical, odd, twisted layouts one could concieve of, but they do. There's no logical pattern, no flow... It's just strange twists and banking in odd places with unusual inversions. What I always compare it to is when you build a coaster on RCT or another simulator, and you just can't seem to get it to connect back to the station the right way, so you add a curved piece or an S-track and then you need to use a corkscrew to get it over to the right three pieces and then you have to build a banked turn but in the wrong direction so that it can connect to .... etc ect. and you finish and you look back and you go "My God" because you have this twisted, awful looking mess.

So all the twists and inclined loops and strange corkscrews, added to the zero visibility, leave you smacking your head back and forth between the restraints. Meanwhile, all the blood is going to your legs, weighing you down and draining from your head...

It was certainly a trend coaster, and I'm glad the trend is over.

That being said, I find the TOGO stand ups much more enjoyable than B&Ms because of their simplicity. Sure, B&Ms intention was to take the simple stand-up coaster and make it more intense, and they certainly did that. But this may be one of those numerous cases in which bigger is not better. The simple layouts of the TOGO rides allow you to experience the important parts of the "stand-up" gimmick (going down a hill, through a loop, some bunny hops, a helix, etc) and save your legs and head from the extremely superfluous speed and twists.

[coaster_junky]

i guess i'm one of the few that loves mantis, well as long as the first drop trim isn't on.

whoever invented the first drop trim needs to be given a swirly.

[Cormaster]

Yeah King Cobra def. wasn't so bad. A loop, and a couple bunny hops and your done. A B&M is rough on the legs, but I will say a TOGO is rough on the...male reproductive parts if you catch my drift. The harnesses are def better on a B&M!

[HTCO]

Stand-ups hurt period. I don't think the legs were made to withstand 3 to 4+gs of force.

[Cormaster]

You know what else I'm realizing was a trend coaster and sucks nearly as bad? A flying coaster. I've never been on a B&M, but I can say honestly Firehawk sucks. It moves so slow you feel like your going to fall out, and my knees constantly being pulled by gravity. Also to top it off, the loading process is terrible and after 3 years at KI and no longer being the "new coaster" there's NO REASON IT SHOULD TAKE SO FRIGGEN LONG TO GET ON! Also it breaks down alot. Why? Probably because its a Vekoma!

Granted the Flying coaster never took off like the standup, and probably for good reason. I Can't believe an awesome Arrow mega looper at SFGA got torn down for a flying coaster! They already had Batman, why did they need a flying coaster? I say a good B&M invert is the "True" flying coaster!

Don't get me wrong my first ride on Firehawk I thought was awesome, but the more I ride it the more i realize its not worth the wait. Flight of Fear on the other hand, has long waits, but the ride at the end is worth it, much more so than Firehawk.

They should of gave us Dominator instead.

[HTCO]

You know what else I'm realizing was a trend coaster and sucks nearly as bad? A flying coaster. I've never been on a B&M, but I can say honestly Firehawk sucks. It moves so slow you feel like your going to fall out, and my knees constantly being pulled by gravity. Also to top it off, the loading process is terrible and after 3 years at KI and no longer being the "new coaster" there's NO REASON IT SHOULD TAKE SO FRIGGEN LONG TO GET ON! Also it breaks down alot. Why? Probably because its a Vekoma!

Like my avatar?

[Cormaster]

You know what else I'm realizing was a trend coaster and sucks nearly as bad? A flying coaster. I've never been on a B&M, but I can say honestly Firehawk sucks. It moves so slow you feel like your going to fall out, and my knees constantly being pulled by gravity. Also to top it off, the loading process is terrible and after 3 years at KI and no longer being the "new coaster" there's NO REASON IT SHOULD TAKE SO FRIGGEN LONG TO GET ON! Also it breaks down alot. Why? Probably because its a Vekoma!

Like my avatar?

LMAO I just noticed! Vekoma's just seem kinda cheap and crappy... Its like this. I used to collect transformer toys. If you want say a G1 Optimus Prime in mint condition you can shell out money and get the real thing. Or you can spend $20 and get a cheap knockoff that looks exactly the same, but the quality just isn't there.

Vekoma seems like they specialize in making "cheap knockoffs" of B&M's!

[The Interpreter]

... I Can't believe an awesome Arrow mega looper at SFGA got torn down for a flying coaster! They already had Batman, why did they need a flying coaster? I say a good B&M invert is the "True" flying coaster!...

The awesome Arrow mega looper at SFGA is being removed for Chang. The flying coaster went into what was parking lot.

And Chang was surrounded (?) by good and one great coasters. Thunder Run was one of the best wooden coasters in the country. Twisted Sisters, when new, was incredible...so much so that I visited that park 33 times that year and rode them nearly exclusively each time...

And you don't like Firehawk because it feels like you may fall out? How odd...that's one of many reasons I love it.

[Cormaster]

... I Can't believe an awesome Arrow mega looper at SFGA got torn down for a flying coaster! They already had Batman, why did they need a flying coaster? I say a good B&M invert is the "True" flying coaster!...

The awesome Arrow mega looper at SFGA is being removed for Chang. The flying coaster went into what was parking lot.

And Chang was surrounded (?) by good and one great coasters. Thunder Run was one of the best wooden coasters in the country. Twisted Sisters, when new, was incredible...so much so that I visited that park 33 times that year and rode them nearly exclusively each time...

And you don't like Firehawk because it feels like you may fall out? How odd...that's one of many reasons I love it.

SFGA = Six Flags Great America, not Six Flags Great Adventure

I was referring to "shockwave", which was torn down in 2002 to make room for Superman: Ultimate Flight, though yes Great Adventure has one too.

Honestly my main beef with Firehawk is it takes at least an hour to get on everytime I Ride it, even when the lines not bad, because the KI staff takes way too long to load people and I don't know why. If you watch them they'll literally wait till both trains are in the station, load them both, launch one, and then when the first one gets back to the station, they'll launch the second one. Its ridiculous. And the ride IMO is not worth the hour wait. I do think Firehawk moves too slow.

My first ride on it I was impressed but the more i ride it, the more I realize the coaster is not worth the wait. IF I can get right on it (one day I managed too, not sure how) its not too bad. But after 3 years of being at the park you shouldn't have to wait an hour to ride it everyday! I understand their are times where its going to busy at the park and the line will get long. But Firehawk will take an hour to ride on a day when everything's a walk-on, mostly due to the inefficient loading system.

[Guest Millennium]

You can't say flying coasters are bad unless you have ridden Manta.

[coaster_junky]

Vekoma seems like they specialize in making "cheap knockoffs" of B&M's!

vekoma's "cheap knockoffs" came first, two years before b&m opened up their first flying coaster, the first flying dutchman model opened at california's great america, it was a prototype.