coaster_junky Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 I wasn`t referring to religion. I was wondering why the state of Kentucky has balked at helping out Mr. Hart and Kentucky Kingdom, but is willing to give tax breaks to this park, which obviously has a much narrower target market than Kentucky Kingdom. i look at it this way, the creation museum has done very well so far, why wouldn't something that has forked from it be any different? plus, kentucky kingdom has failed multiple times, it's land locked, and the fair board has crazy beliefs for it (the fifty year lease for example). if you have money off to the side, would you give it to someone who has the potential to do good with it and flourish, or give it to someone who is trying to revive something that has failed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkroz Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 i look at it this way, the creation museum has done very well so far, why wouldn't something that has forked from it be any different? Because a museum that caters to fundamental Christians deals with an entirely different crowd than an amusement park of any theme. As for the 50 year lease with Kentucky Kingdom, to my knowledge that sort of thing is not uncommon in the industry. Amusement parks are long-term things, not traveling fairs, so if the park owner can get a tax cut / incentivized program in place by agreeing to stay long term, then why not? Kings Island signed what, a forty year deal with Hannah Barbera? Because why not? Amusement parks last a very long time in most cases, so if they secured the rights for cheap by buying "in bulk," then it's better for everyone involved, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outdoor Man Posted December 21, 2010 Share Posted December 21, 2010 why does it matter who it caters to? If John and Joe Doe want to pay $15 admission (or whatever) to get into said park- and others just like them- it's a cash flowing venture; everybody wins. I think maybe I'm missing the side of the coin you're speaking from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Just a quick thought: A religious organization is usually a "not for profit" organization, meaning there are no taxes to give a break on. This organization is a "for profit", meaning they pay taxes as a private business. I for one already give money and services to an organization that will nurture my family and myself in a spiritual way. That organization in turn takes that money and services and helps others. I will not pay some one who is "for profit" to nurture my family and myself in a spiritual way, but that is just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 In many states, nonprofit organizations pay taxes on business ventures not directly related to the purpose of their non-profit entity. A church, for instance, would pay taxes on income and property related to a day care center or a restaurant, but not on the sanctuary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monroe Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Yes that is so, but it just seems to me that they are promoting one thing, and will try to deliver another, but that is a debate that does not belong on these here forums. Lets just hope they don't go all fanatic on us and use there forum as a platform of such topic that is not to be debated on here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted December 22, 2010 Share Posted December 22, 2010 Where I have an issue, is that the state of Kentucky is willing to give tax incentives to this initiative, while at the same time, they aren`t willing to give tax incentives to Mr. Hart and Kentucky Kingdom. What is the difference between the two? I think you are missing the VERY BIG difference between the two: The Ark Park is planning to use private investment financing ($150 Million) to build their park. If they build it, Kentucky has an incentive program where they could recover up to 25% of the investment. The incentive would typically come as a reduction in taxes over a period of time ($1.9 Million per year for 20 years for example). Kentucky Kingdom is asking for public government financing ($50 Million) to reopen the park. Providing ALL the funding up front is very different than providing a break on future payments to the state. I believe that if Kentucky Kingdom had $50 Million of private financing to reopen the park, they would also be eligible to recover up to 25% of the investment via this incentive program. Incentive programs are fairly typical methods used by state or local governments to attract businesses to their location. The idea behind them is that providing an incentive for private investment (their is often a jobs requirement attached) will bring in more money than it costs. In the Ark Park example above, the government is stating that they expect the state to benefit by more than $1.9 Million per year by having the Ark Park in Kentucky (property taxes, payroll taxes, other investment and growth in the region, tourist traffic spending, etc...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 24, 2010 Share Posted December 24, 2010 A rather balanced account of where things are: http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/ky_creationist_theme_park_gets_preliminary_approva.php?ref=fpblg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 Editorial from the Courier-Journal: ...Meanwhile, the Governor and his aides insist that a state role in a park with a religious theme passes constitutional muster, and that there will be no religious discrimination in hiring employees at the park. In other words, if a gay Muslim with an advanced degree in evolutionary biology wants a top job at the park, he'll be welcomed by the creationists with open arms. Right? Hello? http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20101229/OPINION01/312290053 (more there, deserves a full reading, in my opinion) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 While I think the Governor made a big political mistake with his role in announcing this park, I am left with a few questions: - Are the people who oppose the tax incentives against them for any investment in Kentucky or just this investment? - If this park didn't have a religious theme and was being developed by someone other than the Creation Museum folks, would people be more likely to support road improvements, etc? I guess, while I disagree with the Answers in Genesis viewpoint personally, I see freedom of religion as something that gives them the right to believe and act upon their beliefs in this country in a fashion equal to anyone else (including obtaining tax breaks for providing investment like any other enterprise would). In any case, the developers now want the Transportation Cabinet to upgrade an Interstate 75 interchange in Grant County to accommodate the projected influx of visitors. There's no estimate yet of the price tag of the proposed improvements, but road construction to ease access to the Kentucky Speedway in Gallatin County cost the state about $45 million ... In addition, sooner or later someone is likely to want help building hotels, restaurants and service stations for park visitors. There are plenty of facilities closer to Cincinnati and Lexington, of course, but relatively little development near the 800 rural acres where the park is planned. This paragraph reminds me of protests last winter when Mason discussed adding an admissions tax to help pay for freeway interchange upgrades and other services. At the time, the argument was that Kings Island had spurred much development in Mason because of it being here and was a net benefit to the community even without the admissions tax. I'm also willing to bet (I don't know) that someone other than Kings Island paid for Interstate 71 interchange upgrades in rural Warren County when the park was first built. Is it possible that the Ark Park could do this for Grant County in the future? If it does become successful, the hotels, restaurants, and service stations will come - and likely from private investment as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 29, 2010 Share Posted December 29, 2010 It should also be noted the Courier-Journal is a Louisville newspaper, and thus may not be totally unbiased when it comes to state funding of theme parks...or of competing theme parks... Terp, known sometimes for being suspicious, and often rightly so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 i look at it this way, the creation museum has done very well so far, why wouldn't something that has forked from it be any different? Because a museum that caters to fundamental Christians deals with an entirely different crowd than an amusement park of any theme. Oh really? You're promoting your assumptions with a lot of conviction. Believe it or not, these people do know what they're doing. Since evolution is brought up in some aspect in most natural history museums, wouldn't it be more logical to assume that a museum dealing with Creationism wouldn't draw a crowd? Before it opened, I was under the understanding that most fundamentalists reject some aspects of widely accepted science in favor of Biblical texts, therefore a museum wouldn't necessarily jive with their beliefs. In other words, a museum that is attempting to prove Creationism wouldn't be necessary (or appealing) since the Bible said what happened. Of course, I was wrong. I work in the closest major city to the museum and I can tell you that people come from all over the United States to visit. I've encountered people who have driven from places like Kansas, California, Arizona and some parts of Canada for that. If people are willing to drive for hours (or in some cases, days) on end to see the museum, they'll certainly hop on the expressway for another 30 minutes to go to this theme park. If this were a cheap Bible-themed theme park with "Jesus's Drop Tower" and a "Noah's Ark Scrambler" then I might agree with you, but if you look at the types of attractions they're offering it really seems more in line with the museum itself than with a theme park. It's almost like a hands-on version of the museum. This thing is clearly designed to cater towards the crowds that the museum draws rather than the crowds that Kings Island would draw, for example. By the way, if this thing goes through I'm opening up a Hedonistic resort right next door called "Hell." You're all invited. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 And if you do open such a place, do you conceive of an instance when Mr. Dick Kinzel will go to Hell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoddaH1994 Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 And if you do open such a place, do you conceive of an instance when Mr. Dick Kinzel will go to Hell? Excellent Q. He'll have his own room there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 30, 2010 Share Posted December 30, 2010 Be sure to save a place for his good golfing buddy, the old duffer himself, the milkie one... Duffield E. (Duff) Milkie, 44 - Duff Milkie was appointed as Corporate Vice President-General Counsel in February 2008. Prior to that he was a partner in the law firm of Wickens, Herzer, Panza, Cook & Batista from 1998 through 2008. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted December 31, 2010 Share Posted December 31, 2010 http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40805405/ns/us_news-life/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Toledo Blade Editorial: http://toledoblade.com/article/20110103/OPINION02/101020349/-1/OPINION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 To Flaunt Green Design Elements: http://www.worldinteriordesignnetwork.com/news/ark_encounter_in_us_to_flaunt_green_design_elements_110106/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Tennessee, Kentucky Have Different Approaches To Biblical Parks: http://www.kentucky....erent.html#more An excellent article that deserves a full reading.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 So, they are hiding who the investors are, hiding the business plan, and hiding the full info of their "study" into the feasibility of the project. We have as much info on the park succeeding as we do that Dinosaurs hung out with cavemen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 And in this, an election year in Kentucky, the Governor supports this park...but has been strangely silent about Louisville's Kentucky Kingdom...the latter of which would require legislative (and gubernatorial) approval for the state backed financing (as opposed to the Ark Park's tax incentives under existing legislation). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Meanwhile our school systems are bracing for a $50 million cut in funding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
74Gibson Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 ^ So we can improve education David, being very sarcastic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Experts scoff at 1.6 million visitors a year: Projections that 1.6 million people a year would visit Ark Encounter - the proposed Biblical theme park in Grant County to be financed in part with Kentucky tax incentives - are wildly optimistic, according to a half-dozen theme-park experts. The authorities include a consultant who helped start Kings Island and a former executive at Disney.... http://news.cincinna...visit-Ark-park- There is a lot of interesting data here for students of amusement parks, amusement history, legislative process and human nature. Highly recommended for a full reading. (and perhaps others would like to extract quotes to appear here, as well) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Summers also said Ark Encounter will not be marketed as an amusement park but instead, as its Web site puts it, an "immersive, historically themed experience," with music, food and "edutainment," entertainment designed to educate as well as amuse. I'm confused. Is it gonna be an amusement park with rides, coasters, etc or just an extension of the creation museum with an Ark replica? If so I doubt it will see anywhere near 1.6 million visitors a year since the museum itself doesn't even see 1/3 that amount. The people wanting to build this are still hiding the full extent of their "study". Sorry but my belief is you only hide something like that when it doesn't completely back up your statements. The report most likely contains various potential outcomes/attendance numbers and they are just using the most promising one. Very shady if you ask me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sccard01 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Does anyone realize that just about every job from this park, and every hotel room will go to the state of ohio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Does anyone realize that just about every job from this park, and every hotel room will go to the state of ohio? The original topic title here was New Theme Park In Cincinnati! And yet...the Cincinnati international airport is in Kentucky, and many fliers never realize that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dieseltech20 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Kentucky Truck Sales is a Freight Liner truck dealer......in Indiana. Peterbilt of Louisville? That is in Indiana as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Interpreter Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 So, for that matter, are most operations of Louisville Slugger...in Indiana. Have been for years. Then there's KFC once officially known as (and sometimes still as) Kentucky Fried Chicken....tee hee...still based in Louisville, but a part of YUM... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIfan1980 Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Does anyone realize that just about every job from this park, and every hotel room will go to the state of ohio? I'm confused as to why you think this? I can't see that many people commuting that far to work. There are also many hotels in Kentucky much closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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