Documentary concerning Seaworld ("Blackfish")

[Tanna]

I just requested it from my local library to see this. Want to know more about this film. Sent from my iPhone using Taptalk

It's good to see it, I think, though it's a bit confusing. It's available on Netflix and on other sundry internet means of viewing movies - ahoy. It says it's investigating an accident, but the topic is whales in captivity, particularly the whales at Seaworld.

I'd recommend seeing it to introduce yourself to modern documentary making.

It's designed to make you angry, and it's designed to play on your emotion. I recommend watching it it, and paying close attention to the visual cues as people are speaking. ( for example, the voiceover speaks of removing a calf from it's mother at four years old. There's a film clip showing a tiny little whale being moved to a medical pool. After poring through information, I'd found out that orcas at four are WAY bigger than the calf shown in the film, and are adults at four. The film clip had nothing to do with what they were saying.)

Now that the film is getting into more hands, and more are watching this and deconstructing it, more people are discussing the filmmaker's manipulation of sound, vision and editing.

Faeriewitch is right- a lot of the footages is swiped from other sources, one clip just pirated straight from another film about an orca. It's a collage of other people's footage glued together with heavily clipped interviews.

If you've seen "Room 237", a film allegedly about messages in Kubrick's "The Shining", the film is really not about a movie at all, but how various people deconstruct the methods of a filmmaker that can no longer refute them. I rec that movie too- you can see that people see what they WANT to see, to back their own beliefs, as evidently many are doing with "Blackfish".

[faeriewench]

Thank you! I am glad to hear someone is doing their own research. Most are not doing that. It baffles me beyond belief when someone calls the animals performing slaves and to free them all. Try to follow up that question with something along the lines of "how do you plan on enrichment to replace the shows?" and often times in response you just get a blank stare from that person and then they stammer again about how terrible the shows are and "free the whales!" Some people can not grasp that something like the "hula" behavior, as silly as it looks, takes many hours to train and many extra hours into refining it. That is many hours the animals are actually using their noggins and thinking about something else other then how they can eat the tank or get into something they should not like any curious animal. If people don't want shows then that is fine but completely taking away shows and the training for shows is a detriment to the animals. As pointed out, the shows are exercise and the training is mental stimulation, and if you don't want a show, then you better have a great idea as to how you are going to replace that mental and physical activity. Animals left to do their own thing allllll day long...we're talking bored animals that can get over 18 feet long, weigh in at several tons, and are obviously pretty smart. You would probably hear more stories of attacks taking place because they'd be bored outta their minds.

[Tanna]

The world is awash with animal psychics- who knew? Every topic is flooded with comments from people who 'know' what the whales are thinking, yet, none of them can tell me how my dog keeps spraining his ankle. They only psyche with whales, and only the ones that are in one particular theme park.

I sense there's a whale in the Icelandic ocean slightly disgruntled that the seal he was hunting got away. (I'm THAT good.)

Isn't the majority of the show based on the behaviors that they do anyway? That's why I like the trainers out of the water, it looks like the whales are telling them what to do, as the humans imitate the whale's behavior.

Sometimes I see videos of the trainer start to do a behavior, and the whale does what it wants to do, and the humans play along

I can't get a thirty pound Scottie to do what he doesn't want to do, I suspect if he were are large as my living room, I'd have a much more difficult time telling him what to do.

Added: one of the tips from a park site: "if you want to get splashed by Tilly, go to the early shows. He's a diva, and sometimes likes to take the afternoon off".

Because taking the afternoon off is what slaves do, I guess.

[faeriewench]

Majority of the behaviors, yes, mimic what they been observed doing in the wild. The bows, tail slaps, sideways breach, spyhop, zippers and the sliding out, all can be seen in the wild. Here are pictures some of them behaviors performed at SeaWorld that have been seen in the wild: (sorry there are multiple pictures)

The common bow

Kasatka by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

I'll tell ya'll a interesting story about this behavior. ^ Awhile back someone stumbled on a picture of 4 "wild" orcas doing a bow behavior side by side and in perfect unison...many people, myself included, thought for sure that picture was the work of photoshop. And also we figured the orcas in the picture were the orcas at Marineland Antibes in France that been photoshopped into the wild, because the only time everyone has ever actually seen the behavior performed in perfect unison like that have been at the parks. But sure enough...the picture was real.

The zipper

Ikaika by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

spyhop

Keet by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

a sideways breach

Kalia by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

tail slap

Corky by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

the slide out (but here with an extra kick, what he is doing here is referred to as the "thrash" slideout)

Keet by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

One of the best documented cases involving "slide out" in the wild is if you look up videos of the wild Argentine orca pods, in particular of the male named "Mel", some of that footage is fantastic of them sliding up on the beaches snagging sea lions.

On the topic of catching Tillikum a certain time of day....I can see that. Prior to the attack, Tillikum was a regular to just about every show. Immediately following the attack Tillikum was put on a hiatus and he remained backstage for several months, and finally went back to shows during the fall that year. From that moment on...Tillikum does what Tillikum wants, that includes whether or not he takes part in shows. For a good while after getting back to shows, he decided he had enough and refused to perform for a few months and reappeared again. He is a diva.

[Tanna]

There's a better documentary from National Geographic on Netflix that shows a whale sliding onto a beach, catching a seal, then shimmying off into the water. That documentary is where I got the idea that the shows are based on the way they normally behave, and how clever they are. They show wave washing, where, I think four? Whales team together to wash a seal off of a slab of ice.

They do seem clever, and I can see where they would need things to do in order not to be ornery. I've seen a lot of giant toys in the water. I don't know what would replace their show interactions. I don't even know what they would think of as a pod- maybe those two legged scrawny things alongside the tank are family. I'm not that SeaworldPsychic.

It helps to know the name of the behaviors. I thought a spyhop was when they jump up only slightly, then dive back into the water, like they were imitating a wave.

[faeriewench]

It helps to know the name of the behaviors. I thought a spyhop was when they jump up only slightly, then dive back into the water, like they were imitating a wave.

It is basically like that. Why they do, it allows them to be able to see their surroundings above water, so they do that even when not cued too. Same for tail slap. Tail slap tend to be a sign of multiple different things, mainly the animal is agitated and he/she is warning everyone around them that they are not in a good mood so they should stay away, other times they seem to do it to signal other pod members they found food (they also breach a lot when they find food too). I've seen captive mother orcas tail slap when they feel like the baby is threatened by the other pod members. That's why SW trainers tend to be selective who all is present in the tank with a newborn, like with Corky at the San Diego park, she just badly wants to mother something as she can be a bit over bearing so she is often the last to meet the babies.

[faeriewench]

She is doing a spyhop here with the extra of presenting her pec to the trainer to give you the "high five" (or hand shake lol) sometimes seen in shows.

Katina by ki_faerie_wench, on Flickr

[Tanna]

Amazing photos.

I don't want to give the movie any more clicks on Netflix, but it's occurred to me to watch once without the sound, and once without the video, I think I'd get three different movies. I'd just thought of that while perusing the news, alongside the article, there was a trailer from the film playing, it looks so sweet and fluffy, just a trainer and his orca, though I know a 911 call is playing over this particular scene when the audio is turned up. Now I wonder where that underwater footage came from.

(I find it a little creepy that I get ads based on past searches, anyway.)

Seaworld's Blog is allowing comments, no matter how capitalized, to stay put. I think it's good business sense, especially as half of them openly hope to be blocked. There are no comments on the blog posts announcing a harbor seal saved, or a loggerhead turtle being released- selective outrage.

The tail slapping as a 'go away' message would mean that the whales also get moody and agitated in the wild, too, and not just in aquariums.

(this is amazing me.)

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1232224/kalia-seaworld-o.gif

[XGatorHead 8904]

Looking at faeriewench's photos have made me realize it's been way too long since I've been to Sea World. I haven't been since the early '80s as a kid. I tried to convince Mrs. Gator a few years ago that we should go there, but she likened it to Newport Aquarium. I told her it was much more than that, but to no avail. Now that GatorGirl is older the two of us can gang up on her to convince her, or at least outvote her 2 to 1.

[TTD-120-420]

Depending on when you guys are planning on going I could get you free tickets, or at least discounted tickets.

[XGatorHead 8904]

No plans for Florida this year, but thanks!

[Tanna]

Depending on when you guys are planning on going I could get you free tickets, or at least discounted tickets.

I'm a graphic artist, it'll take saving many Jars o' Coins. Thank you for the offer - not sure when I can go, but it'll be a little while.

I'm shaking down my nieces and nephews for Coke bottle lids as for now, for the Coke Rewards contest.

The photos are great, it looks like a great clean park. I've been reading articles and blogs on it, from what I hear now, (in between the comments from the Madam Zorbas that 'know for a fact' the whales are unhappy, --the other animals, eh- who cares)- is that the parks are packed, all shows are filled, and the "Shamu Up Close" show is amazing.

The Shamu Up Close show is only for a limited time, but I'm hoping that it might be possible that they keep it a little longer than they need to.

[faeriewench]

(in between the comments from the Madam Zorbas that 'know for a fact' the whales are unhappy, --the other animals, eh- who cares)-

This! This is one of my issues with the situation. Why orcas and orcas alone? What is so special about them? What about elephants? tigers? Y'know they killed far more zookeepers than the orcas have their trainers and no one says a word. Same with OSHA. They did little to nothing with elephant/cat attacks and yet they breathe down the necks of the folks at SeaWorld. Compared to a lot, if not most, animals at zoos, the SeaWorld orcas and dolphins got it made if you really think about it.

I always worry for the big cats...

[Tanna]

The director made the lazy mistake of swiping WAY too much footage of Seaworld. I saw the stuffed animal cart and thought, "I want one."

And then she used footage of the shows, and I thought, "I want to see that." That's the impetus behind my original post- I was supposed to hate this park, but it sparked a quest to find out more about it, and a desire to go to the park.

She also made the mistake of having a lot of footage of a former trainer with "snake eyes", where neither lid of the eye touches the iris. Like it or not, there's a natural tendency not to trust someone with snake eyes, because people who are histrionic tend to bulge their eyes when telling a story. There were people being interviewed that I did not want to know. The talking sections were like sitting in a seedy bar.

Biggest mistake is footage of the viewing window, or walkthrough tank, as I call it. The orcas have no means of getting a reward, they are smart animals, they know no fish is coming, and yet, they are actively interacting with humans. It kind of ruined her 'slave' angle.

You'd think with all of the tourists with video cameras, there'd be more footage of whales being sullen, but there's not. There's footage of Tillikum being still, with the voiceover of "He's been like that for three hours."

Lady? You sat there watching a whale sleep for three hours, and you say the whales don't have a life?

Madam Zorba only reads whales because they are cute and guileless looking, due to their jaws looking like they are smiling. Which doesn't explain why she doesn't read dolphins, who also look like they are smiling. I suspect Madam Zorba is just envious that she can't have a whale of her own.

[jcgoble3]

Madam Zorba only reads whales because they are cute and guileless looking, due to their jaws looking like they are smiling. Which doesn't explain why she doesn't read dolphins, who also look like they are smiling. I suspect Madam Zorba is just envious that she can't have a whale of her own.

I wonder if it would interest her to know that 1) dolphins ARE whales (more specifically, a subset of whales), and 2) killer whales, AKA orcas, are a species of dolphin.

[faeriewench]

I actually tried watching it again recently and one of my main problems with it is still the way the interview clips are ordered and presented. You get *Completely reasonable statement from Trainer A*, *Completely reasonable statement from Trainer B*, *Totally WTF statement by Trainer C*, *Another reasonable statement from Trainer B*, then *Subjective and emotional statement by Who The #$% Is This Guy?*. It goes on like as far as I am concerned. Oh, and those with the most sensational things to say were also given a whole lot more screen time.

[Tanna]

I suspect Trainer C is Snake Eyes: according to her, if you buy a ticket to the park, you might be shang-hied, forced to don a wetsuit, and tossed into the whale tank, no experience required.
The movie is just a dramatization of "Death at Seaworld." Minus Naomi Rose rightiously shaking her head at whatever else anyone, no matter their experise, says. Naomi knows all, and she's ever so winsome.
Even the chapter about the naked druggie depicts him as the Dali Llama.

(In the news, a Whalewatch tour boat captain, Nancy Black, got fined for feeding whales on the tour. It's okay to train ocean orcas to get dangerously close to boats, but it's not okay to take your kid to go see one up close.)

Edited to ask:

Several photos show the orcas mouth open, and I see a lot of pictures with the several orcas at the tank with their mouths open, so it's not like the trainers can pick and choose which orca smiles.

Your photos don't look retouched.

Shamu Up Close allows the patrons to be only six feet away behind a Plexiglas panel. Any dentist or vet can see into their mouths.

When I look at these photos, the teeth are all conical, of even length, and, as when they smile you can see all of their teeth, all there.

The former trainers in the film say the orcas teeth are drilled full of holes and broken. There's no other reconciliation for what they are saying vs. what I'm seeing in photos.

They don't cap the orcas teeth do they?

[faeriewench]

The tail slapping as a 'go away' message would mean that the whales also get moody and agitated in the wild, too, and not just in aquariums.

Oh yes, they tail slap a lot in the wild and they do go after each other if agitated, quite a few have the scratches and rakes on their bodies to prove it. It's not exclusive to captivity.

Some of the other behaviors performed with the orcas (corkscrews, triple corkscrews, hula, hydro etc), part of me would much rather not be done but I do, unlike some, respect the amount of work put into them. One of those such behaviors has not been seen performed with the orcas since the day before the attack happened and that be the "Rocket Hop". Nearly all the behaviors they did that resembled "circus acts" have been long phased out since the Ohio park closed. (tho the Texas park still has the set up with the target ball but it is very seldom performed). The San Diego park tend to be the more "innovative" one with behaviors, as they come up with something new every once in awhile. There's one impressive "group behavior" that is done only there at that park occasionally, it took a long time to train it and I don't even remember the name, lol. (go figure lol)

[Tanna]

I had to look up Rocket Hop on Youtube, and lo, it's the same film clip on Youtube that I described in an earlier posts as cute and fluffy man and his orca. Frankly, to see how far down in the water humans have to go to do that stunt, it hurts my sinuses to watch it.

Some people already have "Shamu Up Close" videos, and they aren't kidding by close.The patrons stand behind a safety partition, but close. People are getting breathed on.

That, and "Dine with Shamu" seem more my speed, but videos of the nighttime shows look really boss.

[faeriewench]

Source: http://www.takepart.com/article/2014/01/16/oscar-snubs-blackfish-films-anti-captivity-message-will-live

Fans and orca advocates are expressing shock and dismay that the documentary about killer whales in captivity—and three-time killer Tilikum in particular—did not make the final cut of five nominees for best documentary feature.

Good.

[Tanna]

I think the public's access to YouTube might have clued people on exactly how the film was made. There was a time when the Oscars meant 'excellence in film making" and not just what was popular at the second. Hopefully. this decision reflects a return to actual excellent films.

Me, I'm thinking of a Kickstarter campaign on how to make documentaries. I'm gonna sit on my butt, use clips that others have made, interview a batch of big-headed, bug-eyed people that have perused Youtube once or twice, and make a documentary entitled, "How to Make a Documentary Without Having to Leave One's Desk." Now I have to think of a way to make it harpy and outrageous, with a Morris Moss 'duh-duh-DUH!" soundtrack.

(Speaking of Morris Moss and the IT Crowd- that man I married thinks he'll find me one day making a model of a 'Seapark' out of mashed potatoes.)

It kills me that the people she interviewed actually paid for their own trips and boarding to be interviewed.

[shark6495]

The thing that upsets me the most about this documentary is the public's outcry over it. There are documentaries out there that talk about how the oil companies and big automotive companies are actively buying patents for fast charging electric cars that are comparable to the Camaro and it does not get this same out cry. There are documentaries describing the poor living conditions and the unfairness of the poor/rich in our society and not many speak out. You have politicians who are actively being supported by companies who influence business and the documentaries that show this are ignored. Not to mention the many many documentaries describing poor conditions in other countries.

Whats worse is the main media news does not devote time to these stories but instead broadcasts this documentary on prime time and then invites specialists to debate this topic.

If you ask people what is important in the news right now odds are most will mention the devil baby prank, the "whale that kills people at Sea World," and Target Data breach.... no mention on the continuing unsureness of the middle east, the every present problem that we have a Gross National Debt equal to about 70% of our income, or the fact that politicians are working to divide us versus bring us together....

/rant....

[shark6495]

Sorry for the double post...

Decided to finally sit down and watch this documentary. I am about 30 minutes into it.

Initial thoughts: This is a well done documentary, even if you dont like the message. Not sure if I feel its anti-Sea World or just saying its informative... at this point....

Currently, they just spoke about Tillicum's incident at Sea Land...

I'll just edit this as I go....

The documentary does raise a few questions that I wish Sea World would have answered for example: separation and mixing of family pods? purchase of aggressive whales? Tilicum being used as a breeding whale even if he had a history of aggression?

I really get the feel that the trainers love these whales. No doubt about it. However, they have a few questions about the way the company goes about their business..,.

The more I watch this, the more upset I am that Sea World answered this documentary with a press release on their website.

I dont feel that this documentary is ever saying that Sea World is all bad. But it does raise some basic questions about park safety and whale usage... These questions are fair to bring up, but they could have totally been answered by a quick and good response by Sea World...

Sure Ill have more to say as the last 30 minutes show up...

EDITED AGAIN:

Here is my amateur thought (I am not a whale expert nor am I a trainer, but I do know human tendencies), if these animals rake or bite each other when they are upset, why wouldnt they do that to a trainer? This would look very aggressive because the whale is 6 tons and a human weighs 150? If I am upset with a person I would get into a fight, maybe punch or kick. If I punch or kick someone my size it doesnt look like much. However, if I were to punch or kick a little kid then it would look like an aggressive move.

I think there are calculated risks everyone has at their job for an accident and a possible life threatening accident. Should humans be in a pool with whales doing tricks? Maybe not. Should Sea World go away? Probably not. SW does do good things for the mammal world. As we learn more about these animals the way we do things now will look barbaric. Just like the video from the 70s of the trainer in a bikini riding a whale looks silly.

Orcas do get bored. No Doubt. But you cant just take these whales and release them. But how cool would it be to visit a Sea World park that has a huge open water pen. You can view Orcas there. That would be cool. Zoos have done similar changes. Look at the reptile building at the Cincy Zoo. It was the former Ape house. We learn and change as a society.

I do think the over all tone of the film is anti-captivity. But it is well done. I didnt walk away hating SW. I do have some questions I want to see SW answer. But will this keep me out of the park? I cant say it would. I plan on going to Orlando in 2015 and would like to visit SW when I am there. It would be nice for SW to answer a few questions raised by the film though...

EDITED: Thanks terp... but I think I only had one incidence of non-cap SW or Sea World

[The Interpreter]

SeaWorld (and Sea World) and related service marks are registered trademarks and service marks of Sea World LLC Limited Liability Company Delaware. As such, word forms of the marks are always capitalized.

[Tanna]

Shark,

Did you find that you wanted to go to the park? I'd like to think I wasn't the only one that went off message.

I think the outrage over a relatively small number of captive whales is due the 'baby steps' method some activists use.

There are so many cars, so many poor, and so many crooked politicians out there, and trouble in the middle east seems to go on forever.

PETA can't demand we let all of our pets go, there's too many of us, and we like our pets.

If a group of activists succeed in freeing this small number of whales, they can use this success to proceed to the next step in animal freedom.

The Shamu Stadium redo must have been in the works for a long time, it seems more by chance than design that the Seaworld is answering some of the questions brought up with their "Shamu Up Close" show. Videos are showing the trainers using a giant WaterPik to brush the orcas' teeth right in front of an close audience. I didn't get to see all what happened, because I have to rely on park guests' videos. The show seems to present what trainers do every day to take of the whales in their care. (And I, too, wish to see this Up Close.)

[shark6495]

I didn't find myself wanting to go more or less. I found myself actually Googling the number of Orca vs People incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale_attacks_on_humans

But I can see how the video of the beautiful animals could make people want to go to the park more often. But I wont lie. I forgot about SW until this documentary was released. So I guess in a way it did

[The Interpreter]

Google wouldn't want its trademark used as a verb. We allmost all do it. Probably should be capitalized. Not unlike I Xeroxed it. Sort of.

[shark6495]

If you don't defend your name it will become common place... At one time Zipper, Aspirin, and Escalator were all trademarked....

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/british/google

http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/google-doesnt-want-people-using-google-as-a-verb/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Tanna]

I didnt find myself wanting to go more or less. I found myself actually googling the number of Orca vs People incidents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_whale_attacks_on_humans

But I can see how the video of the beautiful animals could make people want to go to the park more often. But I wont lie. I forgot about SW until this documentary was released. So I guess in a way it did

I did, too. I forgot all about Seaworld until I saw this. Then I watched a copy of "Namu", the movie I watched as a kid that ushered my fascination for orcas. The activists lost me at the Seaworld Website, seeing all the rehab videos.

[faeriewench]

In late July 2004, during a show at the SeaWorld park in San Antonio, Texas, a male orca named Kyuquot (nickname Ky) repeatedly jumped on top of his trainer, Steve Aibel, forcing him underwater and barred the trainer from escaping the water. After several minutes the trainer was able to calm the animal and he exited the pool unhurt.^[50] "Veterinarians believe the whale... felt threatened by the trainer, perhaps a result of the effects of adolescent hormones."

I actually don't completely buy the adolescent hormones bit, even though males do get real mouthy as they go through that stage and are hard to work with (this goes for any any animal really), but in this case the Texas pod underwent many changes at the time (several new orcas moving in) and Ky clearly didn't want his trainer leaving him. Not once he opened his mouth, (when they open their mouth and/or jaw pop that is usually a sign of aggression) just prevented Steve from exiting the pool.

Another thing about Tillikum, (and finally its been brought up in some articles) is that he is very possessive with his toys as in he tends to be a bit leery with returning them. Him and the females he lived with at SeaLand were not treated all that well and Tillikum didn't like his toys being taken away. He has never and will never be a "water work" whale and once Dawn was in the water, she probably became more of a novelty object rather than human. It is something to think about. Once the trainers began to freak out around him, it freaked him out too and he kept Dawn to himself.