OFFICIAL! Son of Beast Will NOT Operate in 2010

[corn4ahead]

But do you honestly think a firm like GG couldn't fix SoB....Im sure they could. They would practically make it a new ride. So it would be a "new" attraction for the next season. 10 million for a new coaster isnt too bad of an investment so long as the ride is epic. If they could make SoB as good as i have heard Voyage is then I would say the investment was well worth it. I dont think you can scrap a ride like SoB. I mean it is a megastructure. How can you just throw that away???

[Browntggrr]

^How can you throw it away? Return on investment. SoB's current price tag is somewhere around $30 million. Another $10 million would out it in the catagory of one of the World's most expensive coasters. I can't see how SoB is worth it.

Could GG fix it? Putting aside if they would take the SoB project on-I really don't know. My question is, what could they do that has not been already done?

[SonofBeast07]

they could do a lot

[bkroz]

Touche!

GYK, who just had to.

[Browntggrr]

*shakes head*

Dang! If I would only have thought of that!

[shark6495]

as the discussion goes on in here with some inform and some not informed people I would venture a guess that these same discussions have happened behind closed doors with some informed and some not informed company people. With all that being said.... The rattler video... my goodness did yall see how much movement the ride structure had? and on to SoB.....

As enthusiasts its easy to say "throw money at it and it will fix it." But as I said in the original SoB thread, Son of Beast is this generation's Bat. A ride that experienced some irrepairable flaws, that was liked and hated, and was around for a short time period. Heck even 10 years is a long time for some rides. I think we forget how luck we are in South Western Ohio. Most of our rides have not been removed from out home park. New Rides come in and the old rides (most) have stayed. Some of the best ones are from the parks original 10 years. In other parks rides are removed and replaced somewhat regularly. So with that perspective SoB was just a short timer in KI. Out like King Kobra and The Bat. Do I wish it would stay? Only if they could fix it, but seriously I doubt we'll see much work done to it.

[Diamondback96]

I think the only solution for SoB is to rebuild the ride from the ground up. It would cost a lot more money than just tearing it down, but it would draw in the people in Kentucky.

[bkroz]

... Kentucky?

And to be fair, we don't know how much a rebuild or a demolition would be. Consider that it's the world's largest wooden structure... Within feet of two other rides... Flammable (therefore, no explosives for deconstruction)... Chemically treated (non-reusable or burnable)... And forget not that once those 2.5 million board feet of wood are on the ground, they've got to go somewhere... Where? How?

That's not free. It's not even cheap.

I'm confident that Cedar Fair, Kings Island, and anyone else involved will carefully examine all options from financial and logical standpoints and make a good choice. But as has been stated before, it's useless to consider what the ride as cost "so far." That money is gone. If the ride is $8 million to demolish and $10 million to build, then the question is between $8 million and $10 million. What the ride as already cost is not a factor - that's something learned in most any business class. For all logical intents and purposes, that money is gone and can not come back. Period.

Any decisions made in the future should be separate from it. Will they be? Probably not.

[corn4ahead]

you guys have great points. If they do tear it down, i would like a complete rebuild that features many of SoB's elements. Just better. I would still want the tallest and fastest woody in the world.... Son of Beast's Revenge?

[bkroz]

I believe (see, "my opinion is") that the reason the ride is still closed is because many of Son of Beast's elements do not work. The ride was found to be structurally safe. However, it's not open. That means that the quality of the ride is in question. I personally enjoy the ride, and know more people who do than people who don't. However, there's no denying that the rose-bowl is an area that needs work.

The lack of a loop has gotten many people down - I don't know that that could be rectified, but for those who experienced the loop and those who didn't, the current track that replaced the loop is easily read as a "something was supposed to go here." It's dead. It feels as though it's supposed to be the climax of something, and it's not. That disrupts the pacing of the entire second half of the ride, too. What we have today is essentially the remnant of a "good idea." I'm sure on paper, the ride looked incredible. In photos, it's majestic and intimidating. In person, I don't think it ever played out the way anyone anticipated. The layout is so severely lacking in interest. It's essentially one big hill, four helices, one little hill, breaks. Again, I really like the ride, but there could be so much more to it than slamming on your side the whole time.

I don't know what to make of the ride's history - Paramount & RCCA fighting over this and that and egging eachother on to get bigger and faster and better and taller and looping. Who knows. What I know is this - if Son of Beast can be economically re-designed into something more notable (see, out-and-back-coaster) or at least stabilized via the hybridization used for Texas Giant, it may work! If not, honestly the best thing I can imagine is its removal and replacement in a number of years with an Intamin pre-fab wooden coaster. It would be epic. And (just throwing this out there) if anyone would tackle the world's first successful wooden loop, it would be Intamin. The question is, would Kings Island for it? Son of Beast: Reborn. And you can always use that incredible marketing campaign after the ride's 2000 hiccup: "Son of Beast was a real brat. But now, he's on his best behavior."

Is it possible? Sure. Likely? I don't think so... But we needn't even mention that the #2, #3, and #4 tallest, fastest wooden roller coasters on Earth are Intamin pre-fabs, do we?

[corn4ahead]

im liking that reborn idea. I think it can be done. You are 100% right. The layout is such a bore. I mean, that last little hill could be ejector air if it had been designed correctly. The rose bowl could create some serious lats/ positive gs. GREAT idea, poor execution...

[Browntggrr]

If SoB is taken down, and a new ride is built in it's place, I highly doubt the "Beast" name will be used.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

I'm confident that Cedar Fair, Kings Island, and anyone else involved will carefully examine all options from financial and logical standpoints and make a good choice. But as has been stated before, it's useless to consider what the ride as cost "so far." That money is gone. If the ride is $8 million to demolish and $10 million to build, then the question is between $8 million and $10 million. What the ride as already cost is not a factor - that's something learned in most any business class. For all logical intents and purposes, that money is gone and can not come back. Period.

Any decisions made in the future should be separate from it. Will they be? Probably not.

That is true, those costs are sunk costs.

Is it possible? Sure. Likely? I don't think so... But we needn't even mention that the #2, #3, and #4 tallest, fastest wooden roller coasters on Earth are Intamin pre-fabs, do we?

But the #1 wooden coaster is a Gravity Group. Also Voyage is the #3 fastest right now so no we dont need to mention that, since it is untrue

[Browntggrr]

I'm confident that Cedar Fair, Kings Island, and anyone else involved will carefully examine all options from financial and logical standpoints and make a good choice. But as has been stated before, it's useless to consider what the ride as cost "so far." That money is gone. If the ride is $8 million to demolish and $10 million to build, then the question is between $8 million and $10 million. What the ride as already cost is not a factor - that's something learned in most any business class. For all logical intents and purposes, that money is gone and can not come back. Period.

Any decisions made in the future should be separate from it. Will they be? Probably not.

That is true, those costs are sunk costs.

While the total costs for SoB are gone, it is still a factor. Banks and insurance companies certainly care how much has been spent, and Greg Scheid cares as well, or he would not have mentioned the $30 million already spent.

http://www.bizjournals.com/cincinnati/blog/2010/03/kings_island_hopeful_new_owner_or_not.html

[corn4ahead]

Woul it cost more to insure a ride like SoB givin its history?

[Outdoor Man]

the insurance question is the more accurate consideration. Once an attraction has claims filed against it any insurance carrier of the park will begin talking "exclusions." lI would think that for SOB to ever operate again they would need to have some VERY significant alterations to the track layout. I honestly cannot see that happening; they may open it again- but either way I don't see it existing more than a few years. One more loss claim and it would be gone so fast that SOB fans would get whiplash (oh wait, that happens anyway).

My guess is that as soon as CF finds a suitable replacement for the huge and noticeable scar that its removal would leave, they'll proceed with the next steps. And as for ANYTHING record-breaking coming to KI- you can write that off as long as Cedar Fair is the owner. KI will continue to get state of the art attractions as economics allow- but anything record breaking will go to the flagship park, Cedar Point. KI enjoyed flagship status for 35 years; it is now a "measured success" step-child.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

^ is that why CF put I305 in Kings Dominion? I mean it is only faster than their giga. So I guess the other parks will have to settle for smaller slower rides.

[SeasonPass4Life]

I'm amazed the people can't read beyond the first sentence of a post on this thread. Of course the bonfire thing was a joke, what I SAID in my post was that it's my thought that if it's not gonna operate, then it should go and let's get somehthing that does operate. I shudder to think what the insurance would cost to cover the ride if it was open, given the number of claims that are against it. I can't begin to imagine what the cost to tear it down, repair or rebuild it would be. It's just a shame to have it standing there not running.

[shark6495]

^ is that why CF put I305 in Kings Dominion? I mean it is only faster than their giga. So I guess the other parks will have to settle for smaller slower rides.

to be fair though KD is not in the state of Ohio. If Ceder Fair had to say, sell some or all of the paramount parks, why would they want to make one of their competing parks better than the flag ship park. Thats only saying they would sell KI. Who knows CF could just slowly dismantle the park over time, there is no way of knowing their business plan, unless you are the main guy who owns them. But if they are trying to recoup 1.6 billion, and selling parks is an option do not look to see SoB remodeled or a big world record coaster put in its place.

The problem, one of many, when one company owns a bunch of parks, is that there may be less competition. With KI and CP being so close, one park would have to try and out do the other one. If they are owned by the same company then its less about numbers at the one park but numbers for the company as a whole. For example SoB and Millenium Force both opened in 2000. Why? Well both parks wanted new guests to come to their park and not the other. Raptor in 94, Flight of Fear in 96.....

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Yes Competition is good, but there is very little comparison in CP and KI. Whether CF owns both or not people will attend both parks because they are different. KI is and has always been about bringing in families. CP wants to bring in thrill riders. Each park has a different target audience.

[bkroz]

KI is and has always been about bringing in families. CP wants to bring in thrill riders. Each park has a different target audience.

Perhaps during the years that Cedar Point gets Shoot the Rapids and Kings Island gets Planet Snoopy... But in the year that Cedar Point got Planet Snoopy and Kings Island got Firehawk? Or when Cedar Point gets a new interactive water fountain and Kings Island gets Diamondback?

Recall that, for seven years, Kings Island saw a larger expansion than Cedar Point had even dreamed of - Flight of Fear, Drop Zone, FACE/OFF, Son of Beast, Delirium, Tomb Raider: The Ride, Scooby Doo & The Haunted Castle, Nickelodeon Universe, and The Italian Job... In seven years.

Has there ever been a time when Cedar Point added six record-breaking thrill rides in six years, and also updated kids areas & installed new family dark rides? At the very least, we were on par with Cedar Point in the thrill ride category those years. For quite a while, people looked at Cedar Point and said, "Sure it has lots of roller coasters, but what about everything else?" And that "everything else" was here at Kings Island. One might say that two of the three Giant Frisbees in the world are in Ohio because Cedar Point knew that Kings Island was creaming them in the flats category and needed to compete. Of course, now Cedar Point also has Skyhawk, and Kings Island is sans-Flying Eagle. And one of our amazing flats became The Crypt. So for all intents and purposes, we're tied with Cedar Point in the flats department (a dark day indeed - flats is where we used to shine).

I'm not disagreeing that Cedar Point focuses on thrills and oftentimes Kings Island focuses on families... But what about the years when the opposite is true?

[GrandsonofBeast]

KI is and has always been about bringing in families. CP wants to bring in thrill riders. Each park has a different target audience.

Recall that, for seven years, Kings Island saw a larger expansion than Cedar Point had even dreamed of - Flight of Fear, Drop Zone, FACE/OFF, Son of Beast, Delirium, Tomb Raider: The Ride, Scooby Doo & The Haunted Castle, Nickelodeon Universe, and The Italian Job... In seven years.

I don't know, I think from 2000-2007 Cedar Point makes a good run at that...Millennium Force, Wicked Twister, Top Thrill Dragster, MaXair, SkyHawk, and Maverick.

In fact, I would go so far as to say, that CP wins this arguement hands down (not only ever "dreamed of") when comparing thrill rides/coasters over a 7 year period.

[hausty1983]

I honestly would like to know how the rides are determined on which park gets what I never understood that and just was curious how it works for the CF parks? If I could afford to I would go to all the CF parks and checkout the new rides when they open. Its sad that the economy now is so bad you can barely go to a lot of places without spending a lot! We still have KI so i'm happy with just what we have in our area and really enjoy what rides we have. Why is it that people on here are complaining on this park had that many rides in 6 years so what! If that is where the company wants the rides to go then get over it because thats how it works!!!!

[Hank]

By Jove, I think I've got it! Relocate SOB to Cedar Point and when it's being rebuilt, fix the problem areas. (just kidding of course, but you just never know....)

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

Thank you grandson, those seven years CP put in rides as well. How many of those ride are targeted for families 0.

For KI 2 of those additions are family attractions.

Then look at the comparisons

Max Air vs Delirum. Max Air wins. That is all that can be compared.

[GrandsonofBeast]

I'm not saying CP focused on Family Rides, nor do I want them to. But the poster was suggesting that Kings Island was able to keep pace with CPs thrill rides while adding family rides. A standing ovation for adding a few family rides, but lets not start pretending Kings Island was keeping up on a thrill level.

And your right, there is no comparison in the example I gave, that is my point.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

This is basic marketing. Kings Island markets towards families, while Cedar Point markets towards thrill riders. Which is why Kings Island is the best kids area 9 straight years and Cedar Point the best amusement park 12 straight years

[GrandsonofBeast]

^ again, not my point. Be the king of the kids areas all you want, my arguement was in response to this statement.

KI is and has always been about bringing in families. CP wants to bring in thrill riders. Each park has a different target audience.

At the very least, we were on par with Cedar Point in the thrill ride category those years.

[ahank]

This is basic marketing. Kings Island markets towards families, while Cedar Point markets towards thrill riders. Which is why Kings Island is the best kids area 9 straight years and Cedar Point the best amusement park 12 straight years

I strongly disagree. Just because Cedar Point markets to thrill riders more does NOT automatically make it the best amusement park for 12 straight years.

[Colonel_SoB_fan]

It certainty helps when you are the only amusement park with 4 coasters over 200 feet tall, and most coasters in any park. Also throw in an amazing night show with lasers, good quality food, some great flats and that will get you the award. I never said that was the only reason they got that award 12 straight awards