Fast Lane

[markr]

I agree that the Fast Lane is here to stay and I accept that. The issue however is how to balance everything so that everyone has a positive guest experience. If KI intends to execute the Fast Lane program the way they executed it at Holloween Haunt, I feel that it will be a failure. To allow the Fast Lane program to double the wait of a great capacity ride like DB ( I timed it one Satuday night-the wait from Rivertown Junction increased from a normal 50 minute wait to 1 hour 55 minute) to me is absolute madness. If management intends to thumb its nose at capacity ( maybe that is not what was intended but that is the impression I got) then I feel that Fast Lane may have the opposite effect of making more money, ie, driving away people who cannot afford the Fast Lane but refuse to wait double the amount of time that the normal wait for a ride would be. I cringe to think what will happen at Cedar Point if the Fast Lane program is implemented in such a way without caring about capacity.

[markr]

Perhaps this will put together what I was trying to express above. In customer service the most important issue is how you value your customer. Yes, the more you pay, the more perks you have but all customers deserve to be valued in the same way.

[Browntggrr]

Pass holders get certain perks at some KI shops, restaurants, etc., why not on FL?

FL is not marketed for Season Pass holders, but for guests that are new to the park or can only visit once/ year. Pass holders have ERT & visit the park numerous times during the operating season.

HH was a terrible time to offer FL as a "trial run" due to the amount of people the event brings in a limited amount of time. It should not be used as a true measuring stick of how the "perk" will operate.

[MarketingExpress]

I think the problem with additional wait time in the regular line comes down to training of the ride staff on how to handle the FL system. There is no reason that on any ride much less Firehawk that an entire train should be filled with only FL riders, I'd say a car maybe 2 if the line is very long. What the park needs to convey to the rides associates is that it's ok for FL holders to wait too. They will still get on quicker than the regular line, but they should not automatically be a priority.

On my last visit to Disney a number of year ago we used the FastPass system quite frequently and every ride that we used the pass for we still had to wait in a line to get on. We were not given priority over those waiting in the regular line.

If they can manage it so the FL people still have to wait, even just a little bit, I think it will come across as a more fair system.

[RD Reynolds]

Weren't most HH nights super crowded already? Are we really comparing apples to apples here for wait times and how FL affects them?

[Jr for Birdy]

We stay at hotel breakers for a weekend every year in the fall,with Fast Lane at CP now were not going,no way.They better put bathrooms in the regular lines!!!! I guess there wont be a choice to purchase in the future but there not getting my money this year. I would develop a system where they raise admission and you get a card with purchase that scans for EACH PERSON ONE SINGLE RIDE USING FASTLANE PER ATTRACTION. THAT WOULD GET MY ATTENTION! I would add a trip to CP every year with this deal!

[LongliveKingsCobra]

You aren't going to CP because of Fast Lane? You might as well just sit in your house and contemplate ALL of the unfair things in life. .

[Browntggrr]

Not going to a park because of a "Fast Lane" type perk will certainly limit the parks to enjoy.

[LongliveKingsCobra]

very true, better not go to Disney, Universial, Six Flags, Dollywood, CP, KI, goodness how many others?

[Jr for Birdy]

Have you been to CP in the fall lately,it was insane last year! Its not cheap to stay there for a weekend and theres no way i would go without fastlane and im not gonna purchase under this system. We wont stay home we will just hang out at KI this year, over all i hope they make money to add new features but not worth my money to me! Read my system above and they would make some money(atleast from me)

[Jr for Birdy]

I tell you another thing,if gold pass let you park at other parks for free i probably would stop in Carowinds for a day on my way south next weekend?? I still might but its little things that make or break making money.CP has just gotten way to crowded last few years in the fall and we only got on 4 rides one day,adding FL just makes it not worth it to me,maybe a weekday this summer instead.

[Browntggrr]

Have you been to CP in the fall lately,it was insane last year! Its not cheap to stay there for a weekend and theres no way i would go without fastlane and im not gonna purchase under this system. We wont stay home we will just hang out at KI this year, over all i hope they make money to add new features but not worth my money to me! Read my system above and they would make some money(atleast from me)

Please correct me if I am incorrect:

- you have a CF season pass

- CP is busy on the weekends

- you went in the fall, "fall season" is during HW, which is known to always be busy

- staying there is not cheap

- you will not go to CP now because of FL, but will go to KI, which also has FL

Forgot one-

- CP did not have 2012 FL offered in 2011

[Jr for Birdy]

Yes, KI gold passes are paid for and we can go whenever we can during the week,etc. A weekend at CP without a fastlane pass just seems like a waist knowing last years 2 hour waits will be much longer now! Yes,this will make it a nightmare without a pass! I get all the other parks have this in some form or another but these are my home parks and i dont like the system. Kinda like i dont like the BCS SYTEM but ya gotta live with it until people wake up!

[LongliveKingsCobra]

Weren't you the one who first said you've driven endless miles to ride just a few rides and you'd do it again without he Fast Lane?

[Jr for Birdy]

YES, and CP is not what i consider far and ive been there done that so with this slowing my ride count No Thanks

[Jr for Birdy]

Neither side is gonna win this battle,we just gotta agree to disagree,but dont cry when Fastlane becomes your only ticket to ride any rides and admission is just to get inside the park,cause thats where its headed under this system

[Browntggrr]

Yes, KI gold passes are paid for and we can go whenever we can during the week,etc. A weekend at CP without a fastlane pass just seems like a waist knowing last years 2 hour waits will be much longer now! Yes,this will make it a nightmare without a pass! I get all the other parks have this in some form or another but these are my home parks and i dont like the system. Kinda like i dont like the BCS SYTEM but ya gotta live with it until people wake up!

Since there was no FL in 2011, and there is no way to guage how FL will operate given CP or KI is not yet open, you have chosen to not go to CP because you are unhappy with the crowds HW brings in.

Or are you just ASSUMING FL will increase your wait time?

[KIfan73]

Neither side is gonna win this battle,we just gotta agree to disagree,but dont cry when Fastlane becomes your only ticket to ride any rides and admission is just to get inside the park,cause thats where its headed under this system

I am actually kind of shocked that Cedar Fair didn't (or didn't try to) conclude that a large enough percentage of non-Fast Lane guests (enough to hurt their business, anyway) may share a perception similar to yours…

[Browntggrr]

I am actually kind of shocked that Cedar Fair didn't (or didn't try to) conclude that a large enough percentage of non-Fast Lane guests (enough to hurt their business, anyway) may share a perception similar to yours…

This perception is exactly why it has been announced that only a limited amount of passes will be sold/ day.

Believing that announcement is another can of worms.

[jcgoble3]

To allow the Fast Lane program to double the wait of a great capacity ride like DB ( I timed it one Satuday night-the wait from Rivertown Junction increased from a normal 50 minute wait to 1 hour 55 minute) to me is absolute madness.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. You may be comparing apples and oranges there, and here's why: Those guests in the FL would, without FL, all be in the regular line, making the regular line longer. It might be that the wait time in a given situation is the same as it would be without FL, only that the the line is physically shorter (because guests are split between two lines instead of all being in one line) and thus misleading you as to what the wait time without FL would be. Does that make sense?

[gad198]

The total ride capacity of all rides using the Fast Lane system is a fixed number daily. The rides are only going to give "X" number of rides on a daily basis no matter who the riders are. Fast Lane isn't adding capacity, it's merely reallocating the available capacity.

Equation with no Fast Lane: total rides given = number of riders in standby line

Equation with Fast Lane: total rides given = number of riders in standby line + number of Fast Lane rides given

Those people with Fast Lane access aren't in the regular line anymore, so there's a decrease in the amount of people in the standby line. Those with Fast Lane access will ride, however, so there's no change in the total rides given. The thing that we know for a fact is that the number of Fast Lane rides given is a variable number; some people may decide to ride less but most will decide to ride more. On days with light crowds that effect will be minimized as the shorter wait times will allow everyone a chance to ride more. On busier days the effect will be magnified as only the Fast Lane users will have the opportunity to ride more than the people in standby lines.

Let's assume you have a total capacity of 10,000 rides at any given park with Fast Lane access available. The equation may look something like this:

10,000 total rides = 9,000 total standby rides + 1,000 Fast Lane rides

The Fast Lane ride numbers are variable depending on how much they want to ride. Let's assume you have the following equation instead:

10,000 total rides = 8,000 standby rides + 2,000 Fast Lane rides

The Fast Lane users are taking 1,000 additional rides that aren't be available to those in the standby line. The ride capacity hasn't increased by 1,000 rides because that by definition is a fixed number. You can't create something out of nothing so some other variable has to change. The takeaway here is this...for every additional Fast Lane ride that's taken beyond what those in the standby line are capable of (i.e., if a Fast Lane user gets 2 rides in a fixed amount of time and another can only get 1 in the standby line, that's 1 additional ride), the amount of time for those waiting in the standby line must increase. This is an important distinction; Fast Lane users ONLY affect the amount of time those waiting in the standby line if they get more (or less) rides than they would have been capable of getting in the standby line. More Fast Lane users on any given day in and of itself may not lead to longer wait times. Only when Fast Lane users ride more than is capable by those in standby lines will you see an increase in wait times.

It was brought out in an earlier post that Kings Island said that standby ride line times are about the same both pre- and post-Fast Lane implementation. What they're essentially saying is that those with Fast Lane access are riding about the same amount of rides as they would have anyway prior to Fast Lane being brought in. Surely that statement leaves a lot to interpretation and without actual numbers it's hard to make a fair assessment of that statement.

[TromaKing]

To allow the Fast Lane program to double the wait of a great capacity ride like DB ( I timed it one Satuday night-the wait from Rivertown Junction increased from a normal 50 minute wait to 1 hour 55 minute) to me is absolute madness.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. You may be comparing apples and oranges there, and here's why: Those guests in the FL would, without FL, all be in the regular line, making the regular line longer. It might be that the wait time in a given situation is the same as it would be without FL, only that the the line is physically shorter (because guests are split between two lines instead of all being in one line) and thus misleading you as to what the wait time without FL would be. Does that make sense?

This would only account for people in the Fast Lane pre getting in line. Wait times will be increased due to people getting in line after someone get in line. I'm not against the Fast Lane pass in any way but I do not agree that the wait times are not affected.

[prozyan]

The pertinent question isn't whether wait times are increased, but rather whether wait times are significantly increased. I don't think this has ever been shown to be the case outside of the special case of HH.

[jcgoble3]

To allow the Fast Lane program to double the wait of a great capacity ride like DB ( I timed it one Satuday night-the wait from Rivertown Junction increased from a normal 50 minute wait to 1 hour 55 minute) to me is absolute madness.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. You may be comparing apples and oranges there, and here's why: Those guests in the FL would, without FL, all be in the regular line, making the regular line longer. It might be that the wait time in a given situation is the same as it would be without FL, only that the the line is physically shorter (because guests are split between two lines instead of all being in one line) and thus misleading you as to what the wait time without FL would be. Does that make sense?

This would only account for people in the Fast Lane pre getting in line. Wait times will be increased due to people getting in line after someone get in line. I'm not against the Fast Lane pass in any way but I do not agree that the wait times are not affected.

But while it does not account for people who pass you in the FL after you're in line, think about people who used FL and rode before you got in line but who would have otherwise, without FL, still been in line ahead of you when you got in line. At first glance, those people, taken alone, should shorten your wait compared to no FL because they're no longer in line. Those people will likely be similar in number to the people who get in the FL after you enter the standby line and who, taken alone, lengthen your wait, and I would guess that those two factors cancel each other out nicely, leaving my previous explanation still valid.

[TromaKing]

To allow the Fast Lane program to double the wait of a great capacity ride like DB ( I timed it one Satuday night-the wait from Rivertown Junction increased from a normal 50 minute wait to 1 hour 55 minute) to me is absolute madness.

Let me play devil's advocate here for a minute. You may be comparing apples and oranges there, and here's why: Those guests in the FL would, without FL, all be in the regular line, making the regular line longer. It might be that the wait time in a given situation is the same as it would be without FL, only that the the line is physically shorter (because guests are split between two lines instead of all being in one line) and thus misleading you as to what the wait time without FL would be. Does that make sense?

This would only account for people in the Fast Lane pre getting in line. Wait times will be increased due to people getting in line after someone get in line. I'm not against the Fast Lane pass in any way but I do not agree that the wait times are not affected.

But while it does not account for people who pass you in the FL after you're in line, think about people who used FL and rode before you got in line but who would have otherwise, without FL, still been in line ahead of you when you got in line. At first glance, those people, taken alone, should shorten your wait compared to no FL because they're no longer in line. Those people will likely be similar in number to the people who get in the FL after you enter the standby line and who, taken alone, lengthen your wait, and I would guess that those two factors cancel each other out nicely, leaving my previous explanation still valid.

That argument is the same as saying, if there were only one single line, to think about the people that rode at 10AM when I get into line at 5PM. They have already been through and forgotten about. Those rides would have went weather I was in line or not.

Anyone entering the FL post me getting into the standby line increases my wait by their ride.Basically the same as if I were waiting in line and decide to let someone in front of me to ride with their larger group. My wait time increases by 1 train cycle.

[Browntggrr]

Basically the same as if I were waiting in line and decide to let someone in front of me to ride with their larger group. My wait time increases by 1 train cycle.

You would have to let an entire train of people (i.e. 32 for Diamondback) for your wait to increase by 1 train.

Yet, none of us know how the system will work due to the park not being open yet. We could bring up every variable possible and still not cover everything.

[Diamondbacker]

All we can hope for is that some people are scared away by the high price of FL, so that not too many people buy it.

[KIfan73]

They could be scared away from coming to the park at all.

[kingsrattler]

^Which means shorter lines for me!

[KIfan73]

very true, better not go to Disney, Universial, Six Flags, Dollywood, CP, KI, goodness how many others?

I just read up on Six Flags' Flash Pass system, and it doesn't seem to offer near the access to rides as Fast Lane does.